This TL not only got me really interested in making my own ones and being a active member it still get's better everytime.
Thanks a lot! I try my best to come with better quality each time (sadly, not all the time I succeed).
The lucky marriage - Alternate history of the Capetian Dynasty
- Thread starter aegis03florin
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Thanks a lot! I try my best to come with better quality each time (sadly, not all the time I succeed).
I admit, I raged a bit when I read that Edouard had lost, but I then realized that the "Smaller, more professional army wins against most odds" event is way too common in AH, so I applaud it for the diversification of the "prosaic resources" used. It was a great update in terms of quality, it caught me with my pants off and they were on fire the next second I looked (the doctor says I may recuperate a part of the motion of my legs in some time) and I didnt post a comment before because I honestly didnt know how to say the things I had not to say. Continue your great job!
A family reunion
A family reunion
Motto: “The one who has come to understand that he worth nothing, has finally come to the full knowledge of his own person” [1]
The year of the Lord 1295, 6 August, Saturday, Reims
After the battle, King Philip and Constable Jean le Maigre brought together the remnants of their army and entered in Reims, to the overjoy of the crowds gathered in the streets to welcome their saviors. King Philip was received enthusiastically, being applauded and cheered by the crowds, however he was not the only one. Count Theobald of Champagne was equally greatly acclaimed, even more than the king himself, cheered as their champion. Philip make the enchained prisoners parading through the streets, as a display of force. Edouard was received with great curiosity by the population. In one hand, he was portrayed as the incarnation of Antichrist, a bastard that have married a wild and have become a barbarian himself, and so on. On the other hand, he was portrayed by the propaganda (paid by himself) as the true heir that was chased away by the machinations of the great magnates of the kingdom who wanted to take the power for themselves. Therefore, he was the lost prince who come back to take his right and chase the treacherous ones who occupied the throne. The citizens of Reims however carried a great deal of raccoon toward Edouard for him to put them to siege and starving them and bombarding their walls and ravaging their lands. Therefore, they throw at him with rotten eggs and garbage.
Chained and half-naked, Edouard walked calmly through the streets ignoring all these. He was uncertain what would be his fate now and, probably, he was resignedly with whatever that fate would be. One thing was nearly certain, he will dinner after all in Reims that evening. He bet and lost, he fought and was defeated, he considered himself wiser and more intelligent than the enemy and he was outmaneuvered, he believed that he could manipulate people and play with them as toys but what he did not taken in consideration was the fact that people can action unpredictable. He have finally understood what Gregoire de Flers have done. He had not betrayed him one last time on the eve of battle, but instead he have tried to lure the enemy into the trap that they were supposed to have prepared for them during the war council. It was his form of redemption. But he did not believed that people could change and now he paid the price. Therefore, Edouard considered this a natural outcome, an obligatory lesson of humbleness that God prepared to him so he could repent his sins before meeting his Creator. What was the fate of Gregoire? He have no idea. In fact, no one have any idea. He was never seen after the battle, by any sides and his body was not recognized among the fallen. Maybe he was among the fallen ones, finding his end on the common graveyard dig on the battlefield. Or maybe he escaped and was now hiding… God knows. Now, the people of Reims acclaimed the victor and mocked the vanquished.
King Philip, however overjoyed at this spectacle. It was his consolation for Champagne’s stealing his victory. Once in Reims, the two half-brothers had their first private meeting down in the dungeons of Bishop’s palace which hosted the Royal suite. Philip wanted to break his brother will and punish him for everything he had done. Therefore, he visited him in the dungeon, finding him sitting on a stone bench. To his displeasure, he did not stand up when he entered in the cell. He started to move around him, measuring him with his looks from above. Edouard did not reacted to his presence, like he have not even stepped in the room. Next to him, on the floor, there were the rest of his dinner, a bowl of porridge. Well, it was not his poorest meal, he have seen worse.
