The Reign of Romulus Augustus

[lucaswillen05]

Hmm, I'm not sure how feasible would it be the Limitanei to become a feudal levy. The thing about border troops is that they need to be full time soldiers because their role is to patrol the borders and protect the custom checkpoints.

On the issue of local defence, I'm not quite sure if the Romans would be comfortable with the idea of a militia at all. The Romans are extremely wary of allowing the private citizens to own arms, and there was never any official policy that supported militias. It would take an extremely radical shift in military ideology for the Romans to even consider implementing an empire-wide militia system.

Thy could evolve into part of a feudal style army. Of course we are talking about a different type of "feudal" system here resemblng more what developed in the Eastern/Byzantine Empire IOTL. It would be feudal in the sense that it works on inherited land in return for military service and tax. It would not be the Western European feudal system as it developed IOTL and of course troops would be trained professionals like the Byzantine army was.

It also depends on the extent to which the Germans influence Roman thinking. I can see Romulus' successors adapting their ideas to assimilate some of the Germans living on the northern frontiers ansd continuing to develop the Roman military in order to better combat German enemies.

 

[Bmao]

However, I'm in agreement that we could see feudal style when it comes to organizing second line militia troops, and as Romulus said could apply to the limitanei, in order to help with public order, because the Roman Army can't be everywhere. Yet at the same time, with the Western Roman Empire able to pay for and sustain a large, full-time professional army, we'll see the influence of feudalism be much more limited in that regard.

We could also see a 'feudal' phenomena occur in the various military religious orders, like the Augustinian order, which would be in a position to obtain a certain level of indepedance in their actions, but that this would be only limited to mostly North Africa, and they are expected to supplement the Roman army in times of war if that war were to take place in that particular region.

 

[ray243]

Thy could evolve into part of a feudal style army. Of course we are talking about a different type of "feudal" system here resemblng more what developed in the Eastern/Byzantine Empire IOTL. It would be feudal in the sense that it works on inherited land in return for military service and tax. It would not be the Western European feudal system as it developed IOTL and of course troops would be trained professionals like the Byzantine army was.

I don't think we can really describe the Themata system as a feudal system. For one, the military ranks was not hereditary. Even then, you must take into account that the Byzantine only developed the themata system in response to their loss of lands.

If they were able to hold on to Egypt and Palestine, there is a high chance they might not want to develop and adopt the themata system.

It also depends on the extent to which the Germans influence Roman thinking. I can see Romulus' successors adapting their ideas to assimilate some of the Germans living on the northern frontiers ansd continuing to develop the Roman military in order to better combat German enemies.

But why should they adopt feudalism? The Romans are willingly to adapt barbarian military tactics, but there is very little chance they would actually want to adopt an inferior system of raising and maintaining army from the barbarians.

Again, I have yet to see very solid reasons why the Romans would want to adopt the themata or feudal system. States don't adopt new and radical system out of thin air just because the world is moving into a new "period". It is entirely possible that you can have a classical empire in a medieval age.

You need to show me why the Western Romans would want to adopt the themata or feudal system, and not just because such a system could be useful in some ways.

Try and see things from the Romans point of view and not just from a 21st century point of view. Try and understand why the Romans adopted the themata system and why they did not adopt a feudal system similar to the Franks.

 

[ray243]

However, I'm in agreement that we could see feudal style when it comes to organizing second line militia troops, and as Romulus said could apply to the limitanei, in order to help with public order, because the Roman Army can't be everywhere. Yet at the same time, with the Western Roman Empire able to pay for and sustain a large, full-time professional army, we'll see the influence of feudalism be much more limited in that regard.

I think we need to be very careful with making assumptions that the Romans would even establish a formal militia system. Even during the darkest days of the Roman Empire, the empire did not establish a formal militia system.

Allowing towns and cities to establish their own militia is extremely dangerous for the Emperor because you are allowing someone else to potentially built an army to challenge the Imperial army. Bearing in mind that the legitimacy of the Imperial throne was based by the fact that the Emperor had a total monopoly of the troops in the empire, the last thing any Emperor would want to do is to allow establish their own private army and fiefdom within the empire.

The Roman Empire had a system similar to this before the ascension of Romulus. It's called foederati and it didn't end well for the Empire. The idea of feudalism is too similar to the foederati, and I am fairly certain that Romulus would remember this fact.

We could also see a 'feudal' phenomena occur in the various military religious orders, like the Augustinian order, which would be in a position to obtain a certain level of indepedance in their actions, but that this would be only limited to mostly North Africa, and they are expected to supplement the Roman army in times of war if that war were to take place in that particular region.

I don't think feudalism mix well with any monastic order. Bearing in mind that the historical orders such as the Templars relied on their banks to fund the order rather than a feudal system, it is unlikely that the various monastic order will give rise to a feudal system.

Just think about this for a second. Feudalism isn't just a system where knights are given lands and peasants to lord over. Feudalism is closely tied to the idea that these lands as well as military obligation are inheritable by the heirs of the knights.

Why would a monastic order give away their lands to their monks ( who have taken their vows), and allow these lands to be pass on to the knights' children?


Once again, just because feudalism was part and parcel of the medieval period does not mean the Roman Empire of Romulus needs to have some elements of feudalism.

 

[Romulus Augustus]

jkarr: Thank you! That's probably one of the best compliments I've gotten about TTL and I really do appreciate your interest in this story, yours and everyone else who have taken the time to read and comment here.

ray243: You make a very compelling case against feudalism. Personally I was very hesitant about the notion of a feudal system making its way into the WRE because I agree that it is inherently inferior to the Dominate. At the same time, I didn't want to dismiss it completely for a few reasons, one being that there is a large number of peasants in the western Empire who could be patronized in a system with similar aspects to feudalism.

So let's say the Roman army is off limits, including the limitanei, which are not connected of the field armies but still part of the overall professional military force, where else could we see a potential rise in at the very least some variant of feudalism? One scenario might involve the nobility. They're in a position as wealthy landowners to lord over peasants, whom they could train and arm for the protection of their own lands.

Granted, this most likely won't be probable with a powerful emperor and central government in the way, but what if the nobility took a vested interest in the military orders. For example, they might contribute considerable funds to the training and maintenance of knights, whom they would 'own' in a sense. This sort of trend could then be passed down in an unofficial hereditary system in which future generations of noblemen who 'inherit' their ancestors' lands and the 'military obligation' of using the knights to support the emperor when called upon in times of war.

