The Navatlacas: Heirs to Hernan and Montezuma

[Cuāuhtemōc]

But there are Muslims in the New World? That'd be interesting if you made mention on Muslim-Iberians in the Empire; maybe Cortes could trade them religious tolerance (but not approval) for loyalty; might be a nice way to attract Muslim cavalrymen to the New World, and Jewish merchants. But then again Cortes was quasi-looney (or he was full-blown crazy, I don't remember) so he might not be too keen on Muslims and Jews in the Empire. Perhaps his successor or a King down-the-line?

There are Muslims in Cortes' empire. Mostly captured Moorish medics from Diego's campaign added with the several hundred Berber Muslims they rescued from being slaughtered by Bagua Maorocoti. I think Cortes prefers having Muslims and Jews than heart-ripping pagans any day and I'm sure he's willing to give them tolerance in exchange for military service. Just like France was a good ally of the Ottomans, the Navatlacas could handle the Spaniards in the Americas.

 

[Kosta]

There are Muslims in Cortes' empire. Mostly captured Moorish medics from Diego's campaign added with the several hundred Berber Muslims they rescued from being slaughtered by Bagua Maorocoti. I think Cortes prefers having Muslims and Jews than heart-ripping pagans any day and I'm sure he's willing to give them tolerance in exchange for military service. Just like France was a good ally of the Ottomans, the Navatlacas could handle the Spaniards in the Americas.

Muslims and Jews in the New World you say? YES.

Perhaps Cortes himself then might send agents to Aragon, Granada, and Tangiers (even into the 1500s Aragon had its fair-share of crypto-Muslims) to recruit then, any Iberian and North African who'll journey to the New World. Who knows, maybe he might want to hire 100 Muslim horsemen to help with take care of business when revolts pop up. They settle down, take Native-wives and convert them to Islam, and before you know it you can have a community of Mestizo (my Castillian is limited to the artificial-classroom, excuse me if that is a racial slur) Muslims. Perhaps there might be a new classification for any Muslims and Jews and their descendants. Or the immigrant populations of Berbers/Arabs/Jews might just be clumped in with Peninsulares and their children with fellow Iberians/North Africans be Criollos and any children they have with Mestizos? Too early too be worrying about that?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Muslims and Jews in the New World you say? YES.

Perhaps Cortes himself then might send agents to Aragon, Granada, and Tangiers (even into the 1500s Aragon had its fair-share of crypto-Muslims) to recruit then, any Iberian and North African who'll journey to the New World. Who knows, maybe he might want to hire 100 Muslim horsemen to help with take care of business when revolts pop up. They settle down, take Native-wives and convert them to Islam, and before you know it you can have a community of Mestizo (my Castillian is limited to the artificial-classroom, excuse me if that is a racial slur) Muslims. Perhaps there might be a new classification for any Muslims and Jews and their descendants. Or the immigrant populations of Berbers/Arabs/Jews might just be clumped in with Peninsulares and their children with fellow Iberians/North Africans be Criollos and any children they have with Mestizos? Too early too be worrying about that?

Yes. I'm aware Aragon had huge Muslim minorities and so did much of Spain and Portugal especially in the south. Cortes towards the later years of his reign will send agents as you said to contact these Muslim and Jewish populations and offer them lucrative land grants in exchange for lifetime military service in the Navatlaca military instead of paying the poll tax like the pagans. And since Spain nor Portugal (nor anywhere in Europe save the Ottoman lands) are friendly lands for these populations to live in peace. The coast is going to be heavily settled in by these people so it won't be strange to have Muslim minorities between 15-30 percent in the entire coast and clear majorities in some cities due to the high concentration. You're going to see Navatlaca and the Spanish daughter language Navatlacano, and the dozens of creoles that would develop have extensive Berber and Arabic linguistic influence hence the name of many of the cities become somewhat Arabized.

They'll have different racial classifications in the caste system. They'll eventually be merged into the casticoti and mesticoti subgroups later on in the 1800s due to the emphasis on European appearance and blood (The culture is going to remain mainly Mesoamerican) than religious or linguistic differences.