“I can kill you if I want” finally Philip broke the silence, annoyed that Edouard was still ignoring him.
Now, Edouard finally look at him. The king was little more than half his age. He was still a boy, a spoiled and arrogant and bumptious boy who believed that he was more man than the true men. Indeed, he shared the features of their father and their grandfather. Well, it seems that is not as bastard as he have thought. He smiled to him sarcastically.
“Kneels, beg forgiveness and I might spare your miserable life. You are in my power now,” continued Philip to taunt him.
“That was what Pilate said”, finally responded Edouard, “but God forgive me, I’m not a Christ. Kill me if you wish. What stops you? As long as I breathe, I am a threat to you.”
“You are nothing, bastard! Look at you. Naked, dirty, enchained, defeated. Should I continue?”
Edouard raised from the bench, standing up in front of his brother, towering him with his stature. Now, it was he who looked down.
“Well, as the Prophet once said, “naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return.”[2] So I ask you once again, what stops you? With one blow you can solve all your problems. But do it yourselves… if you are man enough. John of England for all his weaknesses, had at least the guts to pierce his nephew with his own hands. Do you have at least his courage?”
Nearly a century of Capetian propaganda portrayed John Lackland with the darkest colors as an extremely vicious, weak, coward and murderous king, which was above everything, a kinslayer. Being compared with John provoked indignation and disturbance inside Philip's toughs.
“Why should I? You are nothing. No, I will not kill you. You will live so you can think every single day from the rest of your life, at how you have lost everything. Your liberty, your army, your wife, your children...”
For the first time, Edouard seems shacked by his words. His eyes were wide opened and they seems to ask by their own will, what have happened with his wife and unborn child. Philip saw the grimaces on his face and continued.
“Oh, you didn’t know!? My men told me that your wife was of a rare beast… They said that she was a true mare! She satisfied an entire company, so they brought their horses too…”
It was the final stroke. Edouard collapsed to the floor, gazing at a wall, not saying anything, not doing anything. He was lost. He was broken. He was nothing indeed. Philip triumphed at his sight. He returned to his quarters more satisfied than ever. That night he sleep like a baby.
***
The year of the Lord 1295, 31 August, Wednesday, Paris
After resting several more days in Reims, time for the dead to be buried, he headed back to Paris, entrusting Jean le Maigre to hunt down the rest of Edouard’s men with his Grand Companies. The Royal cortege moved slowly, stopping in each town, in each burg, in each village on their route, a route which was not the shortest one, as it firstly goes north-west to Soissons and Compiegne before turning south to Paris. Philip wanted that everybody see him as a victor.
After 111 miles and three weeks, the royal procession arrived at the gates of Paris, making its entrance with great pomp, trying to repeat the success in Reims. Once again, King Philip paraded the prisoners through the streets, hoping the same reaction from the Parisian population. However, things were a little bit different now than were three weeks back in Reims. The victory fever had dissipated, being overcome by the death tool and the huge costs of the war, toppled to the overall costs of the crown spending. Paris was never under the treaty of being sacked by the “barbarian hordes brought by the bastard”, however they were harshly taxed to contribute to the war effort. Now, the King make its entrance in the city like a great conqueror, but what he had conquered? He have barely defeated an army twice smaller which have no (or nearly) knights. Well, he have defeat it but not destroyed it. The enemy had regrouped and was still freely pillaging the Kingdom. And if the rumors were true, he had barely escaped with life, being saved by a footmen who had literally drag him from the grips of the enemy.
But everybody come to see the Bastard. Were the rumors true? Was he half-beast, half-man? Was he a savaged heathen? What the crowd saw that day marching enchained on their streets was a tall and well build man, with a slightly unkempt beard cause of his detention, who looked very, very similar with the Great King Philip III. Or at least how the old men remember it. Nevertheless, the Bastard seems a walking statue, devoid of any emotion.