On the other hand, if that example isn't likely to come to pass either, than the only other one I can think of is a scenario in which the WRE is invaded by a major enemy force at some point in the future. If the professional army isn't enough to repel the invasion, the nobility could combine their resources and raise a second army to supplement the regular troops. Assuming the war is won and the emperor allows the new system to remain, then the nobility scenario might be more feasible. At best, it would only introduce a limited amount of feudalism into the mix without overshadowing the Dominate. At worst, it could potentially devolve the WRE into a more full-blown feudal society. But then again I think that would be unlikely, given the level of centralization and authoritarianism in the Dominate system.

 

[Dalradia]

i agree with ray that feudalism will not develop in the western empire because of the emperors policy of giving out free land in north italy and north africa in order to repopulate the area it was mentioned that the aristocrats or what remained of the senate are upset by this policy because they wanted to grab those lands and add it to their existing ones but the emperor beat them to it. Now because of this actions the emperor accidentally created or increased the number of people who are not bound to an aristocrat. w/c in turn lessens the number of land barons who might one day become nobles who lords over their peasants. while increasing the population who are middle class or will become one

plus the condition inside the western empire is not chaotic like OTL. The government is able to secure it's borders and protect it's citizens so the idea of providing labor in return for a lords protection is not gonna be entertained by the common man since the government is still intact and running and is able to provide security. Outside of the western empire though the conditions for feudalism is very ripe specially in hispania since it's pretty chaotic there atm. it may also develop in gaul if clovis's son's turn on each other w/c i think is very possible.

 

[ray243]

True. The only way we would see any sort of feudalism is if the Romans decides to reconquer Gaul and Hispania. Even then, it is likely they will find ways to weaken the power of the nobles, and find ways to tax them.

 

[Shapur2]

Why not have them adopt a system similar to the OTL Pronoia System, of the 11th to 15th centuries? It was adopted under the Komnenians, to replace the Themata system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronoia

BTW, Romulus Augustus, I caught up with your TL two days ago, this is really an awesome timeline! Glad to see that the West is still hanging on; perhaps they'll have the strength to begin a limited 'Reconquista' in the future!

Anyways, keep up the good work, this is a great Timeline!

 

[ray243]

Why not have them adopt a system similar to the OTL Pronoia System, of the 11th to 15th centuries? It was adopted under the Komnenians, to replace the Themata system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronoia

You should try and understand why the Romans adopted the pronoia system in the first place before suggesting that the Romans will implement such a policy under Romulus and his successors.

It's highly unrealisitc and unhistorical to see such a system being implemented in the Western Roman Empire.

Sigh, I wish people can make a little effort to understand the past instead of adding stuff in just because it's cool.

 

[Romulus Augustus]

Shapur2: Thank you!! I'm glad you like TTL. It's been an interesting challenge developing Romulus Augustus and other characters. When I first started writing TTL, I had a vague idea of where it would go but I think it's turned out much better than even I expected and I appreciate that you guys have kept reading and commenting to offer compliments or ideas on how to improve TTL.

ray243: At this point ITTL I don't see the Dominate being replaced anytime soon by a system that takes power and control away from the central government. However, I'm curious as to why you say it is unrealistic and unhistorical for something like the pronoia to be used by the western Empire. Granted, I don't think it's likely that the system would be exactly the same as its OTL form, but a Roman emperor could transfer Imperial fiscal rights to individuals or institutions in exchange for whatever advantages he might receive in return. Regardless of whether it's a logical or illogical move on the emperor's part, as absolute ruler he can theoretically institute certain policies that could potentially lead to some version of the pronoia. I'm not saying that's what will or will not happen ITTL, but I have to consider the possibility at the very least, no matter how unlikely it may seem.


[FONT=&quot]AD 522

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The West

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The Roman army was only as good as the training and discipline of its soldiers, and they were only as good as the fabricae that supplied them with weapons, armor and other military grade equipment. Organization, logistical support, and a command structure were all integral components that made the Roman war machine an elite and professional military force, but it was also the efficient supply of equipment that kept the Empire’s armies another step ahead of virtually every other army in the known world. Funded and maintained by the central government of the state, the Empire came to possess an ingenious production system that could furnish the troops with new supplies on a regular basis. The level of organization behind the fabricae could be traced back to the military reforms of Gaius Marius, an ancient general with a renown legacy as the virtual ‘father’ of the first professional army in Roman history. Since then, the responsibility of providing the army’s needs have been shouldered by the Roman state throughout a succession of political regimes—from the ancient Republic to the two incarnations of the eternal Empire: the Principate and the Dominate.

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The spathariae and scutariae supplied the standard sword and shield of most Roman soldiers.
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[FONT=&quot]The basic structure of the fabrica organization was retained, but the system gradually evolved and adapted to meet the needs of the Roman military which changed dramatically over time, especially during the 3rd and 4th centuries of the Anno Domini period. By then the nationalization process of military workshops increased as a result of the emperor Diocletian’s significant overhaul of the armed forces. Under his leadership, existing fabricae were expanded and supplemented by new military workshops in major urban centers like Edessa and Antioch. At this point most emperors traded certain death in Rome for the security of their armies in the provinces of the Empire. As such, new fabricae tended to be built in the location of their headquarters. The weapon factory in Nicomedia was constructed around the time when Diocletian established his court in the city; another weapon workshop was located in Thessalonica, the capital of the emperor Galerius. More fabricae were later built in cities like Augusta Treverorum, Salona, and Sirmium—all of which possessed a significant military presence.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The localization of weapon workshops within urban walls was also partly influenced by the Imperial field armies, the comitatenses, and their main purpose as a mobile force that guarded the Empire’s interior. There were other conveniences as well. Cities guaranteed immediate access to Roman roads; more importantly they provided access to resources such as iron ore, wood, leather and other materials that were indispensible to the production of weapons. As important as the workshops were to the army, it was the workers who were its life’s blood without which the fabricae would not be possible. By stationing them in Roman cities, these essential craftsmen and skilled laborers had better access to a variety of necessities, including food and clothing. Most importantly, however, was the sense of security that fortified urban settlements offered in an era of increasing internal and external strife.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]By the time of the completion of the Notitia Dignitatum around the early 5th century AD, there were 35 major workshops, 25 of which were located in the western Empire with the remaining 15 in the eastern provinces. Separate types of factories divided the responsibility of providing the various needs of the army. The scutaria et armorum was a production center of the standard weapons used by most soldiers. These factories were located along the eastern and northern borders of the Empire. The factories that constructed technical equipment like arrows and bows were the sagittaria and arcuraria respectively.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The substantial decrease in territorial integrity was a massive blow to the fragile western Empire, but it was the loss of many fabricae that severely crippled its army in addition to an array of other factors that undermined the military’s efficiency in the late 5th century AD. Fortunately the number of major workshops was limited in Britannia and Africa at the time when both regions were lost to the West. Despite the number of rebellions and usurpations in those areas, their military importance diminished and the troops stationed there represented only a small fraction of the Roman army. As the western Imperial government became increasingly forced to prioritize the use of its limited resources, it was believed that neither Britannia or Africa required on-site weapon factories since their needs could be fulfilled by the fabricae of Gaul.