 

[SavoyTruffle]

Yes. I'm aware Aragon had huge Muslim minorities and so did much of Spain and Portugal especially in the south. Cortes towards the later years of his reign will send agents as you said to contact these Muslim and Jewish populations and offer them lucrative land grants in exchange for lifetime military service in the Navatlaca military instead of paying the poll tax like the pagans. And since Spain nor Portugal (nor anywhere in Europe save the Ottoman lands) are friendly lands for these populations to live in peace. The coast is going to be heavily settled in by these people so it won't be strange to have Muslim minorities between 15-30 percent in the entire coast and clear majorities in some cities due to the high concentration. You're going to see Navatlaca and the Spanish daughter language Navatlacano, and the dozens of creoles that would develop have extensive Berber and Arabic linguistic influence hence the name of many of the cities become somewhat Arabized.

They'll have different racial classifications in the caste system. They'll eventually be merged into the casticoti and mesticoti subgroups later on in the 1800s due to the emphasis on European appearance and blood (The culture is going to remain mainly Mesoamerican) than religious or linguistic differences.

So nationalism replaces religion as an identifier about the same time as OTL?

 

[Kosta]

Yes. I'm aware Aragon had huge Muslim minorities and so did much of Spain and Portugal especially in the south. Cortes towards the later years of his reign will send agents as you said to contact these Muslim and Jewish populations and offer them lucrative land grants in exchange for lifetime military service in the Navatlaca military instead of paying the poll tax like the pagans. And since Spain nor Portugal (nor anywhere in Europe save the Ottoman lands) are friendly lands for these populations to live in peace. The coast is going to be heavily settled in by these people so it won't be strange to have Muslim minorities between 15-30 percent in the entire coast and clear majorities in some cities due to the high concentration. You're going to see Navatlaca and the Spanish daughter language Navatlacano, and the dozens of creoles that would develop have extensive Berber and Arabic linguistic influence hence the name of many of the cities become somewhat Arabized.

They'll have different racial classifications in the caste system. They'll eventually be merged into the casticoti and mesticoti subgroups later on in the 1800s due to the emphasis on European appearance and blood (The culture is going to remain mainly Mesoamerican) than religious or linguistic differences.

That, my friend, is good. What's the syncreto Arab/Berber-Meso American culture and Jewish-Meso American culture going to look like? Now I don't know much of anything on Islam, so I'm not sure how pagan-beliefs can be incorporated into Islam (it seems to be way less into syncretisation than Western Christianity), will it be like some African tribes have down? Judaism, well I have a little bit of knowledge on that- will perhaps holidays which aren't purely religious, like Hannukah, be slightly tinkered with to fit the New World and new converts?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

So nationalism replaces religion as an identifier about the same time as OTL?

Yes. Nationalism as in the belief of the existence of people of many ethno-linguistic and religious groups being able to live and prosper in harmony, the belief of them standing strong as one united empire. (The Enlightenment will be indeed different in ATL but it will do much wonders for Mesoamerica)

That, my friend, is good. What's the syncreto Arab/Berber-Meso American culture and Jewish-Meso American culture going to look like? Now I don't know much of anything on Islam, so I'm not sure how pagan-beliefs can be incorporated into Islam (it seems to be way less into syncretisation than Western Christianity), will it be like some African tribes have down? Judaism, well I have a little bit of knowledge on that- will perhaps holidays which aren't purely religious, like Hannukah, be slightly tinkered with to fit the New World and new converts?

Not pagan beliefs but more like customs that wouldn't necessarily contradict any of the tenets or beliefs of Islam. Islam in the Navatlaca empire will be a liberal form of Islam, much akin to that of Al-Andalus and the Ottomans. Some of the laws might be interpeted quite liberally so it can become a bit popular amongst the natives. For Judaism, Islam and Christianity, it'll be kind of like how it is in west Africa. Some religious holidays would end up being celebrated by all people. Hannukah or Christmas or Eid can be celebrated (twisted a bit) by people of all backgrounds.

Over time, the empire is going to be secularized so it'll be easier over time as religious holidays become seen as days for cultural festivals and what not.

 

[SavoyTruffle]

An important divergence here is a tolerance, even grudging, for Muslims in the Empire, which means that this will be the first state in the New World with a sizable Islamic population.

 

[Zuvarq]

Over time, the empire is going to be secularized so it'll be easier over time as religious holidays become seen as days for cultural festivals and what not.

Hmm. I can't remember if you've mentioned anything about the Day of the Dead.