King Philip intended to humiliate Edouard once more and to display his power, but instead he only managed to show Edouard to the people. The Clergy stigmatize him, calling him a son of the Beast, one who made a pact with the devil. The royal propaganda call him a barbarian, a savage who wanted only to pillage and destroy. But what if the rumors spread in the taverns were true? What if he was the chosen one to brake the chains of slavery? To end the inequity and put halt to the greed of the nobility? To finally free the people and to give them power as his great-grandfather had started to do [3]?
Instead throwing at him with garbage like in Reims, the Parisians did nothing, only watching him in silence. Some even encourage him to not give up. Maybe the money send by Edouard were better spent in Paris than in Reims, maybe his agents had better success in the capital, or maybe the Parisians have already enough with Philip’s stile of government and his mother who become less and less popular.
Philip was extremely displeased by the Parisian lack of enthusiasm for his triumphal return. He had fought bravely, leading the attack that brooked the enemy center, killing many enemies and they saw only the fact that he had fallen and was saved by a footmen. Instead they appraised Champagne for his maneuver on the flanks. He was a knight and warrior as good as him! Fortunately, Champagne was not present that day. He have released him from his duty and let him in his county to supervise the recover from the damages provoked by the war. Thus, he could not see his face anymore. His uncle Louis also had left for his Kingdom, invoking urgent matters and the wound he received on the battlefield. He was the only one to reap the glory, but the glory made itself awaited. The Parisian scum was so ungrateful!
The letter asking his de-legitimization and prompt excommunication was already sent to Rome, accompanied with another one that inform the Holy Siege that the revenues of the French and English Church will be kept that year by the crown to cover the cost of the war. The Pope, eager to appease the King quickly agree with everything.
The King was already in bad mood when he entered in the renovated Great Hall of the Royal Palace. The other works were still ongoing but at least the Great Hall was ready. The hall was greatly expanded broth in area as well as in height and a big throne was built at one end, while great arks and big windows covered in stained glass allowed the light to enter from all sides, like in a cathedral. The walls were decorated with huge banners carrying the arms of each realm were the King was suzerain.
The many lords from France as well as several others from England, Brittany, Aquitaine and Bas-Loraine, were gathered there, waiting for him. His mother was staying next to the throne. Next to her was count of Flanders. Philip make a triumphal entrance, followed by two of his personal guards, with all the presents shouting “Vivat Rex in aeternum!”. After he felt reborn on the battlefield, now he felt like being crowned for a second time. The barons felicitate him for the victory before bringing to his attention that there were many lords who have fallen in the battle and therefore their inheritance shall be addressed. Some fiefs had no direct heir, while other have multiple ones who start quarrel over the succession. Philip entrust them that he will personally take care of the every single case, something he was not envy and not really have intention to do it. Now, he wanted to rejoice of his moment of glory.
After debating several urgent matters which could not suffered delay, Richard de Montfort put on discussion the most stringent one: the King shall ensure the continuity of the dynasty and choose a wife… of course, after consulting his nobles. It seems that there was a Scottish princess on good age which could be a perfect match, avoiding the political consequences generated by the former candidates. That will cement the Scottish alliance and secure the northern border, preventing a Plantagenet resurgence (from Ireland). Montfort pointed the fact that the House of Dunkeld had greatly raised in prestige later time with good matches, while they are descended on the maternal line from Princes Marie de France, daughter of Philip Augustus. And their women were renown by their fertility. The people of England will greatly appreciated the match… Well, most of the people… the northerners!
Philip gratify the count for bringing this important mater to attention. Indeed, he was concerned about the continuity of the dynasty and the future of the Kingdom, and therefore he had already decided about the marriage problem. As King in all his rights, he have chosen his future queen. He will marry Philippa of Flanders, daughter of the Count Thierry of Flanders and Hainault and titular Emperor of Constantinople, a title which will pass to his daughter, the future Queen of France and England.