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Roman archers received their weapons from the arcuraria and sagittariae fabricae.
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[FONT=&quot]The withdrawal from Britannia stung at the pride of Rome, but in reality it represented a minimal loss with no real consequence to the long-term survival of the West. Whereas the loss of the African provinces was an economic disaster for the poorer half of the Empire. But with the fall of Gaul to several Germanic upstart tribes, the weakened military of Rome slipped further into a decaying state without the full support structure that it was accustomed to. When the emperor Romulus Augustus ascended to the throne in AD 475, his father and regent, the magister militum Orestes, took several steps to secure and strengthen what little was left of the military infrastructure, including the fabricae of Ticinum and Salona. Much like the western Empire, however, the reconstruction of the fabrica system was initially slow and laborious; a painstaking endeavor that required years of patience, the strategic allocation of resources, and the constant repairing and recycling of equipment that was passed from one generation to the next.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Even scavenging was a viable option for the once proud-turned-desperate Roman army. During the Gothic and Vandalic conflicts, defeated enemies were stripped of their weapons, armor, and other assets of military value by the Empire. The crude but effective method of resupply was especially necessary during the military buildup in preparation for the latter war, mainly because the army’s manpower exceeded the remaining fabricae’s ability to supply all units. On the other hand, the Empire was also fortunate that its factories were no longer in the abysmal state as their conditions indicated at the time of Romulus Augustus’ ascension. What the Empire in the West needed at the time was more fabricae to replace the ones that were lost in Gaul and the upper Danube. It would be an expensive endeavor, to say the least, but such was the price of production centralization. Fortunately, the Emperor now had access to a new revenue of wealth in Africa, enough to begin funding projects that were previously less available to him because of money, or rather the lack of it.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]By the year AD 522 the arcuraria fabrica of Ticinum was restored to its former functionality, producing bows at a greater rate due to the western Empire’s growing preference for long-range combat as opposed to the old pitched infantry battles. Their production coincided with that of the ammunition workshops: the arrow-producing sagittariae of Concordia and Pavia, the second of which was constructed in AD 515 to replace the Gallic workshop in Matisco. Construction of two ballistariae began, one in Veii and the other in Mantua, shortly before the conclusion of the Vandalic War in order to compensate for the loss of their predecessors in Gaul. The scutaria factory of Cremona, the West’s only remaining original factory in shield production, was supplemented with four new scutariae in Mediolanum, Ravenna, Rome, and Tarentum. There were three spathariae, factories that produced the spatha swords, located in Ravenna, Rome, and Salona. Some of these fabricae were still in the early phases of construction while several other specialized factories still needed to be built for the convenience of certain categories in the military such as the variant units in the army’s cavalry wing.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The enormous task of ensuring that the western Empire would be better positioned to bring the full might of its arms to bear in the future was placed upon a bureaucratic civil service department within the Imperial Court, led by the magister officiorum (“master of offices”). In this capacity, Liberius demonstrated his exceptional work ethic and reliability as an administrator, two qualities which were noted by the Emperor when he decided to support the nobleman’s career by promoting him as the new head of government. The restoration of the fabricae was one of Romulus Augustus’ many military objectives, but it was Liberius’ obsessive focus on the day-to-day affairs of state administration that helped to restore a critical element of the military infrastructure. Though it would take at least another decade before the fabricae were at full operational status, the end result was that the army’s mobilization and general preparations would proceed at a faster and more efficient pace.[/FONT]

Civil War of the Visigoths
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[FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]The Visigoths

Eutharic Cilliga[/FONT][FONT=&quot] was born in the late 5th century AD to the Amali line, a distinguished family of the Visigothic nobility. During his childhood, Eutharic’s father, the nobleman Veteric, was among the Visigoths whom Alaric II deployed to assist their Ostrogothic brethren in Theodoric’s attempted conquest of the western Roman Empire. As a consequence of their defeat against the Roman-Frankish alliance, Veteric was slain along with thousands of Goths at the decisive Battle of Cortona in AD 495. The violent loss of his father led the young Eutharic to develop immense hatred of the Romans and Franks. Yet it was only the beginning of many years of despair and struggle for him and the rest of the Visigoths. The Gallic portion of their kingdom was ultimately absorbed by the Frankish domain during the first decade of the 6th century AD. Additionally, the death of Alaric II and his failure to provide a legitimate male heir created a succession crisis at a time when the kingdom was crumbling under the combined pressure of external foes and internal unrest among the rebellious Hispano-Roman population.[/FONT]

