The Second World War, But The Sides Are Switched

[SimonPetroleum]

I was inspired by this image from r/AlternateHistory

and wanted to make a post there where i asked ChatGPT to give me a list of leaders and have the users pick it apart to get a more "realistic" scenario, because the list ChatGPT gave me was this:

"Here are leaders for each of the countries involved:

Allied Powers:

Germany: Chancellor Otto Wels

Japan: Emperor Yasuhito

Italy: Prime Minister Giacomo Matteotti

Romania: King Mihai I

Hungary: Prime Minister Ferenc Nagy

Czechoslovakia: President Edvard Beneš

Finland: Risto Ryti

Austria: Otto Bauer

Ukraine: Vyacheslav Lypynsky



Axis Powers:

United Kingdom: Prime Minister Oswald Mosley

USA: President George Van Horn Moseley

Russia: Konstantin Rodzaevsky

China: Chiang Kai-shek

Philippines: President Manuel Roxas

France: Philippe Pétain

Greece: Prime Minister Ioannis Metaxas

Canada: Adrien Arcand

Australia: Arthur Calwell

New Zealand: Campbell Begg

South Africa: Oswald Pirow

Yugoslavia: Milan Nedić

Netherlands: Anton Mussert"

Which, other than Oswald Moseley, who i explicitly asked for as he was the main hitler-like British person i know about, the rest were its idea, and was kinda hodgepodged together. When i posted it there they said i used ai, which, yeah, and they deleted the post, so i come here to ask you to pick apart this list.

Im mainly asking for the reverse WW2, the UK is main instigator, America is the Imperial Japan equivalent and Greece(which the ai was headset on so change it if you have a better idea, I'm just looking for an Italy equivalent) is the Italy, with Germany, Japan and Italy are the allies.

 

[Kaiser of Brazil]

If Britain, USA, France, Russia and China are all on the same side, we all know how this ends.

 

[MusuMankata]

I was inspired by this image from r/AlternateHistory

and wanted to make a post there where i asked ChatGPT to give me a list of leaders and have the users pick it apart to get a more "realistic" scenario, because the list ChatGPT gave me was this:

"Here are leaders for each of the countries involved:

Allied Powers:

Germany: Chancellor Otto Wels

Japan: Emperor Yasuhito

Italy: Prime Minister Giacomo Matteotti

Romania: King Mihai I

Hungary: Prime Minister Ferenc Nagy

Czechoslovakia: President Edvard Beneš

Finland: Risto Ryti

Austria: Otto Bauer

Ukraine: Vyacheslav Lypynsky



Axis Powers:

United Kingdom: Prime Minister Oswald Mosley

USA: President George Van Horn Moseley

Russia: Konstantin Rodzaevsky

China: Chiang Kai-shek

Philippines: President Manuel Roxas

France: Philippe Pétain

Greece: Prime Minister Ioannis Metaxas

Canada: Adrien Arcand

Australia: Arthur Calwell

New Zealand: Campbell Begg

South Africa: Oswald Pirow

Yugoslavia: Milan Nedić

Netherlands: Anton Mussert"

Which, other than Oswald Moseley, who i explicitly asked for as he was the main hitler-like British person i know about, the rest were its idea, and was kinda hodgepodged together. When i posted it there they said i used ai, which, yeah, and they deleted the post, so i come here to ask you to pick apart this list.

Im mainly asking for the reverse WW2, the UK is main instigator, America is the Imperial Japan equivalent and Greece(which the ai was headset on so change it if you have a better idea, I'm just looking for an Italy equivalent) is the Italy, with Germany, Japan and Italy are the allies.

Theoretically, the outcome should also be the reverse of OTL as well (so Axis wins), for the same reason WW2 as we know it was next-to-impossible to win for the Axis. Nothing much to say there, we can list names, but that's it.

But let's explore the idea a little more.