The nobles were speechless. Most of them had already expressed their opinion against such a marriage. Flanders already have way too much influence at the court. Philip was blinded by Flanders money and the promise of a void title. The Emperorship of Constantinople do not bring anything, except a great embarrassment. The rumors said that the Scottish princes was not renowned by her beauty, but the Flemish one wasn’t either. It was all about money and political machinations of Queen mother. Philip was forcing their hand, taking advantage on the fact that he was victorious in a war on which they, the nobles of France and England, had bleed. They have carried the hardest part and they were the greatest hit. Paradoxically, the power of the crown have increased after the slaughter on the Red Field. There were few Great families in France which did not mourn the loss of at least a member. The nobles bleed more than ever, losing their lives, their men and their resources, while the king had still the Great Companies to enforce his will. Flanders have also lost a son. His first born and heir, count Albert of Cambrai, have died from the wounds taken on the battlefield. While he had other sons, the loss of the eldest was a great hit. The entire house was in mourning so the wedding will not happen soon. It will not be appropriate. Maybe next year. Indeed, the further negotiations will establish the wedding on the first Sunday in March next year. Not every nobles were opposed to this marriage. A large chunk of the southern English ones looked favorably to a Flemish match as they were greatly involved in the wool commerce with the Flemish towns. But the towns from Ile de France, Normandy, Vermandois and Artois were directly competing with the Flemish ones and they fear of unfair competition.
Seeing how her son imposed his will upon nobles make the queen dowager Christina very happy and proud. She rejoiced to finally see her political moves bringing fruits. The nobles were brought to the knees and were now forced to accept the match. The bastard seems to have being useful after all! His purpose have now ended. It was the time to put an end to this story.
“My Dear Son, my Lord and my King” said her to Philip. “The time of judging the traitorous bastard have come. You should make an example of him so all the traitors and enemies of the crowns to see what will happens to them if they raise against you! Put him in gallows as he deserve!”
“My Lord King” intervened the count of Blois. “I hope you do not doubt of the loyalty and devotion of any of us here present.”
Everyone in the hall confirmed, strengthening his words by approval gestures, so he continued.
“The Bastard have done wrong to raise against you Sire, against the Crown and God’s will, but nevertheless is still your brother. You cannot kill your own brother regardless what he had done to you. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ command us all to pardon our brothers who sins against us not once, not twice, not seven times, but seventy-seven times[4]! Send him to a monastery, sent him to a prison, do whatever you wish but do not spill his blood! Do not be like Cain who had killed his brother.”
“He is a traitor and a traitor deserve only death!” intervened Christina furious that Blois openly challenged her. “You have only one brother! Your brother Louis!”
“Did I?” suddenly Philip asked his mother.
His eyes were red out of furry. Christina was speechless. She have never seen him in this way. Philip always was respectful. He have always listen her.
“Did he is my brother? My full brother? The son of my father?” asked him further.
Everybody was shocked by his words, but Christina more than anyone. Her face was white like the marble.
“Philip, my son, how can you ask so?” said her.
“Well, I’m ask you! Did Louis is my true brother? Is he the price of blood and son of France? Or is he a bastard as well? Did you fornicated with Champagne[5], as everybody speak about?”
“How dare you?”
“I am the KING, women! I’ve ask you a question and therefore you should respond!”
“Our enemies spread lies, Louis is your brother, he…”
“Well, I’m ask you! Did Louis is my true brother? Is he the price of blood and son of France? Or is he a bastard as well? Did you fornicated with Champagne[5], as everybody speak about?”
“How dare you?”
“I am the KING, women! I’ve ask you a question and therefore you should respond!”
“Our enemies spread lies, Louis is your brother, he…”
“Ask my question!” shouted the King that the entire hall freeze in shock. “Did you fornicate with Champagne? I’ve heard the soldiers speaking. I’ve heard the people speaking. I’ve heard the nobles speaking. And they are all right! When I’m looking at him, I do not see the image of my father. No, Louis is not my brother but the bastard of Champagne! I have no true brothers. I’m alone in this world. All my brothers are bastards.”