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The remnants of the Visigothic kingdom initially divided into four rump states in the Iberian peninsula, the largest of which was centered around Toletum where Gesalec, the illegitimate son of Alaric II, proclaimed himself the rightful king of the Visigoths. However, the leading members of the Visigothic nobility were unconvinced that a bastard-born man of diluted royal blood had no legitimate claim to the kingship whatsoever. The failure to reach a peaceful solution subsequently led to civil war between Toletum and the nobles who fortified their position in Corduba. Eutharic was among the nobility who sided with Gesalec. Although he personally blamed Alaric II, in addition to the Romans and Franks, for the death of his father, Eutharic also believed that even an illegitimate descendant of Alaric I was the best approach at salvaging what remained of the Visigoths’ kingdom.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]He served as a commander in the army of the king of Toletum, a position through which he gained a reputation for exceptional valor and skill on the battlefield. However, his status as a great warrior was earned through a series of battles in which he had been forced to shed the blood of his fellow countrymen in a civil war that only guaranteed further Visigothic losses on both sides before it would be finished. His conscience and resolve were greatly undermined by self-doubt and depression, causing him to develop an addiction to alcohol and a desire for isolation. The tipping point in his mental state came when he learned of Gesalec’s intention to beseech the newly-created praetorian prefecture of Hispania for peace and a military alliance. It was an unthinkable act of treachery from Eutharic’s point of view. He had chosen to support a bastard’s claim to the throne, spilt Visigothic blood for the sake of renewed unity, only to discover that the ‘king’ secretly plotted to align his faction with the people whom Eutharic hated the most. He was convinced that Gesalec had betrayed his people, and so he in turn sought to overthrow the pretender before his agenda could be realized.

[/FONT]

Eutharic Cilliga was born into the partially Romanized Visigothic nobility.
His traumatic experiences caused him to fall back on his Germanic roots by becoming a bloodthirsty warlord.
​

[FONT=&quot]Riding north to Termes, Eutharic gathered an army after spreading word of their false king’s insidious act of treachery. But by the time he reached the capital with a force that was sufficient enough to unseat his former master, the Battle of Toletum had already taken place and resulted in a catastrophic defeat for both sides. Gesalec was dead, murdered at the hands of his own guards while the king of Corduba, Ediulf, fell on the battlefield. The two rival factions were then unable to hold their cohesion and consequently broke up into several other rump states. Eutharic unwittingly contributed to the outcome by taking troops out of the north where Clunia and Termes were free to declare their independence from the shattered domain of Toletum without immediate consequence. The details of Eutharic’s life over the next decade were unclear and mostly lost to history, but some scholars believed that the rogue general took the warriors who did not desert him and fled into hiding, essentially becoming a band of marauding outlaws who lived off the land and held no allegiance to anyone except themselves.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]In AD 522 the civil war had all but completely crawled to a standstill. The advancement of the Suevi had been beaten back by the armies of Clunia, Salamantica, and Emirita Augusta, and Evora. Meanwhile, the praetorian prefecture of Hispania seemed to be content with the consolidation of its territory along the eastern coastal regions, at least for the time being. The remnants of the Visigothic kingdom had grown too accustomed to their independence to willingly sacrifice sovereignty for a single leader whom they could all agree on. Regionalism began to settle in as the successor kingdoms tended to favor alliances with their closest neighbors. Beyond the incentive of mutual defense, none of the claimants wanted to relinquish their power, but neither had they given up hope on restoring Visigothic Hispania under their rule. It was around the same year that Eutharic resurfaced in historical texts which stated that he managed to infiltrate Roman Hispania with a small force of barbarians. Border skirmishes and raiding parties were nuisances that the Hispano-Roman population endured and repelled on several occasions, but Eutharic’s men were the first to defeat a contingent of local troops who were sent to intercept the invaders.

[/FONT]

As comes Hispaniarum, Avitus was tasked with the responsibility of protecting the praetorian prefecture of Hispania from Eutharic's raiders.
​

[FONT=&quot]Burdunellus, the praetorian prefect of Hispania, was fearful that the larger Visigothic population could be enticed to join Eutharic’s incursion into Roman lands unless the renegade Visigoth was defeated as swiftly as possible. Given that an Imperial garrison was stationed in Hispania for the purpose of protecting the Empire’s major outpost on the Iberian peninsula, the prefect turned to the comes Hispaniarum, Aurelius Servatius Avitus, for military assistance. Avitus had more than enough soldiers to defeat his numerically inferior enemy, but he was also hindered by his own experience as a career soldier. Despite the Roman army’s preference to avoid pitched battles and other forms of traditional combat, it was still a regular force with a limited ability to effectively counter small-scale acts of guerilla warfare. In effect the two opponents were trapped at an impasse. Avitus could not goad the former Visigothic general to fight in the open field, and neither could Eutharic risk an open confrontation with the forces of a Roman count. Notwithstanding the potential and more serious repercussions of the outcome, the ensuing ‘cat and mouse’ hunt between Avitus and Eutharic became a source of comedic entertainment to outsiders. Even other Romans were overtaken by feelings of amusement as they listened to the heralds who delivered regular reports on the situation.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The East

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Since the death of Anastasius and the de-construction of the Monophysite influence over the eastern Empire, Constantinople and its provinces experienced a period of renewed internal peace and stability for the most part under the reign of Justin I. The accession of a Catholic emperor to the eastern throne mitigated the damages that the Empire sustained during the chaotic era of Zeno and Anastasius. The Acacian schism was over, allowing the eastern and western churches to end their mutual excommunication for the purpose of achieving reunification. Moreover, the marriage between Justinian and Honoria solidified the new eastern regime’s alliance with the Pannonian dynasty and the powerful Anicii clan.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]However, much of the credit actually belonged to the eastern emperor’s nephew and adopted heir, Justinian. Although there was little doubt that he would rise as the next emperor in the East after his uncle’s death, Justinian was not content to simply wait for his turn; nor was he satisfied with the largely marginalized title of Caesar. Justin was a capable soldier and military commander, but his knowledge in the daily affairs of political administration left much to be desired. Now that he was long past the prime of his life, the emperor was gradually slipping further into a senile state. He was in many respects a figurehead who projected the image of an Augustus; the real power behind the throne was the man who was next in line, a man who trained to be a leader at the hand of Romulus Augustus himself.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Although he shared the rank of Caesar with his wife’s older brother, the prince Theodosius, the talented and ambitious Justinian had no intention of settling for an office that was lately defined almost entirely by its function as a designated heir to the title of Augustus. For Justinian, however, it was more than just ambition that drove him to be a more powerful heir than the average Caesar of his time. Unlike the members of his wife’s family, Justinian was a newcomer to the proud Roman aristocracy that scorned the humble origin of his family. Their new relation to the Imperial family of Romulus Augustus certainly elevated the Justinian clan into the ranks of the nobility where they found many “friends” who were interested in exploiting Justinian’s connection to the Pannonian dynasty.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Nevertheless, the man who was designated to be the next eastern emperor desired above all else to prove that he was indeed worthy of the Imperial throne—not just because he was married to the granddaughter of Romulus Augustus, but also because he had the skill and determination to restore the former glory of the Roman Empire. Though he was publicly viewed as a close advisor to Justin, in secret Justinian used the trust of his aging uncle as an advantage to gain more power. Since his uncle’s accession to the throne, Justinian held two consulships, one in AD 517 and another in AD 520. By the year AD 522, he convinced his uncle to appoint him to a third consulship, thus allowing Justinian to galvanize his prestige and reputation as a consummate politician. He further took charge by accepting the responsibilities of the magister officiorum, effectively placing him in control of the government and certain military units like the scholae.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The political atmosphere was where Justinian was most confident in his abilities, but he also needed to assert his dominance over the military, especially since his rival Vitalian was still alive and in possession of the title magister militum per Thracias (“master of soldiers in Thracia”). Although they shared the same faith, which Vitalian defended against the Monophysite government of Anastasius, regardless of the their reasons Justinian felt threatened by the former rebel general who managed to rally an entire army into mass mutiny. Ultimately, he intended to neutralize the threat by killing Vitalian,. In this he hesitated because Vitalian still commanded the loyalty of the Thracian army, much of which was still composed of veterans who served under him against Anastasius. Until he could discern a way of removing Vitalian without causing another civil war, Justinian grudgingly endured the general’s existence. Nevertheless, he persuaded his uncle to grant him command over the eastern armies as magister militum per Orientum (“master of soldiers in the East”).

