Constantinople
Banned
Beutiful! Have you seen the maps for post war some people thought up: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=10468&page=13&pp=20
Its on that page anyways..
Its on that page anyways..
The Map Thread for Turtledove's Great War/Southern Victory series
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
Thande
Donor
An interesting map from B_Munro there, but I don't buy the death of Japan. By now it's got too powerful for that: if it breaks apart at all it will be from within a la the USSR in the 1990s - and even that's not very likely IMO.
He also seems to have forgotten the Italian colonies in Somalia and Eritrea.
He also seems to have forgotten the Italian colonies in Somalia and Eritrea.
Thande
Donor
I think Scarecrow's effort is probably more accurate, but I think Britain may end up as US occupied and then a US puppet, as it appears to be analogous to Japan in Turtledove's scenario.
Also, I have a feeling the entire CSA will be under US occupation for a bit(although they won't try and actually reintegrate it into the USA)
I agree that Liberia is probably the equivalent of Israel for this timeline.
Also, I have a feeling the entire CSA will be under US occupation for a bit(although they won't try and actually reintegrate it into the USA)
I agree that Liberia is probably the equivalent of Israel for this timeline.
Perhaps my colours for the U.S. and Mexico are too similar?Constantinople
Banned
Have you made a map for the fronts in 1942, with france controling quite a bit? And the US w/ occupied Ohio?
Thande
Donor
Constantinople said:
I think I'd rather wait before the whole Settling Accounts trilogy is published before attempting something like that.
In any case, I've tried putting fighting fronts on Turtledovian worlds before (Worldwar in 1943, say) and it's harder than it sounds...you end up scouring brick-thick Turtledove books for scarce references...
What somebody needs to write is an annotated or companion book for the various Turtledove series, describing in plain prose the actual history behind the novels. That way we can get Turtledove's interesting parallel history without suffering through the turgid dialog and repetition.
BTW, great maps!
BTW, great maps!
Thande
Donor
Thanks.
The problem with Turtledove is that the Great War series is first, last and only an American story. (Well, a North American story if you want to push it). Turtledove is only really interested in creating an analogy for our history 'in America', with a Confederate victory as his vehicle. This means that the rest of the world is scarcely mentioned, there is little history tying it together, and it may or may not be plausible. (I've tried writing a global timeline of the Great War series and it's murder, there's so little out-of-America information).
The problem with Turtledove is that the Great War series is first, last and only an American story. (Well, a North American story if you want to push it). Turtledove is only really interested in creating an analogy for our history 'in America', with a Confederate victory as his vehicle. This means that the rest of the world is scarcely mentioned, there is little history tying it together, and it may or may not be plausible. (I've tried writing a global timeline of the Great War series and it's murder, there's so little out-of-America information).
Thande
Donor
E.g.
1862 - Lost Orders aren't, Confederates win at Antietam. Lee campaigns up into Pennsylvania. Britain and France recognise CSA and offer to mediate a peace, being partisan on the side of the CSA.
1863 - U.S. is forced to concede independence of the CSA.
1864 - Lincoln voted out of office and replaced with a Democrat (who?)
1867 - Dominion of Canada chartered as OTL, Alaska stays Russian; Davis finishes his term and is replaced by Lee
1868 - Democrat re-elected
1870 - Prussia beats France as OTL
1871 - Germany is unified; Lee dies in office and is succeeded by his VP, whoever that is(?)
1872 - another Democrat is elected POTUS
1873 - (Unknown) elected POTCS
1875(?) - Confederates "persuade" (ahem) Cuba and, I conjecture, Puerto Rico away from the Spanish
1876 - Russo-Turkish War as OTL? Second Democrat is re-elected POTUS
1880 - James Longstreet elected POTCS, James G Blaine elected POTUS (the first Republican since Lincoln)
1881-2 - the Second Mexican War (as depicted in How Few Remain); CSA, Britain and France defeat USA and CSA gains Chihuahua and Sonora. The USA institutes changes that will lead to conscription and an alliance with Germany. The CSA's slaves are manumitted as requested by Britain and France, but remain decidedly second class citizens. Lincoln leads the left wing of the Republicans away to merge with the Socialists; the Republicans will never be a serious political force again.
1895(?) - Britain officially annexes the Sandwich Islands (OTL Hawaii)
1898/9(?) - Hispano-Japanese War - the Japanese take the Philippines, Guam, and the other Pacific possessions of Spain (Turtledove mentions this was 'just before the turn of the century').
1890s/1900s - attempts by either USA or CSA to dig a Panama Canal are vetoed by the other, with threat of war. Sometime during these decades, the Indian Territory (as Sequoyah), Sonora, Chihuahua and Cuba become C.S. states, and Montana, Idaho, Washington, Dakota (as one state), Wyoming, Utah and New Mexico (as one state) become U.S. states. The alliance structure of OTL comes into place, but Italy is a more enthusiastic ally of Germany and Austria-Hungary. Canada and the CSA introduce conscription.
1912 - the Titanic sinks (I believe this also happened in Turtledove?)
1914 - the Great War begins (after this, Turtledove's books provide a continuous record of history, at least in America).
1862 - Lost Orders aren't, Confederates win at Antietam. Lee campaigns up into Pennsylvania. Britain and France recognise CSA and offer to mediate a peace, being partisan on the side of the CSA.
1863 - U.S. is forced to concede independence of the CSA.
1864 - Lincoln voted out of office and replaced with a Democrat (who?)
1867 - Dominion of Canada chartered as OTL, Alaska stays Russian; Davis finishes his term and is replaced by Lee
1868 - Democrat re-elected
1870 - Prussia beats France as OTL
1871 - Germany is unified; Lee dies in office and is succeeded by his VP, whoever that is(?)
1872 - another Democrat is elected POTUS
1873 - (Unknown) elected POTCS
1875(?) - Confederates "persuade" (ahem) Cuba and, I conjecture, Puerto Rico away from the Spanish
1876 - Russo-Turkish War as OTL? Second Democrat is re-elected POTUS
1880 - James Longstreet elected POTCS, James G Blaine elected POTUS (the first Republican since Lincoln)
1881-2 - the Second Mexican War (as depicted in How Few Remain); CSA, Britain and France defeat USA and CSA gains Chihuahua and Sonora. The USA institutes changes that will lead to conscription and an alliance with Germany. The CSA's slaves are manumitted as requested by Britain and France, but remain decidedly second class citizens. Lincoln leads the left wing of the Republicans away to merge with the Socialists; the Republicans will never be a serious political force again.
1895(?) - Britain officially annexes the Sandwich Islands (OTL Hawaii)
1898/9(?) - Hispano-Japanese War - the Japanese take the Philippines, Guam, and the other Pacific possessions of Spain (Turtledove mentions this was 'just before the turn of the century').
1890s/1900s - attempts by either USA or CSA to dig a Panama Canal are vetoed by the other, with threat of war. Sometime during these decades, the Indian Territory (as Sequoyah), Sonora, Chihuahua and Cuba become C.S. states, and Montana, Idaho, Washington, Dakota (as one state), Wyoming, Utah and New Mexico (as one state) become U.S. states. The alliance structure of OTL comes into place, but Italy is a more enthusiastic ally of Germany and Austria-Hungary. Canada and the CSA introduce conscription.
1912 - the Titanic sinks (I believe this also happened in Turtledove?)
1914 - the Great War begins (after this, Turtledove's books provide a continuous record of history, at least in America).
Constantinople
Banned
Oh BTW panama is still part of Columbia. It ways something about how'd they I wish they'd make a canal through columbia's panama province. This is when the are rounding the horn.