The State of Nova Scotia
- Thread starter Lyly
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!!Double-bump!!
BTW, Dan, I read the SRC site too, and when I get the chance to get to the library, I watch the webcast of the TJ
Me too!
(though, in my case, I'd be looking for the "Ottawa-Outaouais"/"Ottawa-Gatineau" version)In early 1791, a bill known as the Territorial Act was passed in the House of Delegates, but failed to pass in the House of Representatives. The bill, which would have created two new territories out of land claimed by Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia, and Canada. The House of Delegates went to the Supreme Tribunal, claiming that because Delegates are selected by state legislatures, the house demonstrates the will of the states at the national level. The affair, known as the House Equality Debate or the Territorial Affair, went on for months as the Supreme Tribunal deliberated and developed into what is called the. The argument was further complicated by the fact that Vermont, a newly admitted state, had representation in the House of Delegates, but there were no Representatives elected from Vermont. Because of the way Representatives were elected, it would prove impractical to host elections again to include Vermont. Arguably, this situation gave Vermont and it's citizens less representation that states admitted before it. Finally, in late July, the Supreme Tribunal ruled with the House of Delegates, stating that because the people of Vermont held no representation in the House of Representatives, it's decisions since the admission of the state could not be said to be democratic. Speaker Madison suspended the session of the House of Representatives for the rest of the term. Meanwhile, the Supreme Tribunal ordered that the remaining House of Delegates create a special committee to amend the Constitution to fix the House of Representatives. In the absence of the House of Representatives, the House of Delegates argued that any bill passed in it's chamber was made law, thus the Territorial Act was enforced.
Immediately, the states of Virginia and Canada objected and refused to accept the law. Sensing the developing crisis, President Washington refused to enforce the Territorial Act. Again appealing to the Supreme Tribunal, the House of Delegates sued that the Territorial Act must be enforced. The Supreme Tribunal's judgment carefully avoided the matter of the President's refusal to enforce the law, instead arguing that the law still had to pass two houses. Reforming the House of Representatives was to be the House of Delegates primary task, no bills were to be debated until the matter was settled.
Finally, on August 11th, John Jay returned to the Supreme Tribunal with the proposal to divide the nation into districts which a single Representative would represent. The former allotment ritual was done away with, instead having the citizens of a district directly electing a Representative. After being endorsed by Representative Speaker James Madison, the Supreme Tribunal approved and the proposed amendment was sent to the States on the 19th, the technicality that a congressionally proposed amendment had to pass both house was avoided by considering the House of Delegates a National Convention.
The entire affair, consisting of many constitutional crises occurring simultaneously, became known as the Crisis of 1791. Notably, the crisis marked the first step in defining the Supreme Tribunal's role in the government as the interpreter and judge of the Constitution.
The new amendment faced little opposition from State legislatures and was ratified quickly, New Jersey being the first to ratify, followed shortly by Vermont and others. By November, 11 states had ratified, enough to implement the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
1791
March 4- Vermont is admitted as the 16th state.
April 8- The Territorial Act fails to pass in the House of Representatives, the Crisis of 1791 begins.
July 23- The Supreme Tribunal argues that the House of Representatives is unrepresentative and orders that the Constitution be amended.
July 24- The session of the House of Representatives is suspended. The Territorial Act creates the Southwest Territory and the Ontario Territory.
July 28- President Washington refuses to enforce the Territorial Act.
August 2- The Supreme Tribunal dismisses the claim that the President must enforce the Territorial Act.
August 11- The House of Delegates presents a plan to reform the House of Representatives to the Supreme Tribunal.
August 19- A proposed Second Amendment is sent to the States for ratification.
August 30- New Jersey becomes the first state to ratify the Second Amendment
September 2- Vermont ratifies.
September 3- Pennsylvania ratifies.
September 7- Maryland ratifies
September 9- North Carolina, Connecticut, and Delaware ratify.
September 14- Georgia ratifies.
September 15- Virginia ratifies.
September 23- Massachusetts ratifies.
September 28- New York becomes the 11th state to ratify. With 3/4 of the States ratifying, the Second Amendment is implemented.
November 2- Nova Scotia ratifies.
November 4- Rhode Island ratifies.
November 5- Plans are made for Representative elections to be held March 14, 1792.
November 6- New Hampshire ratifies.
November 9- South Carolina ratifies.
November 21- Canada ratifies.
Fun Facts:
- Why did it take so long for Canada to ratify the amendment? In this period, cars or even trains did not yet exist and the only way to travel quickly was by horse. It could take up to a month or more to reach some parts of the United States. Canada did not receive a draft of the amendment until early November.
- Did you know? When the delegates from South Carolina arrived back in Charleston, it was discovered that they were not carrying a copy of the amendment. Another draft had to be sent for and rewritten, delaying South Carolina's ratification for a significant amount of time.
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Yay! I've rewritten the last entry for The State of Nova Scotia in a way that both allows the story to continue and, I believe, makes more sense that before. I also added a Fun Facts section at the end. I plan on actually continuing this TL this time, so I hope you guys enjoy!
Now though, I have to draw a map of the new districts... yuck.