Anyway, the Aztec version of the Day of the Dead started in August and lasted for a month... and doesn't Ramadan start in August too?

Navatlacaramadanmesdelosmuertos?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

An important divergence here is a tolerance, even grudging, for Muslims in the Empire, which means that this will be the first state in the New World with a sizable Islamic population.

The first out of many to come. After all, I do intend on having a Barbary Pirates of the Carribean. Captain Jack Sparrow and his Berber comrade Barbarossa.

edit: I haven't yet. I'm guessing it would be similar to OTL just with more Mesoamerican influence. A month long feast to honor the death by fasting? Brilliant!

 

[Monopolist]

Hmm. I can't remember if you've mentioned anything about the Day of the Dead.

Anyway, the Aztec version of the Day of the Dead started in August and lasted for a month... and doesn't Ramadan start in August too?

Navatlacaramadanmesdelosmuertos?

It's like Christmas - except with human sacrifices and couscous.

 

[SavoyTruffle]

The first out of many to come. After all, I do intend on having a Barbary Pirates of the Carribean. Captain Jack Sparrow and his Berber comrade Barbarossa.

edit: I haven't yet. I'm guessing it would be similar to OTL just with more Mesoamerican influence. A month long feast to honor the death by fasting? Brilliant!

Feast of fasting? What is this, some kind of Ramadan-Lent-Day of the Dead hybrid?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Feast of fasting? What is this, some kind of Ramadan-Lent-Day of the Dead hybrid?

Ain't cultural confusion just a drag? Don't forget Halloween too!

 

[SavoyTruffle]

Ain't cultural confusion just a drag? Don't forget Halloween too!

Don't you mean cultural fusion?

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Don't you mean cultural fusion?

That's exactly what I meant but also cultural confusion. The confusion of having so many different cultures and traditions unite into a badass and fun holiday for people to enjoy and fast too while dressing up and honoring the dead.

 

[Metro]

So how far South does the Empire go.

Did find out that the Chorotegas natives of Northern Costa Rica were affected by both Mayan and Aztec cultures. The Chorotegas were considered the Meso-American culture that was located the farthest South. Proof of this is that they spoke the ""Nahuatl" dialect of the Mayan and Aztecs.

Guanacaste region in Northern Costa Rica is where this cultural divide between the North and South Cultures was located. Costa Rica had plenty of fierce tribes.

Not related but found out that on there Southern border there are 4000 Huaynines natives that Costa Rica will not recognize has Costa Rican. Seems those natives tend to live right on the border. Panama will also not recognize them. Seems someone from eithier government must send someone to find out exactly on which side they are on.

Current map to show where the Chorotegas are now found.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

For at the time-being in the TL, it's as south as the Aztec empire which is still in modern day southern Mexico in our time-line. Though it will expand over time under Hernan Cortes' successors to the line of the Tlatoanitzins to a modern border somewhere deep in Central America. Not too sure yet. But it'll won't be as north as Mexico's is or deep into bordering Panama. Somewhere in between.

I never knew the information about the natives of Costa Rica and Panama. I'll be sure to include them in future updates though when the time is appropriate.

edit: Thank you for the map.

 

[archaeogeek]

For at the time-being in the TL, it's as south as the Aztec empire which is still in modern day southern Mexico in our time-line. Though it will expand over time under Hernan Cortes' successors to the line of the Tlatoanitzins to a modern border somewhere deep in Central America. Not too sure yet. But it'll won't be as north as Mexico's is or deep into bordering Panama. Somewhere in between.

I never knew the information about the natives of Costa Rica and Panama. I'll be sure to include them in future updates though when the time is appropriate.

edit: Thank you for the map.

While there was an effect, most of Costa Rica and bits of Nicaragua are considered part of the same intermediate region between the andes and mesoamerica: there's influence but culturally they're apart. The Chorotegas might be the southernmost bit of pre-colonial "Nicaragua" though, since they were a manguean people.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

The Navatlacas: Heirs to Hernan and Montezuma


Thoughts and Discussions: A Very Short Narrative


“Is this a wise move, milord? You haven't informed the rest of the Compañeros nor the lesser Pīpiltin save ourselves on deciding on a full-fledged military intervention no less actually taking a side in this little civil war in the Tlaxcalteca lands. I don't they would appreciate you taking this decision without at least consulting them for their approval at the very least [1].”

