The Massaliot league. A Hellenistic period Massalia Timeline
- Thread starter Sersor
- Start date
260 BC. The second battle of Capua. The siege of Argigentum.
260 BC
The second battle of Capua
The new Roman consuls Scipio Asina and Gaius Duilius gathered another army of fifty four thousands Romans and allies and marched against Capua. The Pyrrhus army sieging Capua was forty four thousands(ten thousands reinforcements). Pyrrhus did not march against the Romans while he was waiting for more of his reinforcements. When he understood that reinforcements were not coming soon, he decided to fight the Romans on a plain near Capua. Pyrrhus took up position there and waited. Before the fight he sent diplomats to the Roman consuls, proposing that he could end the conflicts between Rome and the population of south Italy. He asserted that his allies recognised him as King of Magna Graecia and demanded the same recognition from the Romans. The Romans denied his request, and entered the plains from the Northwest, where they set up camp.
At dawn, the Romans started to march against Pyrrhus. On the flanks the Roman cavalry attacked the scouts and light infantry, who were forced to flee. When Pyrrhus learned that, he led his Macedonian and Thessalian cavalry to attack the Roman cavalry. His infantry, with peltasts and archers and heavy infantry, began their march as well. The Epirote cavalry successfully disrupted the Roman battle formation and then withdrew. Pyrrhus' peltasts, slingers and archers began to shoot and his sarissa wielding phalanxes began to attack. The infantry line was near equal to the Romans in length although Pyrrhus disadvantage in numbers. The Romans made several attacks, yet they could not break the phalanx, and the battle hung in the air. Unable to make any significant gains in action, Pyrrhus deployed his war elephants, held in reserve until now. The Roman cavalry was threatening his flank strongly. The Romans were again near defeat and it was again due to the judicious use of elephants against the Roman cavalry. But as the Romans were driven back to the walls of their camp, they were joined by the camp garrison and managed to turn the elephants back into the phalanx formation that Pyrrhus' troops were using. This caused chaos to Greek lines and Romans charge them back. The Battle ended in stalemate late in the evening. Again it was a bloodbath on both sides. more than twenty thousands died from both sides. This battle forced Pyrrhus to withdrew southern to Neapolis, to regroup and wait for more of his reinforcements. The Romans withdrew to Capua.
The siege and Naval battle of Agrigentum
The garrison of Agrigentum(with fifteen thousands reinforcements from the Carthaginian troops that left the battle of Syracuse) commanded by Hanno managed to call for reinforcements.With the city blocked from land and sea, a fleet of three hundred warships under Hannibal arrived in Agrigentum to relieve the blockade and help them. The Carthaginian fleet was spotted by Greek scouts and Aeneas, two hundred seventy ships fleet, abandoned the blockade to meet his enemy. On the next morning, the wind favoured the Carthaginians and Hannibal immediately set sail. Aeneas measured the risk of attacking with the wind in his bow versus the risk of letting Hannibal reach Agrigentum to relieve Hanno. Despite unfavourable conditions, the Massaliot League admiral decided to intercept the Carthaginians and ordered his fleet to prepare for battle. In the ensuing battle the Greeks enjoyed a far greater mobility, since the Carthaginians were burdened with men, equipment and provisions. The Greeks quickly gained the upper hand, using their ship’s greater manoeuvrability to ram the enemy vessels. The venemeres and octeres with their polybolos dominated the battle also. About half of the Carthaginian fleet was either destroyed or captured. The rest were saved only by an abrupt change in the direction of the wind, allowing them to flee from the Greeks. With the loss of the relief fleet, the Agrigentum mercenaries in the edge of famine, mutated and killed Hanno. After that they surrender the city to the Greeks.
By place
Egypt
The second battle of Capua
The new Roman consuls Scipio Asina and Gaius Duilius gathered another army of fifty four thousands Romans and allies and marched against Capua. The Pyrrhus army sieging Capua was forty four thousands(ten thousands reinforcements). Pyrrhus did not march against the Romans while he was waiting for more of his reinforcements. When he understood that reinforcements were not coming soon, he decided to fight the Romans on a plain near Capua. Pyrrhus took up position there and waited. Before the fight he sent diplomats to the Roman consuls, proposing that he could end the conflicts between Rome and the population of south Italy. He asserted that his allies recognised him as King of Magna Graecia and demanded the same recognition from the Romans. The Romans denied his request, and entered the plains from the Northwest, where they set up camp.
At dawn, the Romans started to march against Pyrrhus. On the flanks the Roman cavalry attacked the scouts and light infantry, who were forced to flee. When Pyrrhus learned that, he led his Macedonian and Thessalian cavalry to attack the Roman cavalry. His infantry, with peltasts and archers and heavy infantry, began their march as well. The Epirote cavalry successfully disrupted the Roman battle formation and then withdrew. Pyrrhus' peltasts, slingers and archers began to shoot and his sarissa wielding phalanxes began to attack. The infantry line was near equal to the Romans in length although Pyrrhus disadvantage in numbers. The Romans made several attacks, yet they could not break the phalanx, and the battle hung in the air. Unable to make any significant gains in action, Pyrrhus deployed his war elephants, held in reserve until now. The Roman cavalry was threatening his flank strongly. The Romans were again near defeat and it was again due to the judicious use of elephants against the Roman cavalry. But as the Romans were driven back to the walls of their camp, they were joined by the camp garrison and managed to turn the elephants back into the phalanx formation that Pyrrhus' troops were using. This caused chaos to Greek lines and Romans charge them back. The Battle ended in stalemate late in the evening. Again it was a bloodbath on both sides. more than twenty thousands died from both sides. This battle forced Pyrrhus to withdrew southern to Neapolis, to regroup and wait for more of his reinforcements. The Romans withdrew to Capua.