I think it'll be interesting to see how the Supreme Tribunal exercises it's powers from here on, having basically created a drive to rewrite the Constitution on it's own and somewhat pushing the Congress around to do what it wanted. Also note that the question of whether Washington was right to have ignored the wishes of Congress in not executing the law was not answered, leaving a loophole open for future Presidents. What fun!
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Nice that you've managed to salvage the situation. It actually raises separate consequences for TTL's USA: a major, substantive change to the workings of the constitution (due to a constitutional crisis) is probably going to make future changes more likely and alter the perception of "constitutionality" in American political culture and jurisprudence.
Couple of questions from a new poster so playing catch-up:
What is the status of the Acadian's in your timeline...are they still deported as in OTL or have they remained as a potential force following the French and Indian wars.
Does the population numbers given take into account native tribes? Most reports do not but both the French and British used native irregulars to assist them...primarily the 5 nation Iroquis Confederation and the Huron tribes in Canada.
Loss of much the current New Bruinswick and Nova Scotia provincies in OTL would lead to a shortage of spars and masts in the Halifax depot. Some trees in Canada still show the Crown's mark due to their potential use as masts and this part of Canada was just being developed for ship and lumber supplies.
One of the books I read on the American Revolution looked at the home towns of the troops who fought on both sides...interestingly the enlistments from North American borne troops were about equal. The authors comment was that British troops however were more aggresive in pillaging communties for food supplies and it was this harsher treatment that meant the Continential Army was able to recieve supplies from locals even though the British had better finanical support. http://www.amazon.ca/Redcoats-Rebels-Christopher-Hibbert/dp/0393322939
Interesting line so far
What is the status of the Acadian's in your timeline...are they still deported as in OTL or have they remained as a potential force following the French and Indian wars.
Does the population numbers given take into account native tribes? Most reports do not but both the French and British used native irregulars to assist them...primarily the 5 nation Iroquis Confederation and the Huron tribes in Canada.
Loss of much the current New Bruinswick and Nova Scotia provincies in OTL would lead to a shortage of spars and masts in the Halifax depot. Some trees in Canada still show the Crown's mark due to their potential use as masts and this part of Canada was just being developed for ship and lumber supplies.
One of the books I read on the American Revolution looked at the home towns of the troops who fought on both sides...interestingly the enlistments from North American borne troops were about equal. The authors comment was that British troops however were more aggresive in pillaging communties for food supplies and it was this harsher treatment that meant the Continential Army was able to recieve supplies from locals even though the British had better finanical support. http://www.amazon.ca/Redcoats-Rebels-Christopher-Hibbert/dp/0393322939
Interesting line so far
Around the World
A summary of the history affected by the early United States since Independence.
While a young United States was busy piecing itself together, the rest of the world was not standing idle.
For Great Britain, a reassessment of the role of colonies in the British Empire was underway, spurred by the loss of the most populous colonies in the Empire. Notably, the prevailing idea that political control was needed for economic success came under attack. Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations had been published and provoked new questions concerning the British Empire's traditional operation.
After evidence of the viability of a penal colony in Botany Bay in the newly discovered New South Wales was presented to Parliament in 1778, convicts were sent to the new continent, the first shipment arriving in 1787, laying the foundation for new colonies in the Pacific.
In France, America's independence influenced a much larger reassessment of society. Following the assembly of the Estates-General in 1789, a popular revolution was sparked in France. Initially, at least, partly inspired by the American Revolution, the French Revolution quickly overturned France as a whole. Attitudes and opinions became trends and France's government went through changes virtually with seasons.
By 1791, France was a Constitutional Monarchy, but throughout the year, a crisis developed and the temporarily calmed Revolution was set to erupt once more early the next year.
France's largest colony in the America's, Saint-Dominigue, saw a slave revolt in 1791. Inspired by the French Revolution, politics in France's largest Caribbean colony took as many turns and became as complex as those in Paris or Versailles. Within ten days in August, 1791, slaves had revolted and, by 1792, had taken control of a full third of the colony.
The Netherlands, by 1792, were on the verge of a popular revolution similar to that of France and one with a much earlier catalyst. The Dutch were an early supporter of the American Revolution, and in 1782, in the midst of a war with Britain, became one of the first nations to recognize the United States. At war's end, in 1784, the Dutch Republic's instability became painfully obvious as Dutch patriots became increasingly outspoken in their demands for democracy and honest government.
Through much of the rest of Europe, news of the American Revolution was met with both celebration and fear. The politics of Europe were recognizably changing and in just a few years would be radically altered from before the Revolutionary War.
A summary of the history affected by the early United States since Independence.
While a young United States was busy piecing itself together, the rest of the world was not standing idle.
For Great Britain, a reassessment of the role of colonies in the British Empire was underway, spurred by the loss of the most populous colonies in the Empire. Notably, the prevailing idea that political control was needed for economic success came under attack. Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations had been published and provoked new questions concerning the British Empire's traditional operation.
After evidence of the viability of a penal colony in Botany Bay in the newly discovered New South Wales was presented to Parliament in 1778, convicts were sent to the new continent, the first shipment arriving in 1787, laying the foundation for new colonies in the Pacific.
