The Official Ocean Liner Thread.
- Thread starter Hood
- Start date
SsgtC
Banned
You mean Britannic. The Gigantic name was never real. Despite the story getting repeated, White Star never intended to name the ship Gigantic. And no, they wouldn't have built a 4th Olympic class. There was no need to. They only needed 3 ships to operate a weekly Express service between Southampton and New York. They probably would have started planning a replacement for them in the late 20s. Likely a two ship class similar to the planned Oceanic.
Gigantic certainly fits the naming convention of the class though with its emphasis on size. I could see it being used without WW1 in an AU.
Presuming Prohibition happens in the US on schedule without a WW1 does White Star go into cruising in the 20's, and what ships do they use for the 'booze cruise'?
Further, lets say we have 3 Olympic Class, and a small limited WW1 with no White Star loss- does White Star's financial position improve in the 20's?
SsgtC
Banned
Except they never intended to name her that. She was always intended to be named Britannic. Even before she was laid down that was the intention.
Depends. Does the Great Depression still happen? Does the United States still cut immigration quotas? Those were the primary drivers for the Caribbean cruise market. In a more general sense, yes, White Star would still engage in offering cruises to keep their smaller ships busy in the winter when there wasn't enough traffic to keep them profitable in liner service. And they would use their smaller ships.
As for their financial situation, just keep White Star out of the hands of this scumbag and everything will be fine. It would also help to break them free of IMM, as Morgan used White Star profits to pay dividends instead of reinvesting them into the company.
Was WW1 the driver for cutting immigration quotas? Without the war or a limited one no cut? Without the post WW1 boom does the Depression still happen or would it be 'more of the 1910's/20's' going forward? - this is a little more economics than I know for this period. Lets say we don't get the Quota cut.
Who else might buy White Star in the 1920's if the line was profitable with the Big Three? Could the Ismay family buy out the IMM share?
Don't want to cause a arguement, but Snopes says otherwise: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gigantic/
I suspect Gigantic was the name as its part of the Greek Myth theme, but Titanic sinking killed that dead during planning. When she was laid down someone (at the yard?) was 'off message' and used the old name in a briefing before the Press Office got on the case.
In an AU however with no Titanic disaster I could see the Gigantic joining the service in 1914.
SsgtC
Banned
No. The drivers for the immigration cut were entirely internal. Basically it was cut for the same reason that the United States always restricts immigration: "those dirty foreigners are stealing our jobs!"
The Great Depression would have happened eventually regardless. The financial system was just too unstable to continue as it was. One way or another, the market would have crashed. It was only a matter of time.
Maybe? I had them do it in my timeline about White Star. But in that, they formed a partnership with William J Pirrie and Cosmo Duff-Gordon.
Anyone got a good timeline apart from @SsgtC where its White Star that survives rather than Cunard?
Or one where the Oceanic and Queen Mary both get built and compete with each other Bremen and Normandie?
Graphic from: https://whitestarmoments.wixsite.com/whitestarmoments/mv-oceanic-iii
I have drafted a timeline in which White Star survives due to new construction or a shorter WW1, preferably with a pod of 1917 or later.
Two cruise liners have collided. Some serious damage, but no one hurt.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-latin-america-50873559/two-cruise-ships-collide-in-the-caribbean
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-latin-america-50873559/two-cruise-ships-collide-in-the-caribbean
Clive Clusser who wrote Raise the Titanic has died.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/feb/27/clive-cussler-obituary
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/feb/27/clive-cussler-obituary
I quite like the Lew Grade line 'It would have been cheaper to lower the Atlantic'.....
I'm not 100% sure that it's a line truely uttered by Grade, but frankly, its *is* a perfect line for that movie.
Over on Rattigan's The Anglo-Saxon Social Model Expanded supplement to his excellent original timeline, the author posted a Wiki box on the sinking of the Queen Mary which was a passing entry in the main timeline. I thought I'd share here for discussion.
@Steelers94 and I where discussing the possibility of this happening, and I mentioned that in Rattigan's timeline Titanic and WW1 never happened, so given the innovations to ship design and safety, is it possible a 'perfect storm' sees Queen Mary suffering this sort of disaster?
@Steelers94 and I where discussing the possibility of this happening, and I mentioned that in Rattigan's timeline Titanic and WW1 never happened, so given the innovations to ship design and safety, is it possible a 'perfect storm' sees Queen Mary suffering this sort of disaster?
April 14th, 11.40pm Titanic has a brush with an iceberg that pops the seams on 2 compartments, and slightly into a 3rd. Watertight doors are ordered shut. Captain Smith orders the ship sounded, and the boats prepared.
The pumps can cope with the water- just.
What does the crew do next to ensure the ship floats?
The pumps can cope with the water- just.
What does the crew do next to ensure the ship floats?
Stop the ship dead ASAP, send out CQD and SOS so the passengers will have a ship to get off regardless.
Make sure all hatches and portholes are sealed and closed and divert as much energy to the pumps as possible.
Fothering is always an option, as per Ssgtc's TL, they'll definitely need something to cover up the gashes
Titanic was designed to survive this level of damage, and she happens to have the most experienced white star captain, the ships designer and the guarantee group on board, so I'd be very surprised if they screwed it up completely.
Pumps can hold, keep her stopped, do what can be done with the resources at hand and wait for carpathia. After that it'll be patching her up as best as possible and limping carefully to New York.
Olympic might do her part too if she's needed
No Great Depression? Or more of a Big Recession?
Or longer prohibition and Cunard decides some ships designed for 'booze cruising' around the Caribbean catering and has Mauritania and Columbia laid down?
Or Relaxation of the American Immigration laws under a different US Pres sees a 'new wave' of immigration leading to the need for a 2nd ship?