With a PoD no earlier than just after the Napoleonic Wars, how could you possibly achieve a Scottish independence movement by the year 1900 that is about as strong, and about as explosive as the Irish independence movement at that time in our timeline?
The Scottish Independence Movement
- Thread starter Makemakean
- Start date
I think to do this you would significantly have to change Scotland's role within the United Kingdom and the British Isles, seeing as the British Empire really was an Anglo-Scottish Empire.
Perhaps one of the Jacobite invasions succeed, although their is later an overthrow of Bonnie Prince Charlie's regime, the result being a SEVERE backlash against the Scots, who are seen by the English as the traitors who bought absolutism and popery back to Albion's shores...
Perhaps one of the Jacobite invasions succeed, although their is later an overthrow of Bonnie Prince Charlie's regime, the result being a SEVERE backlash against the Scots, who are seen by the English as the traitors who bought absolutism and popery back to Albion's shores...
Better idea (IMO):
Charlie's 1745 invasion succeeds. The Stuarts are restored, with a French army to prop them up.
The Stuarts, being pious Catholics, start work to restore Catholicism in Britain. They are semi-clever about this, and actually succeed in England, at least to the extent of forcing the C of E to merge back into the RCC; the C of E being not very different from the RCC in doctrine and practice.
However, the Kirk of Scotland is Calvinist, and utterly unreconcilable with the RCC. The Stuarts, being autocratic gits, try to apply the same program as in England. When it fails, they resort to increased levels of coercion.
The government mandates religious discrimination against Scots Protestants, producing ever increasing levels of resentment.
With French backing and Irish goons, the British monarchy holds control of Scotland, but by 1900, Scottish nationalism is a violent force.
Alex Richards
Donor
That sounds very unlikely.
To the average person in 18th Century England, the idea of being ruled by a French catholic (as this will be seen) is a fate worse than death.
And the Catholics will, by and large, resent French influence and be fearful of a backlash against them.
To the average person in 18th Century England, the idea of being ruled by a French catholic (as this will be seen) is a fate worse than death.
And the Catholics will, by and large, resent French influence and be fearful of a backlash against them.
Your best bet at this time is for the Chartists to be more sucessful. This may lead to a Scotish parliment.
I can't see a rebellion or revolution working - it would need to be peaceful (ish) political pressure. There was a good reason why 1848 was just another year in GB.
I can't see a rebellion or revolution working - it would need to be peaceful (ish) political pressure. There was a good reason why 1848 was just another year in GB.
Derek Pullem
Donor
UK refuses to allow emmigration from the Highlands post clearances. An Irish scale potato famine ensues leading to a strong anti-English sentiments and with that strong anti-Edinburgh sentiments (Anglo-Scots cf Anglo-Irish)
Like the Irish the Highlands are relatively weak, look back to the golden age of Scots independence and there is a strong pro-English faction in the major cities / central belt
Could lead to Scots partition a la Ireland with independent Scotland built around Glasgow and the Highlands with a rump Scotland in the UK around Edinburgh?
Like the Irish the Highlands are relatively weak, look back to the golden age of Scots independence and there is a strong pro-English faction in the major cities / central belt
Could lead to Scots partition a la Ireland with independent Scotland built around Glasgow and the Highlands with a rump Scotland in the UK around Edinburgh?
Alex Richards
Donor
Glasgow wasn't affected by the clearances and was a big shipping manufacturing base as well, so that feels off.
Also, why wouldn't they be allowed to leave?
Also, why wouldn't they be allowed to leave?
That's something that I never really understood. George IV taking pride in being a "Stuart prince" and a "Jacobite Scottish chieftain." I mean, back in Shakespeare's day, the Tudors were pretty clear about portraying their Plantagenet predecessors as hunchbacked, nephew-murdering paranoid lunatics. The Hanoverians romanticizing about the very people who wanted them violently overthrown and declaring them void of legitimacy... Like, what?
That would be like if the pretenders to the Russian throne were hugely nostalgic about the Bolsheviks, or the Bourbon and Órleans pretenders were huge admirers of the Napoleons.