The audience was stunned. A dreading silence reigned on the hall. Only Philips voice and the noise of his steps on the marble floor were heard. And he was not stopping here.
“You ask me to kill my bastard brother, but I will not stain my hands with fratricide blood. Enough blood was spilled for cause of my father weaknesses. Louis will join the Church, departing tomorrow for the abbey Vaux-de-Cernay[6] He will be tonsured as a monk at his very arrival.”
Poor Louis, who was witnessing the entire scene with stupor and shock, was puzzled with contrary thoughts. His mother have told him that today he will receive from his brother a great appanage to celebrate the victory against their enemies. Maybe Poitou. Maybe Cornwall as well. But now, his brother call him bastard and he send him to a monastery! What was all this madness?
As for the other bastard”, continued the King, “he will never see the light of the sun again. Tonight, he will be sent to Chateau de Gisor where he will be imprisoned in the deepest of its dungeons, so he will have more time to repent for his sins.”
Actually, Philip even toyed with the idea to have his half-brother blinded, so he literally could not see the light of the sun again. But he quickly chased his thoughts. He is not a heathen chieftain or a Sarasin Sultan or a heretical Greek Despot to do such a barbarous act. No, he was a Christian King of the greatest Kingdoms in Christendom. He was civilized and merciful.
"And you, Madame”, turned him to his mother, “you will leave tomorrow for Montlhery and wait there until we call you back to our court.”
Montlhery was a powerful royal castle situated on the road from Paris to Orleans, used rarely as royal residence, having more a military role. The castle was situated atop of a cliff and had its keep, built by Philip Augustus and expanded by Philip the Great, situated on the other extremity from the gate. Full of weapons and soldiers, it was a cold and inhospitable place for a queen to live, especially one who get used with the life in capital. After waiting a few moments to let his words make their effect, he continued:
“I am the King so this is my final judgement and decision!”
And he then left the hall letting everybody confused and intrigued. Philip felt triumphant and powerful for the first time after Reims. And then his gory and power was shadowed by Champagne, or was hidden in the darkness of the dungeon. Now, it was all in public and there was no one to shadow his aura. He have just show everyone that he is the true master, that he is the true King, that he is not a puppet in the hand of his mother, as many considered. No, he is the sole and absolute master over the two kingdoms and two duchies.
After sorting out of the hall, letting the nobles discuss the news and quarrel among themselves, the King was approached by the commander of the guards and one of his trustful men, Jaques de Montigny, knight of the Royal Household and the second son of Lord Robert of Montigny. When they were alone, the knight said to him with slow voice.
“My Lord King, the enemies are still not fully destroyed. They might try to rescue the bastard from Gisor. I might advise you to strengthen its garrison.”
“Of course Sire Montigny, we will send 100 archers and 100 crossbowmen to strengthen its garrison. But the bastard will not go there… No, his place will be taken by one of his men. Pick one yourself. Try to found one resembling him a little.”
“Alright, my Lord, but what shall we do then with the bastard?”
“He will leave tonight as well, but for Chateau Gaillard. I entrust you to find a way to get him there in secret. Nobody shall know who he is or were they go. Soon after, you will strengthen the garrison with men and provisions. Who is the commander of the garrison there?”
“I’m not sure. I think it’s a low rank sergeant… I need to check.”
“Find if he is a trusting men. If he is, then offer him a lavish recompense and I will raise him in rank, maybe even knighting him. However, no one of his men shall know the identity of the prisoner, except him and three other very trusted men. They will be the only one to interaction with him.”
“I beg your pardon my Lord, maybe I do not understand the affinities of politics and strategies, but why such secrecy?”
“Cher Jacques, I might have defeated some of my enemies, but not all of them. Soon, other will go out in the light and the bastard would be their perfect weapon against me. Gisor will attract them as a honeypot attract flies. And those flies will remained stuck there.”
