This is the poll to end all polls concerning this subject, and to consolidate all opinions on these various polities.
Vote for as many options as you think are appropriate.
Vote for as many options as you think are appropriate.
The Ultimate "Continuations of the Roman Empire" Poll
- Thread starter Tom Colton
- Start date
Apologies: Byzantine Empire should read (330/395) and not (313/395).
And if anyone wants evidence of philibyzantism on this forum, it briefly was winning against the Dominate.
And if anyone wants evidence of philibyzantism on this forum, it briefly was winning against the Dominate.
You're missing a few different polities if you're casting a net wide enough to include Russia and San Marino. Venice and the Papal States come to mind.
Skallagrim
Banned
I'd say the so-called Byzantine Empire is a continuation. But some would consider that to be, well... since it's the Eastern Roman Empire... to actually be the Roman Empire. Not a "continuation". That's how I feel about the Dominate, for sure. That's not some "sequel"; that's the real thing!
As for the Byzantine Empire: I'd say that remained the Roman Empire until the reign of Heraclius, who introduced Greek as official language. I'd say it was the Roman Empire until his reign (610 to 641), and only then became an ever more Hellenised quasi-successor state: a continuation.
As for the Byzantine Empire: I'd say that remained the Roman Empire until the reign of Heraclius, who introduced Greek as official language. I'd say it was the Roman Empire until his reign (610 to 641), and only then became an ever more Hellenised quasi-successor state: a continuation.
Deleted member 93645
From this post alone I can tell this thread is going to last 25 pages.
Deleted member 93645
I'm referring to the other thread about the Byzantines. The debate over Greek and Latin lasted all 22 pages.
spendabuck
Banned
I feel like some other potential nations could be on this list; primarily some of the Byzantine successor states such as Trebizond and Nicaea as well as (possibly, I'm not sure if they claimed to be successors to Rome) the Latin Empire.
There's also the case that Francia and the Merovingians have a better claim to status of successors than the Carolingians.
Apologies: Byzantine Empire should read (330/395) and not (313/395).
And if anyone wants evidence of philibyzantism on this forum, it briefly was winning against the Dominate.
It is again, by 21 votes to 18.
That's pretty much view, as well. The Eastern Roman Empire outlived its Western brother and lasted until the mid-seventh century. After that, the massive restructuring caused by the Muslim conquests means that the entity that survived should probably be considered one of the Roman Empire's successor states.
I mentally filed the despotates under the Byzantines, and the Latin Empire almost definitely doesn't count. But if more people want them, I'm fine for it.
Do we have to have this argument for the 3rd time in as many threads about how Greek and Roman were completely interchangeable and how Rome had effectively been a bilingual empire since the second century BC?
Rightfully so, since the Ostrogoths made sure to distinguish themselves from the native populace, and in any case were technically subservient to the Roman Emperor in Constantinople.
Red Orm
Banned
You mean the people who were subjugated and mainly used as educated slaves, the source of provincial tax income, and the playthings of abusive governors were the same as the Romans who ruled them? I see it, makes sense. I don't know about effectively bilingual empire, considering that only the top one or two census classes could afford slaves to teach their children Greek.
So, what you're saying is, they were de jure a...dare I say it...continuation of their authority there?
The Latin Empire would IMO be a much more serious contender than the Russians or the Ottomans, who are both on the poll. That said, I'm not sure it would actually get any votes (mine or anyone else's), so...
The only class that mattered in the Roman Empire was the governing and equestrian class. In this respect, almost all of them learned Greek, and in any case, all Roman administrators in the east from the time of Augustus on were required to be fluent in Greek. We just had this discussion with Lee Sensei on the previous thread on this, so if you want to see the arguments, go there. I don't want to have this debate for the third thread in a row.