Are we really sure this alternate Axis is entirely cohesive and fully cooperative? The interests of a sincerely Fascist UK would not align well with the interests of a sincerely Fascist France or USA. Did they reach a compromise on these matters, somehow? Were they randomly attacked in block by the alt!Allies? The answer changes the dynamics involved, from "the Lend-Lease is slightly smaller" to "the former Axis members pick their weapons back up THE MOMENT the peace treaty with the Allies is dry, to attack each other", passing through "no collaboration happens, things like D-Day are impossible or end in a crushing defeat".

And that's not getting in the implications of the RUSSIAN Fascist States controlling Soviet Union's land area. That implies a level of internal purging leaving not a whole lot for expansion. Or, indeed, prepared defense.

 

[seraphim74]

Where is Poland? Screwed by both sides, I suppose? Again?
And why is Czechoslovakia in Allied camp? Should they not be in Axis? IOTL only Slovakia was in Axis.

 

[Nell_Lucifer]

Mihai would be too young to be the ruler. You could keep Antonescu (as he wanted initially a coalition government with the democratic parties and the exclusion of the Iron Guard but German pressure made it impossible) or have Armand Călinescu live.

 

[KaiserKatze]

Theoretically, the outcome should also be the reverse of OTL as well (so Axis wins), for the same reason WW2 as we know it was next-to-impossible to win for the Axis. Nothing much to say there, we can list names, but that's it.

But let's explore the idea a little more.

Are we really sure this alternate Axis is entirely cohesive and fully cooperative? The interests of a sincerely Fascist UK would not align well with the interests of a sincerely Fascist France or USA. Did they reach a compromise on these matters, somehow? Were they randomly attacked in block by the alt!Allies? The answer changes the dynamics involved, from "the Lend-Lease is slightly smaller" to "the former Axis members pick their weapons back up THE MOMENT the peace treaty with the Allies is dry, to attack each other", passing through "no collaboration happens, things like D-Day are impossible or end in a crushing defeat".

And that's not getting in the implications of the RUSSIAN Fascist States controlling Soviet Union's land area. That implies a level of internal purging leaving not a whole lot for expansion. Or, indeed, prepared defense.

Where is Poland? Screwed by both sides, I suppose? Again?
And why is Czechoslovakia in Allied camp? Should they not be in Axis? IOTL only Slovakia was in Axis.

I think that this hits the nail on the head. We consider WW2 to be one conflict, but by many standards it was more like 3 or 4 separate ones which are held under a unified blanket. Likewise, if we are only looking at major powers, we have even more flexibility.

Fascist America and Fascist France are nearly guaranteed to have major issues with Britain, and any war which saw them facing a shared enemy wouldn't see them being truly friendly with each other. I'd see many instances of them stabbing each other in the back and relying on the conflict as an excuse to take concessions. For example, Fascist America would almost definitely invade Canada (which wojld peobably have split off if London went Fascist), which Britain would oppose because of their own claims on it.

There is also the matter of goals and public opinion. Italy, for example, was grossly incompetent because of the way they ran their system, and fell to popular discontent. I'd be very surprised if a truly Fascist Russia or Britain didn't suffer massive internal opposition. On the flip side, without the Nazi willingness to do crazy idiotic stuff, we likely wouldn't see a rapid and dramatic Fall of France or similar.

The best-case scenario, in my view, is the Allies (containing Poland and Yugoslavia ideally, but perhaps not if it is a 1:1 reversal) securing all the smaller threats and then forming a bulwark against France and Russia. I'd see Russia being weaker, especially with the likes of Romania on the Allied side, and with the probably and hopeful instability of a Fascist Russia which oppresses its minorities, I could see Western Russia falling too quickly to be avoided. If France can also be knocked out (possible if the Benelux join), then perhaps a Cold War-esque scenario with a democratic Europe and occupied Western Russia vs. Fascist blocs in Asia and America. Japan probably falls

 

[CalBear]

Rule 11.

AI generated text is NOT allowed. It is also, to be super clear, plagiarism

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