The siege and Naval battle of Agrigentum
The garrison of Agrigentum(with fifteen thousands reinforcements from the Carthaginian troops that left the battle of Syracuse) commanded by Hanno managed to call for reinforcements.With the city blocked from land and sea, a fleet of three hundred warships under Hannibal arrived in Agrigentum to relieve the blockade and help them. The Carthaginian fleet was spotted by Greek scouts and Aeneas, two hundred seventy ships fleet, abandoned the blockade to meet his enemy. On the next morning, the wind favoured the Carthaginians and Hannibal immediately set sail. Aeneas measured the risk of attacking with the wind in his bow versus the risk of letting Hannibal reach Agrigentum to relieve Hanno. Despite unfavourable conditions, the Massaliot League admiral decided to intercept the Carthaginians and ordered his fleet to prepare for battle. In the ensuing battle the Greeks enjoyed a far greater mobility, since the Carthaginians were burdened with men, equipment and provisions. The Greeks quickly gained the upper hand, using their ship’s greater manoeuvrability to ram the enemy vessels. The venemeres and octeres with their polybolos dominated the battle also. About half of the Carthaginian fleet was either destroyed or captured. The rest were saved only by an abrupt change in the direction of the wind, allowing them to flee from the Greeks. With the loss of the relief fleet, the Agrigentum mercenaries in the edge of famine, mutated and killed Hanno. After that they surrender the city to the Greeks.
By place
Egypt
- Callimachus of Cyrene, learned poet and grammarian, becomes chief librarian at the Library of Alexandria.
Wow,how is Pyrrhus going to replenish his losses.His army is effectively gutted in the two battles.
So what are the Egyptian wargoals?Libya?
So what are the Egyptian wargoals?Libya?
Yes both sides have huge loses.
Possible. There was a new king in Seleucid empire, Antiochus II that made Ptolemaic Egypt cautious sending more troops west. But after the major victories maybe they send some more.
If things continue like this, the major winners will be Massaliot League and Rome.
Which the Romans are likely to replenish quicker.So in your timeline's interpretation of Pyrrhus,is he only supposed to be an above average general or is he supposed to be a Hannibal level one?In this timeline and in OTL,his actual achievements seemed pretty mediocre to me,but the man was praised to no ends by his contemporaries and classical writers,and Hannibal himself even said that he's actually inferior to Pyrrhus.
Not sure about that either.Even if the Romans are able to expel Pyrrhus from Italy,they've still taken heavy losses,not to mention,most of the fighting takes place in Italy itself,so most of the loot,rape and burning will most likely take place in what was originally Roman territory.If the Romans do win,it's going to be a Pyrrhic victory(ironic) for them.
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Good point. The big winner would be the Massaliot League itself and hopefully Ptolemaic Egypt if things go right for them.
The League victory and the bloody toll the Romans had to make for a Pyrrhic victory might make it more going for it's own culture and not using the Greeks Ideas and style.
Commando Howiezter
Banned
I think Phyrrus is being a bit stupid.....
And is the quality of the Roman armies being degraded at all with mass levying?.....
Phyrrus if he can pull off a few Hannibal-esque victories might be able to turn the situation around...
And is the quality of the Roman armies being degraded at all with mass levying?.....
Phyrrus if he can pull off a few Hannibal-esque victories might be able to turn the situation around...
I find it really troublesome to believe that this is the guy Hannibal thought to be better than him.
Commando Howiezter
Banned
Phyrrus was a good commander, but strategically he was not the sharpest pencil in the box. His victories were only considered unsustainable when you take into account Rome's ability to replace their losses almost constantly.....
Which makes him highly inferior to Hannibal.I don't think Hannibal was a great strategist either,but Hannibal was usually able to deliver a high kill to loss ratio even heavily outnumbered.This guy on the other hand....Which brings the question of why the heck did Hannibal think this guy is better than him.....
So far,the guy's performing even worst than his first campaign against Rome.
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Yes Romans can replenish quicker. About Pyrrhus he is kind of a "Military genius" but he fights Romans a "military" state with lots of experience in war with new fighting techniques,etc,etc. Maybe overhyped? Probably.
Good point! "Pyrrhic victory" haha
Good point. This will surely affect the next Roman armies.
I believe the same
With it's major wins against the Carthaginians so far, could the Massaliot League send help to Phyrrus to fight the Romans?
I think he is performing the same more or less. Rome now, knows him and is even stronger than before.
I think the guy's screwed if help doesn't come from the Massaliot League.
Then the League better send some big help and soon. I do what to see the League and Romans do battle after it been fighting Carthaginians mostly so far. (And winning thus far.)
Except he's become much stronger than Rome ever did since their last encounter.He has effectively taken over the entirety of Greece,has gotten allied with two other great powers in the Mediterranean region and have rapidly overrun Southern Italy,effectively nullifying Rome's gains in the past years.
He too should be experienced to Rome's style of warfare as well.
The first Battle of Capua was even more Pyrrhic than Asculum ever was.At the very least,Pyrrhus managed to take down nearly three times as many Romans as the number of casualties he suffered during the Battle of Asculum.
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Valid points. He is wining the Romans so far, but victory its not sure at all.