“But… if so, wouldn’t be your little brother also dangerous?” asked Montigny perplexed.
“No. Edouard is thousand times more dangerous. He had the blood of my father, while Louis… sadly he has not. So, keep your eyes and ears large opened and your mouth shut.”
“Of course Sire Montigny, we will send 100 archers and 100 crossbowmen to strengthen its garrison. But the bastard will not go there… No, his place will be taken by one of his men. Pick one yourself. Try to found one resembling him a little.”
“Alright, my Lord, but what shall we do then with the bastard?”
“He will leave tonight as well, but for Chateau Gaillard. I entrust you to find a way to get him there in secret. Nobody shall know who he is or were they go. Soon after, you will strengthen the garrison with men and provisions. Who is the commander of the garrison there?”
“I’m not sure. I think it’s a low rank sergeant… I need to check.”
“Find if he is a trusting men. If he is, then offer him a lavish recompense and I will raise him in rank, maybe even knighting him. However, no one of his men shall know the identity of the prisoner, except him and three other very trusted men. They will be the only one to interaction with him.”
“I beg your pardon my Lord, maybe I do not understand the affinities of politics and strategies, but why such secrecy?”
“Cher Jacques, I might have defeated some of my enemies, but not all of them. Soon, other will go out in the light and the bastard would be their perfect weapon against me. Gisor will attract them as a honeypot attract flies. And those flies will remained stuck there.”
“But… if so, wouldn’t be your little brother also dangerous?” asked Montigny perplexed.
“No. Edouard is thousand times more dangerous. He had the blood of my father, while Louis… sadly he has not. So, keep your eyes and ears large opened and your mouth shut.”
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[1] Approx translation from https://www.ioanguradeaur.ro/744/smerenia/
[2] Book of Job 1:21
[3] King Philip the Great had passed the law of ending serfdom short time before leaving for the Iberian Crusade from it he never returned. In the following civil war, all these was pretty much undue by the nobles who tried to enforce it back. King Charles re-instituted the liberation of the serfs across the realm but it was never enforced and therefore it applied only in the royal demesne and even there not uniformly.
[4] From Matthew 18:22
[5] It’s referring to Theobald V called “The Troubadour”, father of the actual count of Champagne, Theobald VI… Some dynasties still have little imagination in naming their children
[6] A Cistercian fortified (especially ITTL) monastery for men, founded in 1118 and situated in the Ile de France, some 45 Km west of Paris. One of its monks, Pierre des Vaux de Cernay, was one of the chronicler for the Albigenses Crusade.
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As you have observed, I use a lot of religious references. Well... it is mainly because the Religion was constituent part of the Medieval life. It also add a specific flavor to the text. I hope you do not dislike it.
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I might manage to sneak another chapter before my leave.... even if it will be a small one...
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Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmm son! I gasped for a while in horror while I read what happened to Elizabeth. What horror! I hope this is not the end of Edouard, he has still so much he can do! Please don't make him the literal "Prisoner with an Iron Mask"! And ELizabeth! WHat will happen to her? And her son? Did she survive? Will she meet Edouard ever again? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa the hype and the questions are killing me! awoeghteng+awnrgawn+awoergiawe. Great update all around. Liked the part when Phillip displayed his authority AND doubts in front of the entire greater nobility of the realm.
Sorry, I might not have being very explicit in the last two chapters... Elizabeth and her son are fine. They evaded from the battlefield with some 7.000 men grace of Saruch Egher intervention which instead led to Edouard's encirclement by Champagne. If Egher would have charged Champagne, Edouard would have escaped and maybe turn the fate of the battle, but Elizabeth would have being dead or captured by Pierrepont's men and the garrison of Reims. We will hear from her soon.
So, in their discussions, Philip was annoyed that it wasn't he who was winning the discussion and really pissed of by his comparison with John Lackland. And therefore he invented the fact that Elizabeth was dead, in a worse way possible to break his half-brother. And it worked! That give Philip the impression that if he is aggressive and could shock the others, he will win. This, coupled with others, led to the Great Hall scene...
