The Luftwaffe, just a bit better for 1940?
- Thread starter tomo pauk
- Start date
Deleted member 1487
Just saying I wasn't 100% what you meant by 'better training'; that phrase made it sound like you meant more rather than the less/more streamlined program I said. Funny though you only mention less rigorous training AFTER I said it...
Ah no. Hitler told the military 1942. So the Nazis, or rather the only one who actually mattered, Hitler, said 1942. Poland was meant to be a limited regional war that he thought Britain and France wouldn't get involved in, which then meant they could get everything they needed for 1942 ready once rearmament was more advanced.
There was some war games in 1938 about how to fight Britain, but those plans got tossed out the window by Hitler and Goering in 1940. Führerprinzip at it's finest. You'd need to correct the flaws in Hitler's leadership style to fix the problem of planning in general. So well outside the scope of OP.
A POD in early 1939 limits what can be done, but there are three things that would make a big difference. First give the BF-109 drop tanks, the Condor Legion used them in the Spanish CW. That would effectively double their operational time over England, making them more effective bomber escorts, and allowing them to engage in more free chase missions. Use the BF-110 as fast fighter bombers, to attack high value targets like radar sites, or aircraft plants. Never issue the order to suspend any project without a completion date of more then 18 months. The order assumed the war would be a short one. Considering Hitler planned on a war with the Soviet Union, and a long term showdown with the United States they should've figured WWII would last at least as long as WWI.
Cuirassier
Banned
TBF knocking down France was far from guaranteed so thinking about sustained aerial campaigns over Britain would have been a bridge too far.
If that was the case, then it means the whole Battle of Britain was a strategically pointless waste of resources for the Germans even if they won and they went into it knowing it.
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Overdose, not so sure this early. However if he was to lose some weight and get fitter he wouldn't need the drugs, well a lot less anyway. If he can cut down on the boasts saying things that will please Hitler and telling things nearer the truth that could go a long way.
Deleted member 94680
I thought the drop tank option had been war gamed out and made no real difference?
I mean you could probably convince yourself that achieving air superiority would freak the British out enough to believe you actually could succesfully invade and call it quits. Fanciful, but not more so then "nah those division counts our increasing intelligence consistently tells us the Red Army posses sound way too high, its half that and we will destroy them at the border"
marathag
Banned
Gives them three of a kind over the pair of Deuces they held in hand.
Not a winning hand, but better than what they had.
Deleted member 1487
Nope, but when you're jumping on me for supposedly saying the same thing as you...
Not really since they were hoping that through the air campaign they could intimidate Churchill into cutting a deal. IIRC the hope was that by defeating the RAF (based on faulty intel about production rates) that the Brits would take up Hitler's offer in July for a negotiated peace deal rather than risk and invasion, which of course was not what was being discussed by the War Cabinet.
Deleted member 94680
If it’s better than what they had, it’s a worthwhile change I would say
Deleted member 94680
If that’s the way you see it, I apologise for any offence caused.
Garrison
Donor
Not if you are thinking in political terms. If the point is to convince the British its make terms or be invaded then it makes sense and honestly there wasn't much else they could do in 1940. The real problem was that by the time the BoB gets into full swing its far too late to apply that kind of political pressure.
BlackDragon98
Banned
IMHO a POD of March 1939 is too late to save the Luftwaffe.
The planes have already been chosen, the production lines have already been set up, etc.
There won't be a change from OTL in the end.
The planes have already been chosen, the production lines have already been set up, etc.
There won't be a change from OTL in the end.
Speaking of gaming it out, I created a mod for Strategic Command: WWII in Europe. The mod simulated BOB from a strategic level. One of the variants I offered was "What If " the Luftwaffe used drop tanks. There was no other changes to the scenario but the addition of extended range for the fighters. It made a huge difference. The chances of the Germans sweeping the skies clean above the British Isles tripled. It went from 25% to 75%. Based on this I suggest that drop tanks would have been a extreme game changer.
If you have the game, HERE is the mod.
If you have the game, HERE is the mod.
Deleted member 1487
IIRC the problem that there was a lack of fighters and pilots on the German side, which meant that with drop tanks they fly more per mission and get worn out quicker. Not really fixing all the issues then if they had working drop tanks. Part of the issue with the drop tanks is that the early production models in 1940 were defective for fighters (single use and the Bf109 wasn't set up to use them until August because the Bf110 was supposed to do long range escort flying and it was only found in August that they couldn't really tangle with Spitfires on their own. After all no one thought they'd be flying a strategic bombing campaign against Britain after rapidly defeating France.