“It may be reckless, perhaps in your opinion, but I see it as a necessary move. We can not just allow the violence to simply continue unless we plan on risking it spill over to our own lands. And plus if you hadn't forgotten, the man I intend on supporting in this civil war helped us get to where we are now, including saving our lives from that blasted Xicotencatl. He's done us a favor. It's been more than fifteen years. We need to repay Maxixcatzin for his kindness....."

“Forgive me, milord but that’s not what I asked.”

Tlatoanitzin Hernán Cortés smiled. Gathered in the balcony adjacent to his palatial war room, Cortés and his close friends and commanders Pedro de Alvarado, Francisco Pizarro and Tezozomoc Yacateteltetl [2] looked out the balcony towards the island capital of Tenochtitlan, its inhabitants asleep in the dead of night. Yacateteltetl and the others could only smile as they saw the newly formed

Jenizários [3] patrolling the perimeter of the palace. They were the finest men in the entire military and were all at the disposal of the Tlatoanitzin.​

“It may not have been what you asked, Tezozomoc, but the man’s right. We trust you and your decision milord,” Pizarro announced proudly, grinning as he saw Tezozomoc’s irritated expression. The Āotomi general was a competent replacement and a able replacement for Cristóbal de Olid who was sent out on campaign of subjugation and conquest against P'urhépecha caconzi Tzimtzincha-Tangaxuan II out in the northeast of Tenochtitlan though Pizarro and Alvarado knew he was chosen in the first place because the Aztecas wanted one of their own to have a important position, though temporary, in the high command. Yet he and the others were still on good terms for the most part.​

“I know you do, my friend,” Hernán Cortés replied, “if you ever had cause to lose faith and betray me, it would have happened a long time ago when you were nothing but a minor noble fighting alongside us against the likes of Cuitlahuac and Cuauhtemoc when we besieged Tenochtitlan all those many years ago." Pizarro and Alvarado spat on the floor at the mention of the Azteca usurpers.​

“The thought of those bastardos burning in Hell makes me happy. Never again should we allow individuals like them to pose a threat to us," Alvarado exclaimed, his expression remained bitter, "but back to the subject, I agree with the Tlatoanitzin. We should support Maxixcatzin and his followers in this civil war against the other Tlaxcalteca warlords. He has done us a lot of favors."​

“And so now I imagine we are going to conquer the Tlaxcalteca lands while Maxixcatzin and his followers hold off the attackers from capturing Tlaxcala. A chance to repay an old favor, no doubt, but knowing you milord, it has a lot more to do than supporting an old friend," Tezozomoc mused, narrowing his eyes. "You never did say what you intend to get out of a result of supporting him."​

“Easy. We help him and his besieged forces hold down against the attackers while we send soldiers to destroy and crush the strongholds of his rivals. He wins and we keep a loyal ally compliant to our greater interests while weakening his kingdom in the process, making sure that he nor any of his successors down the line consider rebelling against us like those pagans did many years ago. That's why, my old friend," Cortés laughed.​

Alvarado and Pizarro grinned sheepishly but said nothing. Instead they looked out at the Jenizários guarding the place. They ran over the drills that they made them underwent, envisioning their use in battle. They knew the Tlatoanitzin planned on using the new troops in the future campaign.The two along with Tezozomoc recognized their lord's determined expression and shuffled off to take a good night's rest in their quarters, leaving Cortés with his thoughts of empire-building. Of conquest and future glory.
-----
[1] Tlatoanitzin means "lord speaker." It is the job of the Tlatoanitzin to inform the nobility on what he plans to do, especially in a decision involving war. It's considered to be nothing more than common courtesy though, take it as something similar to the President informing Congress when he's deploying troops overseas.

[2] Tezozomoc Yacateteltet - Olid's replacement while Olid is out on campaign. He's not really a noteworthy character.

[3] Jenizários - the personal army/bodyguard of the Tlatoanitzin. Jenizários are selected by random selection amongst the native Mesoamerican population; usually young boys from the age of eight to nine are recruited in by agents who then send to special academies where they would be trained in the art of warfare.




​

 

[Zuvarq]

Me gusta esta actualización nueva.

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Footnotes are added guys. And bumpity bump bump.