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Despite Justinian’s insecurity over his low birth, he genuinely valued his marriage to Honoria above all other concerns. Having been raised in the same household, Justinian knew Honoria ever since she was a child while he himself started out as a humble guest of the western Roman Court. By now she was said to be one of the most beautiful and desirable young women in the Empire; that she, an Imperial princess, was ultimately wedded to a man of Justinian’s social background was beyond his wildest dreams. Were it not for his family’s meteoric rise from the depths of the social hierarchy to the Imperial throne of the eastern Empire, his marriage to Honoria would not have been legally possible had he still been nothing more than the son of mere peasants. Instead he was Justin’s heir and that made all the difference for a special dispensation that allowed Justinian to have a wife whose beauty made most men wish that their own wives were as lovely as Honoria. All they needed now was a male heir; a son of Justinian with the blood of Honoria would all but guarantee the survival of the new dynasty for at least another generation.

[/FONT]

Despite their age difference, or perhaps because of it, the 40 year-old Justinian was absolutely besotted by his 17 year-old wife, the western princess Honoria.
​

 

[ray243]

ray243: At this point ITTL I don't see the Dominate being replaced anytime soon by a system that takes power and control away from the central government. However, I'm curious as to why you say it is unrealistic and unhistorical for something like the pronoia to be used by the western Empire. Granted, I don't think it's likely that the system would be exactly the same as its OTL form, but a Roman emperor could transfer Imperial fiscal rights to individuals or institutions in exchange for whatever advantages he might receive in return. Regardless of whether it's a logical or illogical move on the emperor's part, as absolute ruler he can theoretically institute certain policies that could potentially lead to some version of the pronoia. I'm not saying that's what will or will not happen ITTL, but I have to consider the possibility at the very least, no matter how unlikely it may seem.

My main contention against the possibility of implementing a system similar to the pronoia is that the Romans never bothered with such a system until the 12th century despite suffering major defeats for over 700+ years.

Without taking into account the unique set of factors that force the Empire to adopt the pronoia system, as well as taking into account of the influence of the western kingdoms, it just seems highly unlikely that the Empire will adopt such a system out of its own will. The pronoia system did not suddenly arise just because the Emperor willed it. It was the cumulation of centuries of events that led to the erosion of a strong centralised state.

 

[Dalradia]

nice update

anyhow i am curious as to how will justinian will restore the roman empires former glory? will it be the reconquest of the lost lands? the only place i can think of is in hispania but if they go for that place they may actually unite the visigoths and to resist the romans plus there is Eutharic Cilliga who can be a major source of pain for the romans i also doubt if the east can fully put it's attention in the west for a long war the sassanid empire will surely take advantage of the situation and try to take as much land from the east(they may actually replace the arab invasion so instead of muslim's we have zoroastrians taking egypt. then comes the plague and the east will blame the west for it's troubles a big possible rift ) the other place is burgundy as for the franks the pope might intervene since they are christians

or will justinian try to assert the east's dominance on the western part? he could do this but it will again widen the rift between east and west

 

[Deleted member 67076]

Just caught up, wonderful updates!

This discussion of factories and industry has had me wondering if the Romans ITTL can enter a proto-industrial stage somewhere down the line like the Song did. Probably not, but you never know!

Also very curious to see what Justinian will do now. Sucks Theodora got butterflied away, but oh well. It be like that sometimes.

 

[ray243]

Just caught up, wonderful updates!

This discussion of factories and industry has had me wondering if the Romans ITTL can enter a proto-industrial stage somewhere down the line like the Song did. Probably not, but you never know!

You need a massive population/urban boom if you want to reach the stage achieved by the Song dynasty.

It is likely that Justinian's plague will still occur, and the decline of urban population will still occur in this timeline. Unless the population can recover quickly enough, I'm not sure if the fabrica will result in some sort of proto-industrial revolution.

@Romulus:

Regarding Justinian, I am wondering if he will attempt to launch a conquest of Arabia if he is Emperor. Afterall, Arabia is becoming quite rich during this period, and quite dangerous as well. If Justinian do not need to divert so much resources to reconquering the western province, he could focus his attention on expanding into Arabia and Mesopotamia.

 

[Romulus Augustus]

Dalradia: Thanks! Territorial restoration is a bit ambitious, considering the present circumstances ITTL, but it is one way of 'restoring' the Empire in a sense. However, 'former glory' can mean other things like cultural development, advancements in art and architecture, improving the legal code system -- all of which the ALT Justinian has an interest in, not unlike his OTL self. Yet I've also considered the eastern Empire's military options ITTL. Part of why I maneuvered the Justin's family into power is because I was curious as to what Justinian could have done if the West still stood in the 6th century AD. For example, instead of buying off the Persians in order to reclaim the lost western provinces, would he have considered a more aggressive stance in Roman-Persian relations? He certainly was willing in the OTL (and TTL) to go to war when he thought it was in the Empire's best interests, so it's definitely one thing to consider.

