The US buys more of the Russian Empire

Super_Cool

The U.S. only bought the North American territory of Russia. What if Seward paid a bit more money and took parts of the Russian Far East? I can't see much more, but perhaps the Kamchatka Peninsula and the lands above that.

How would this affect history?
 

Leistungsfähiger Amerikan

My first question is were they selling that land?

Assuming they were, the Russian Revolution jumps to mind. I'm not sure how happy the US would be with Reds right next door, and while I'm not sure how advanced Alaska was in 1918(and, in ATL, American far-east), I think the US would send enough troops to ensure Russia remains White.

I think this would give Japan even more reason to attack the US then OTL also.
 

Atom

The first hurdle is that the Russians didn't want to sell anymore then they did/. You'd have to get them in more desperate straits as your first POD.
 

kuzux

Kamchatka and Chukotka were offered for sale,too IIRC. Since they were almost unaccessible from anywhere else, having reds in russia with american kamchatka wouldn't be much different than having reds in russia with american alaska
 

Faeelin

Banned
Leej said:
Rule no 13 of AH: Nations aren't lining up to sell all their land to the US.
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Louisiana, Alaska, Santo Domingo, arguably Sonora, the Yucatan. All areas that the US purchased, could have purchased, or could have bought through coopting local elites.
 

Orioes

Faeelin said:
Louisiana, Alaska, Santo Domingo, arguably Sonora, the Yucatan. All areas that the US purchased, could have purchased, or could have bought through coopting local elites.
Click to expand...
I guess today's lesson is "Just because it is incredibly cliche doesn't make it unreasonable or ASB" ;). On the OP I don't think much will change as Kamchatka and Chukotka were and to an extent remain on the far side of the world from the centers of industrial civilization. If Japan and the USA come to blows ITTL it could serve as a launch point for a Doolittle Raid or a minor theater of the war a la the Aleutian Islands IOTL. I don't think it will have any noticible effect on USA/RE-USSR relations as it is just too far from their major population centers.
 

Geekhis Khan

Well, according to Jeeves Chuk and Kammy apparently have notable oil/gas and mineral deposits if you can get to them. Might be another "Seward's Folly" ugly duckling that turns out to be one hell of an economic boon.

Were they really offered for sale? Anyone have a site?
 

David S Poepoe

Banned
Faeelin said:
Louisiana, Alaska, Santo Domingo, arguably Sonora, the Yucatan. All areas that the US purchased, could have purchased, or could have bought through coopting local elites.
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You seem to have forgotten about all the land west of Cape Cod. If the local elites, and others, were not coopted they were eradicated.

I've got to admit that this is tremendously unlikely. Also why would the US buy any territory outside the Western Hemisphere?
 

Cicero the Younger

David S Poepoe said:
Also why would the US buy any territory outside the Western Hemisphere?
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Why shouldn't we? Even leaving aside the westernmost portion of the Aleutian chain, which could be dismissed as having simply come with Alaska, that still leaves Wake Island, the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, and the Philippines as land "outside the Western Hemisphere" which either belong to or have belonged to the United States.
 

David S Poepoe

Banned
Cicero the Younger said:
Why shouldn't we? Even leaving aside the westernmost portion of the Aleutian chain, which could be dismissed as having simply come with Alaska, that still leaves Wake Island, the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, and the Philippines as land "outside the Western Hemisphere" which either belong to or have belonged to the United States.
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We didn't buy them. Wake and Midway were annexed by the US and their gooney bird citizenry paid no attention. The rest were conquests by war.
 

cabbit

To get back to the topic of how this will affect history I'll give it a go.

1860s: The Russian Empire is in a difficult financial position. So the tsar decides to sell Russian Alaska, Chutkoka, Magadan and Kamchatka to the Americans for the sum of about $14 million dollars in 1867. (Used new map area as was called something else but its easier to show what it looks like so see link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia

1870s-1880s: The Territories of Alaska, and Kamchatka are founded. There is some settlement but not much.

1890s: Gold is discovered in Alaska , Alaskan/Klondike gold rush begins. Some go looking for gold in Kamchatka, but due to an even more hostile climate very little is found, but it does bring settlement to region, not as much as to the Alaskan Territory but again some, US navy builds small port in southern Kamchatka as a coaling station and increase American presence in the region.

Spanish -American war starts with a port in Kamchatka US Asiatic Fleet is better coaled, victory in Philippines goes about the same as OTL .

1900s: (to be fill out with interesting things)

1917: Russia Revolution happens, US aid to white forces is sent thru Kamchatka. (and its getting late so I'll stop for now)

I'll flush it out some more later. But its a start, oh and Hey Cicero. So anyone have anything to add?
 
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Big Tex

Cicero the Younger said:
So what's the difference? Why would we be willing to conquer land in the eastern hemisphere, yet refuse to buy any there?
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small pacific islands with little or no population weer justified as coaling stations and naval bases, it made sense to maintain them and no one else was going to pitch a fit. The US was never intended to be in the Philippines as long as it was contrary to popular belief.

In reality the "American Empire" was really an accident maintained through a series of political potholes and inopportune events that occured next to military intervention intended to keep the Panama Canal and its shipping routes secure.
 

False Dmitri

cabbit said:
To get back to the topic of how this will affect history I'll give it a go.

1860s: The Russian Empire is in a difficult financial position. So the tsar decides to sell Russian Alaska, Chutkoka, Magadan and Kamchatka to the Americans for the sum of about $14 million dollars in 1867. (Used new map area as was called something else but its easier to show what it looks like so see link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia

1870s-1880s: The Territories of Alaska, and Kamchatka are founded. There is some settlement but not much.

1890s: Gold is discovered in Alaska , Alaskan/Klondike gold rush begins. Some go looking for gold in Kamchatka, but due to an even more hostile climate very little is found, but it does bring settlement to region, not as much as to the Alaskan Territory but again some, US navy builds small port in southern Kamchatka as a coaling station and increase American presence in the region.

Spanish -American war starts with a port in Kamchatka US Asiatic Fleet is better coaled, victory in Philippines goes about the same as OTL .

1900s: (to be fill out with interesting things)

1917: Russia Revolution happens, US aid to white forces is sent thru Kamchatka. (and its getting late so I'll stop for now)

I'll flush it out some more later. But its a start, oh and Hey Cicero. So anyone have anything to add?
Click to expand...

I like this. Geopolitically, it will make for some interesting times.

One butterfly you may have missed is the situation in China c. 1900 - the age of the Boxer Rebellion, the Treaty Ports, and the Spheres of Influence. OTL, the US pushed for the "open door" policy, largely because it was not in a solid position to hold onto a sphere of influence. With a base in mainland Asia, the US may have sought a European-style sphere in China.

In 1917, maybe the US brings its troops home from Europe but concentrates on attacking the Far Eastern SSR. This could mean a quicker failure by the British troops aiding the Whites in western Russia, but US forces could stand a chance in the Far East. They couldn't afford a sustained occupation, but perhaps they are able to set up an anti-Bolshevik rump state. Doubtless the USSR will turn on it once it shores up power in the west, but by then the Republic of the Russian Far East could have acquired diplomatic recognition by various Western nations.
 
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