I hope it's more clear.
PS: I am very opened to feedback and critics. I'm more scared to have nobody saying nothing then people saying is wrong or crappy or have no logic...
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Sorry, I might not have being very explicit in the last two chapters... Elizabeth and her son are fine. They evaded from the battlefield with some 7.000 men grace of Saruch Egher intervention which instead led to Edouard's encirclement by Champagne. If Egher would have charged Champagne, Edouard would have escaped and maybe turn the fate of the battle, but Elizabeth would have being dead or captured by Pierrepont's men and the garrison of Reims. We will hear from her soon.
So, in their discussions, Philip was annoyed that it wasn't he who was winning the discussion and really pissed of by his comparison with John Lackland. And therefore he invented the fact that Elizabeth was dead, in a worse way possible to break his half-brother. And it worked! That give Philip the impression that if he is aggressive and could shock the others, he will win. This, coupled with others, led to the Great Hall scene...
I hope it's more clear.
PS: I am very opened to feedback and critics. I'm more scared to have nobody saying nothing then people saying is wrong or crappy or have no logic...
Much better now. I was really worried. And it is not wrong, it is everything but crapy and it makes a lot of sense actually, so you dont have to worry. What consequences will all of this have for the future, I wonder...
After catching up on the past few updates I am still thoroughly enjoying the timeline, and I for one am glad Edouard lost. He could have carved out his own kingdom and been happy almost anywhere else it seemed, yet he had to try for the one he couldn't have.
And I am also with CountofDooku, reading your timeline has helped convince me to try writing one of my own
And I am also with CountofDooku, reading your timeline has helped convince me to try writing one of my own
Thanks guys!
A friend of mine had a word: "see the others, you get courage".
I was long time hesitant to write timelines (especially because my grammar) but I've said "screw it! I will write. if someone will read, great! if not, it will be a good practice to learn English". And I was lucky! I had the chance to find great people which read the timeline and provide feedback, so it encourage me to continue. While I might have lost some on the course (maybe the story become too divergent than OTL, my style changed over the time, etc.), other come!
So, thank you all!
As I've said, there will be one more chapter before a break. I might not be able to wrap up everything for France and England in this chapter but... I will try to go as further I can in the story.
"See" you soon!
A friend of mine had a word: "see the others, you get courage".
I was long time hesitant to write timelines (especially because my grammar) but I've said "screw it! I will write. if someone will read, great! if not, it will be a good practice to learn English". And I was lucky! I had the chance to find great people which read the timeline and provide feedback, so it encourage me to continue. While I might have lost some on the course (maybe the story become too divergent than OTL, my style changed over the time, etc.), other come!
So, thank you all!
As I've said, there will be one more chapter before a break. I might not be able to wrap up everything for France and England in this chapter but... I will try to go as further I can in the story.
"See" you soon!
The field of glory
The field of glory
The year of the Lord 1295
While King Philip was busy to have his triumphal march in his capital, Le Maigre had the difficult task to catch and destroy the remaining mercenaries which now followed Elizabeth and her baby boy with a fanatical devotion. They were fewer and fewer but nonetheless, decided to protect the child. Elizabeth have few options to do: wandering across France or retreating eastward. Maybe the Emperor will allow her free passage… so she can go to her father. But further she will go, less chances to return she has. Her husband lays in chains, she could not abandon him. But were to go? Staying in France right now seems impossible. Le Maigre was on their trails and the Champagne countryside was rather hostile. They need a safe ground to lick their wounds and protect the child. Some mountains will be better, but there were few mountains nearby and the closest were across the border in the Empire. That will further complicate the situation. But Elizabeth decided to protect the child first and therefore headed north-east to the forested Ardens. Going there will allow her to stay close to the French realties, on the Empire but still on the lands that theoretically own fealty to the King of France and England as their Duke of Bas-Loraine. From there, they could established themselves in a safe base and conduct hit and run expeditions to their enemies and maybe they might save him. Maybe, the Lothringians will acknowledge the young Charles Alexandre[1] as their overlord and will provide a stronger base for recovering their right.