Soverihn: Thanks. While I certainly don't think that industrialization is impossible for an ALT where the Roman Empire survived, notwithstanding the innumerable factors that would have to come first in order to reach an industrial stage, I agree with ray243 that Justinian's plague would most likely hinder the Empire's development for possibly quite some time before they can get back on their feet in a manner of speaking. I briefly considered including Theodora ITTL, but I felt like that would be "too much." I was able to put the Justinian family on the map because the POD occurred after Justin reached adulthood and shortly before Justinian was born; I simply altered some conditions in their ascendancy to power, but the end result was Justin's accession to the eastern throne a few years earlier than his OTL rise to power. But I think the changes by now could have affected Theodora in any number of ways. Overall, her life could have likely followed a different course of events that lead away from the future she lived in the OTL.

ray243: That's exactly what I was considering when I first thought about making Justinian the center of a sub-plot for TTL. Off the top of my head I'm fairly familiar with Justinian's wars, especially after researching a bit of the 6th century AD for TTL. As I told Soverihn, I'm very interested in what options he could have considered if he didn't feel compelled to restore the western provinces to the Empire. Granted, not everything in the West has been recovered by Imperial authority, but I think the presence of a resurgent western Empire could allow Justinian to focus on threats from the East, particularly the Sassanids which he won't have to bribe for peace in order to go to war in Italy and Africa.

A/N: This new update is composed of profiles for the members of the newest generation in the Imperial family (e.g. Theodosius and Marcia, Honoria and Justinian, Valentinian and Clotilde 'the younger'). It will be divided into three parts with the first one focusing on Theodosius and Marcia. The others profiles will be ready soon.


IMPERIAL FAMILY (AD 522): PART I

THEODOSIUS (Flavius Julius Theodosius Nobilissimus Caesar)

• Born July 9, AD 502 (age 20)
• Son of Olybrius II and Irene; grandson of Romulus Augustus and Anicia Juliana
• Emperor-designate (first-in-line) of the western Roman Empire

Theodosius is the eldest son of Olybrius II and Irene. He has two younger siblings: Honoria and Valentinian. His paternal grandparents are Romulus Augustus and Anicia Juliana. He is also related to the Leonid dynasty of the eastern Empire through his distaff line, although not by blood since his mother was only a member due to her uncle Anastasius’ marriage to the empress Ariadne. As the first-born male in the third generation of the Imperial family, Theodosius is at the forefront in the line of succession, surpassed only by his father—the junior Augustus in the West. Moreover, his hereditary claim to the western throne has been made official through his promotion to the rank of Nobilissimus Caesar, the emperor-designate under the current form of the Dominate system.

Shortly afterward, a politically-motivated marriage united Theodosius with Marcia, a young noblewoman from the patrician houses of Boëthius and the Symmachi. Their relationship as husband and wife was the result of the western Emperor’s desire to align his dynasty with one of the surviving families of the senatorial aristocracy; the ones who were not killed for forced into exile during the ‘Great Purge’ of the Roman Senate. Additionally, Romulus Augustus believed that the marriage between a future emperor and a daughter of a prominent aristocratic household would placate the more worrisome members of the Roman nobility, especially those who were concerned about the Imperial family’s intermarriage connections with the royal houses of the eastern Empire and the Frankish kingdom. Theodosius’ marriage to Marcia assuaged some of their reservations about the Emperor’s alliances, but more importantly it led to a greater level of competition for Romulus Augustus’ favor among the aristocracy. Considering the rewards of marrying into Pannonian dynasty, many great houses in Roman society were very interested in the prospect of future Imperial generations, all of whom could be used to bind the nobility and the ruling family closer together.

The position of the Nobilissimus Caesar was largely ceremonial and devoid of practical responsibilities except for what he is personally given by the Emperor. Nevertheless, Theodosius’ status as the heir apparent of Olybrius II naturally afforded him numerous connections with many influential members of the Roman laity and clergy, all of whom had a vested interest in the young prince’s eventual ascension as the senior Augustus in the West. However, Theodosius’ supporters also noted that he was not particularly skilled in the administrative affairs of state. Although he managed to grasp the significance of his current position and the future that has been planned for him, Theodosius lacked his grandfather’s exceptional skills in political maneuvering and manipulation; nor did he possess his father’s strong will and assertive attitude. He was a well meaning person who hoped to rule with wisdom and justice. Yet for all of his attempts to familiarize himself with the political landscape of the Imperial Court and the western Empire’s neighbors—some of which were allied to Romulus Augustus, others antithetical to his foreign policies—Theodosius had a limited understanding of how precisely the real world worked. It was this ignorance that his ‘supporters’ hoped to use to their advantage, essentially by ruling the Empire through a talentless figurehead and in the absence of a strong Roman emperor.


MARCIA (Galla Rusticiana Marcia)

• Born November 11, AD 504 (age 18)
• Daughter of Boëthius and Rusticiana
• Wife of the western Nobilissimus Caesar Theodosius

Marcia is the third and youngest offspring of Boëthius and Rusticiana. She has two siblings: a younger Boëthius and Symmachus; the former died as a child while the latter survived into adulthood. Through her father, Marcia is a member of the Anicii, a powerful aristocratic family with members in the governments of both halves of the Roman Empire. Her maternal line is linked to the Symmachi, another patrician house of great wealth and considerable influence in the political apparatus of the western Empire. As such, Marcia represents the pinnacle of the Roman nobility that exists alongside the ruling Imperial family of Romulus Augustus and Anicia Juliana. She was therefore a logical and strategic bride for the Emperor’s eldest grandson, the prince Theodosius.

Despite her highborn status and privileged upbringing, Marcia’s personal life was complicated by an early tragedy: the death of her mother who succumbed to the hazards of childbirth. Her grief-stricken father never recovered from the loss of his wife whose untimely demise he blamed on his newborn daughter. As a result of Rusticiana’s passing, the relationship between Marcia and Boëthius was devoid of any happiness. Like any child that imprinted on a parent, she initially loved her father, as expected of a dutiful daughter in civilized society, but her filial affection faded with the naïve innocence of youth which led to the realization that love was one-sided in her case. Although she was never physically abused, her cold and emotionally distant father only saw her as an asset rather than a true daughter, consequently resulting in deep psychological scars on Marcia. In contrast to the relationship with her father, she was much closer with her brothers, especially the younger Boëthius in an ironic twist of fate. His untimely death devastated Marcia. Her feelings of isolation and loneliness grew worse after her surviving brother was dispatched to Carthage where Symmachus participated in the reconstruction of the Roman administrative apparatus of Africa.