In France, America's independence influenced a much larger reassessment of society. Following the assembly of the Estates-General in 1789, a popular revolution was sparked in France. Initially, at least, partly inspired by the American Revolution, the French Revolution quickly overturned France as a whole. Attitudes and opinions became trends and France's government went through changes virtually with seasons.
By 1791, France was a Constitutional Monarchy, but throughout the year, a crisis developed and the temporarily calmed Revolution was set to erupt once more early the next year.
France's largest colony in the America's, Saint-Dominigue, saw a slave revolt in 1791. Inspired by the French Revolution, politics in France's largest Caribbean colony took as many turns and became as complex as those in Paris or Versailles. Within ten days in August, 1791, slaves had revolted and, by 1792, had taken control of a full third of the colony.
The Netherlands, by 1792, were on the verge of a popular revolution similar to that of France and one with a much earlier catalyst. The Dutch were an early supporter of the American Revolution, and in 1782, in the midst of a war with Britain, became one of the first nations to recognize the United States. At war's end, in 1784, the Dutch Republic's instability became painfully obvious as Dutch patriots became increasingly outspoken in their demands for democracy and honest government.
Through much of the rest of Europe, news of the American Revolution was met with both celebration and fear. The politics of Europe were recognizably changing and in just a few years would be radically altered from before the Revolutionary War.
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Spot on, things are going to be very different (and very fun) from now on. Also, the Supreme Tribunal may have established a very important and influential precedent in the extent and result of it's interpretation of the Constitution.
Same thing as in OTL, they were mostly deported in the 1750's and 60's. The PoD for this TL doesn't go that far back.
That's a question that I really can't answer. I got my numbers from at least 3 different sources, so it really depends on where they got their numbers and who originally counted that up. Theoretically, Native Americans should not be counted, as in the United States at the time they were not, but realistically, it's possible that the numbers I've given do actually include them.
I'm really not sure what you're getting at here, but I don't think trade within Canada or Nova Scotia would be radically altered, since they are both still under the same rule. It's trade with Britain that's going to be affected, as well as the role of trading in Rupert's Land, with the departure of the Hudson Bay Company.
Thanks for the input, and yeah, it's interesting that, in fact, the population of America was pretty split in concern to the Revolution. Around 20% of the population around the time of Independence was Loyalist and by 1800, 15% were still living within the United States. ITTL, the number will likely stay pretty close to that 20%, since there's no running up to Canada and only the rich would be able to emigrate to Britain and successfully start over there.
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Regarding spars and masts from the Canadian Maritime provinces.
With the French Revolution and the subsequent actions of a short little mad mad named Napolean (I know...I'm ahead of your events so far) the loss of the Baltic nations to French control meant that the British Navy was faced with a severe reduction in wood sources for new construction and repairs. Due to the nature of the White pine forests of eastern North America lumbering expiditions were set out to reserve trees for usage by the Royal Navy....and hence started the Canadian logging export industry.
As your timeline removes this wood supply from the Royal Navy this then leads to the question of a potentially smaller RN or a RN in poorer condition in future conflicts due the loss of Nova Scotia.
With the French Revolution and the subsequent actions of a short little mad mad named Napolean (I know...I'm ahead of your events so far) the loss of the Baltic nations to French control meant that the British Navy was faced with a severe reduction in wood sources for new construction and repairs. Due to the nature of the White pine forests of eastern North America lumbering expiditions were set out to reserve trees for usage by the Royal Navy....and hence started the Canadian logging export industry.
As your timeline removes this wood supply from the Royal Navy this then leads to the question of a potentially smaller RN or a RN in poorer condition in future conflicts due the loss of Nova Scotia.
I'm looking to revive or restart this TL sometime soon. If I restart it, I may try experimenting with posts that are intended to be excerpts from an alternate history textbook. In particular, this may enable me to shape events in different perspectives. But, it's just an idea being thrown around right now. In any case, those people who may be interested in the revival of this TL should feel free to comment.
I am indeed interested in this TL.
As I read though it, a question came to mind: you made references to "Canada" in your TL. Does it include TTL Quebec and OTL Upper Canada?
Marc A
P.S. You seemed to have juggled around prominent figures ITTL. I don't know too much about early American history to know the significance of their actions. Can anyone help me on that regard? Thanks.
As I read though it, a question came to mind: you made references to "Canada" in your TL. Does it include TTL Quebec and OTL Upper Canada?
Marc A
P.S. You seemed to have juggled around prominent figures ITTL. I don't know too much about early American history to know the significance of their actions. Can anyone help me on that regard? Thanks.
Yes, it's the whole of the Province of Quebec, which includes both Upper and Lower Canada. As part of the US, it's known as the State of Canada.
There's a section detailing some of the major players so far on page 3 of this thread.
Sure, why not? Admittedly, it was probably a mistake on my part, but does the date really matter that much?
EDIT- You can find the new thread for this TL here. Minor changes have been made to the first post, including retcons made throughout this thread and the addition of the timeline within the first post.
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