Marcia fulfilled her only real use as a daughter when she was compelled by her father into a marriage with Theodosius. By then, any remaining affection that she felt for Boëthius had long since faded into memory. She was more than pleased to be transferred out of her father’s household, having found more welcome in the Imperial family by comparison. Although she genuinely valued her marriage to Theodosius, more so because of their personal relationship than their future as emperor and empress, Marcia eventually became resentful of her husband’s seemingly innocent and demure personality. She was far more taken with the gregarious behavior and haughty attitude of Olybrius II. Since entering the Imperial family, she grew to admire her father-in-law to the extent of developing an unhealthy attraction to him. She wisely kept such feelings secret, but her overtures of seemingly innocent affection have appeared less ‘daughterly’ and more like that of an obsessive admirer with baser desires on her mind. If her secret became public knowledge, it would result in nothing less than a humiliating scandal that Suetonius would have appreciated in his lifetime.

 

[Mongo]

Somehow I get the feeling that we will be seeing a lot more of the younger brother, Valentinian. Could this be a case of the typical "spare" unexpectedly taking up the reins of power? I would not be surprised if he were better suited to the burdens of rulership than was expected of him, certainly more so than his father or older brother.

 

[ray243]

ray243: That's exactly what I was considering when I first thought about making Justinian the center of a sub-plot for TTL. Off the top of my head I'm fairly familiar with Justinian's wars, especially after researching a bit of the 6th century AD for TTL. As I told Soverihn, I'm very interested in what options he could have considered if he didn't feel compelled to restore the western provinces to the Empire. Granted, not everything in the West has been recovered by Imperial authority, but I think the presence of a resurgent western Empire could allow Justinian to focus on threats from the East, particularly the Sassanids which he won't have to bribe for peace in order to go to war in Italy and Africa.

Oh definitely. Despite the fact that Emperors are becoming less active in the field during this period, it is impossible for any Emperor to ignore the importance of military success. For an Emperor who came from a more humble background, the easiest way he could establish his authority firmly was to win a big campaign and celebrate a triumph.

If Justinian plans to launch an aggressive campaign into Mesopotamia and Arabia, it seems likely that he might want to led the campaign in person. Afterall, unlike the Gothic wars and the invasion of Africa, any attempt to invade Persia would require a massive army. Justinian could not expect a win a campaign on the cheap, and delegating command to his Generals.

He would have to move his headquarters to Antioch at the very least, and to campaign in person in order to ensure no general is being entrusted with such a big army.

 

[Dalradia]

i got this idea after mentioning about the sassanids i know it's a long shot specially now that there is talk about justinian launching a campaign in the east. anyway i found it very intriguing if mohammed instead of preaching about islam he preaches about zoroatrianism( i know that zoroastrianism has long since in a steady decline ever since alexander the great's invasion with mohammed's help or preaching he just might make zorastrianism as big of a threat to christianity ). of course the persians or sassanids brand him as a heretic or something he will then flee towards arabia where he will convert the arabs to zoroastrianism of from here on out the arabs will explode in the scene conquering probably the sassanid empire in retaliation for not accepting mohammed as a prophet (we can have a schism here the iranians who do not accept mohhamed can be similar to shia's and the arabs can be the sunni's) then expand everywhere that they can as young empires tend to do interesting huh? i just have to share this thought it's been in my head all night

 

[Romulus Augustus]

Mongo: It's definitely one possibility. Valentinian's profile will be ready soon, but suffice to say that his personality is different from his brother in some ways. At the same time I want to add more depth to his character so he's not a typical second-place prince who wants to kill his older brother just for being in his way. It could come to that as he gets older, but at the age of 15 I think he's still got at most several years left before he realizes whether he wants to be emperor, or help his brother become an effective ruler, or simply rule through Theodosius by becoming the power behind the throne. In any case, they both have to wait, short of committing patricide, because Olybrius II is next in line and he's ready to be more than just a 'junior' Augustus with limited power.

ray243: Those are some interesting points. Part of me thought he might just stay in Constantinople because he has so many projects going on there, and plus he might feel the need to keep a close eye on the nobility that doesn't seem to like him all that much. However, there are definitely advantages that I'm sure he'd be aware of in taking a more active role in a war against Sassanid Persia. He may still have to rely on generals who are more skilled in battlefield tactics and overall war strategy than he is, but they may be disinclined to consider tempting acts of treachery if the emperor is present with an army of loyal soldiers at his command. And I'm only talking about officers who harbor ambitious designs on the throne. I'm sure not all of them were scheming traitors so that will probably be another thing that Justinian considers when selecting his generals: loyalty, in addition to skill.

Furthermore, I also agree that he cannot be cheap when it comes to paying for that kind of campaign with sufficient manpower and other necessary resources. Then again, he won't have to since the money he used to buy off the Persians in the OTL can go directly into a war that the Empire would wage against them.

Dalradia: The founder of Islam in relation TTL seems a bit "in question" right now. By that, I'm referring to a discussion that happened on this thread awhile ago in which there seemed to be a consensus of people agreeing Muhammad's birth might not occur ITTL due to the fact that his OTL birth took place almost a century after the POD, and all the butterfly effects that resulted from it. That would of course remove Islam from the picture, which could impact the Middle East in any number of ways; perhaps Christianity takes Islam's place in the region, or perhaps the Middle East is fought over between the Christians (Romans and non-Romans) and the Zoroastrians.


IMPERIAL FAMILY (AD 522): PART II

HONORIA (Anicia Julia Honoria)

• Born March 4, AD 505 (age 17)
• Daughter of Olybrius II and Irene; granddaughter of Romulus Augustus and Anicia Juliana
• Wife of the eastern Nobilissimus Caesar Justinian

Honoria, the second-born offspring and only daughter of Olybrius II and Irene, is an Imperial princess of the western Roman Empire. She is the middle child of three siblings which include her older brother, Theodosius, and a younger brother named Valentinian. Through her husband, the emperor-designate Justinian, she is also destined to become empress of the eastern Roman Empire. A key member of the Pannonian dynasty, Honoria’s paternal grandparents are Romulus Augustus and Anicia Juliana. As a result of her royal lineage, the combined Roman nobility in both halves of the Empire were keenly interested in gaining access to the Imperial family by using her as a marriage asset for political gain. Much to the astonishment of Roman society’s affluent class, Honoria was married into the household of the eastern emperor Justin I in a strategic move to unite the Pannonian and Justinian dynasties into a unified Imperial household that controlled the two sides of the Empire.

Few individuals would have had cause to question the marriage if it were not for the fact that Justin and his family were originally peasants of an obscure Illyrian background. At worst, the entire arrangement was offensive to the Roman aristocracy’s sensibilities; it would have even been illegal due to the restriction against intermarriage between different social classes. Justinian’s meteoric rise through the social structure just barely qualified him for the hand of a princess of Imperial blood, and even then it was still a controversial relationship. Regardless, Justinian’s family were more than eager to align themselves with a scion of several great houses, including the present western dynasty and a few other previous Imperial families that came before the reign of Romulus Augustus. Honoria’s value was so great that she alone brought more prestige and value to Justin’s family than all of its members combined.

Honoria was not known for her maturity, being 23 years younger than her husband. Her reputation as such preceded her as it was said throughout the Empire that Honoria’s esteemed lineage was superseded only by her physical beauty. On the whole, she was known to be a flirtatious and lively princess with a vivacious spirit. In some respects Honoria was also a contradiction unto herself; she was both pretentious and precocious, an arrogant girl of high birth who delighted in amusements, yet also aware of the shrewd politics and intrigues that were rife within the environment of her upbringing. At her core, Honoria was flighty, frivolous, pleasure-loving, sensual, and willful. Born and raised in the western Empire, Honoria welcomed the opportunity to be relocated to Constantinople, the eastern capital and most beautiful city in the known world. She was never particularly close to her family, least of all her grandmother, Anicia Juliana, who was reputed to be an imperious matriarch. In the East her repressed desires soon developed into secret acts of promiscuity and infidelity, but she exhibited just enough self-control in whom she chose as lovers: men who recognized and understood the fatal consequences that awaited them if they ever revealed the princess’s unfaithful deeds through foolish gossip. Though devoid of the many disreputable qualities of the Imperial Court—the backstabbing, scheming, money-grubbing, and power-craving Imperial Court—Honoria’s licentiousness increasingly threatened to cause a scandal that would shock the Roman world to its core, quite possibly resulting in banishment or even death for the princess, to say nothing of her lovers. She came to genuinely love Justinian, but her willpower inevitably gave way to desire and passion, causing her to ‘go to town’ on many occasions.


JUSTINIAN (Flavius Petrus Sabbatius Justinianus Nobilissimus Caesar)

• Born July 27, AD 482 (age 40)
• Son of Sabbatius and Vigilantia; nephew and adopted son of Justin I
• Emperor-designate of the eastern Roman Empire

Justinian is the son of Sabbatius, for whom he was originally after, and Vigilantia. Both of his parents were peasants of an obscure and provincial background in the eastern Roman Empire. His additional cognomen, Justinianus, was the result of his adoption by the emperor Justin I, the brother of Vigilantia. Due to his advanced age and a childless marriage to Euphemia, Justin chose to appoint the son of his sister as the legal heir apparent to the eastern Imperial throne. Though his decision was genuinely motivated by Justinian’s intellect and administrative talents, he did so also because of his nephew’s considerably powerful connections with the Pannonian dynasty of the western Roman Empire.

Born in Tauresium during the late 5th century AD, Justinian was a young child when his uncle joined the ranks of the Excubitors, the Imperial bodyguards of the Roman emperor in the East. As a result of Justin’s rise through the military hierarchy, Justinian was chosen to partake in an exchange of ‘political hostages’ between the western and eastern Imperial governments. Though he was technically made a prisoner by the nature of the program, neither he or his companions were ever treated as such. The western Empire accepted a cadre of Roman citizens from Constantinople and treated them as special guests of the state; likewise the eastern Empire responded in kind to their group of Romans from the West. It was a gesture of trust and reconciliation between the two halves of the Empire, both of which were vexed by each other during the reign of Zeno. Unlike the rest of his fellow guests, most of whom were the vain offspring of the Constantinopolitan nobility, Justinian’s intelligence and desire for greater knowledge quickly gained the attention of Anicia Juliana and Romulus Augustus. He was then raised throughout most of his young life alongside the members of the Imperial family. An ardent Roman patriot and devout Catholic Christian, Justinian was uncompromising in his allegiance to the Empire, unwavering in his devotion to the Church, and absolutely determined to see both ascend to a position of temporal and spiritual mastery over the known world. The world as he knew it was brutal, unforgiving, and dark; Rome is the pinnacle of civilization, and the Christianity the light of the one true God. In his love for order and stability, and hatred for chaos and confusion, Justinian became the chief protégé of Romulus Augustus, whose vision for the future he supported to the extreme.

While he lived under the guidance of Romulus Augustus, Justinian did not seek his own ascendancy to power, but instead worked tirelessly to achieve the goals of his mentor, desiring nothing more than the triumph of the united and indivisible Roman Empire. In many deeds of the western Emperor—the reorganization and codification of Roman law, the innovative development of new architectural designs for Christian basilicas, and the discreet maneuvering of Justin to the eastern Imperial throne—Justinian had a part due to his unfailing reliability that Romulus Augustus never had cause to doubt. As heir apparent to the eastern Imperial throne, his activities extended far beyond political and religious matters. He was a lavish patron of art, architecture, learning, and literature. While he would never admit to having similar interests with the self-styled “artist” emperor Nero, Justinian was utterly determined to remake Constantinople into an even more magnificent capital; a Roman city with unrivaled grandeur and majestic splendor worthy of the eternal Empire and the Holy Church.​

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

I suppose OTL won't miss out on much with Theodora's absence. Honoria is doing her best to be TTL's Bukkake Queen who will probably be made a saint alongside Justinian in the Roman Orthodox Church.