Around her remained little more than 6.000 men but they were all excellent warriors, veterans soldiers and very mobile. They could outmanoeuvre any other force sent to catch them. Actually, they were so dangerous than Jean le Maigre was extremely cautious to engage them even if he had twice their number. However, when le Maigre realized the direction they were heading, he decided to catch them when they will cross the Meuse River. He sent messages to the Counts Albert of Porcien, Albert of Rethel and to Viscount Godefroi of Mézières, all vassals of Champagne to gather their forces and try hinder the enemy by all their means. But despite all their efforts, the Company of the Iron Fleur de Lys was always escaping their encroachment. After more than a month of campaigning, le Maigre found with stupor that he enemy have successfully managed to cross Meuse 10 miles away he believed to have cornered them. During all these periods he suffered continuous attrition at the hands of enemy hit and run tactics. He have not paid his troops and he was running out of food. They were tired and with low morale. How can the bitch keep her men on the field? How can she paid them? They will not fight for free, isn’t they? Therefore he decided to return to Paris, with empty hands.
Once across the Meuse, Elizabeth contacted the various nobles from the counties of Namur, Chiny, Luxemburg, Looz, Juliers (Julich), Hoorno, Salm, Limburg and Brabant as well as from the Bishoprics of Liege and Bouillon, and from the abbey of Stavelot, one of the richest and most powerful autonomous abbey from the entire Duchy, asking their support. If the Brabant itself was quite pro-Philip, grace of his mother involvement in striking a deal with the Norwegians in Flemish and Brabantian favour, the rest of the nobles were less loyal and more opportunistic. In one hand, they could use this occasion to evade the French influence, and on another hand, to strike a blow against the Flemish power which worried them now more than ever.
After everything seemed to have being lost, a small hope appeared at the horizon. From her base in the mountains Elizabeth conducted lighting strikes against Hainaut and Flanders, as well against the royal powerbases in Brabant and Namur. These action catch the attention of the Lothringian nobility which start to show her limited support. But that was not all. Spotting the opportunity to give further headache to King Philip, Emperor Albert von Habsburg recognized officially Edouard and his son Charles Alexandre, as rightful Dukes of Bas-Loraine instead Philip, by right of primogeniture. It was the payback time for nearly a century of French meddling in the Empire affairs. Soon, Luxemburg, Julich and Liege throw their support behind them. Seeing the Flemish lands pillaged by Elizabeth and her savage mercenaries was irresistible. They were followed by other nobles who openly or not, help Elizabeth with money, provisions and moral support. It was little, but better than nothing. Furthermore, she was secretly contacted by disgruntled French nobles who give her money and important information. Philip was preparing a campaign against her to take back Bas-Loraine, but it will be only next year after his marriage. Most of these nobles did not wanted to betray the King and Kingdom, they did not wanted to see that baby on the throne, but they wanted Flanders to go down. They wanted his lands burned, his towns sacked, his armies shattered and cut into pieces. They could not action directly, so… why not helping the ones who could!? However, the most important information received by Elizabeth was the location were Philip keep Edouard.
The primary objective for Elizabeth (after raising her son), remained to save her husband. When she found were they keep him, she organized a rescuing party and entrusted Saruch Eger and Bernard de Joinvile with the task of saving him. Initially, she wanted to send only Joinville, as he knew better the environs, however she changed her mind. Saruch should be the one who shall save him, as payment for not have done it on the battlefield. She send messengers to the French nobles asking them for help in this endeavour. After long preparations, they decided to take their chance during the Christmas Eve, when the guards might have being less vigilant.
In a lighting campaign which seed terror in the hearts of the enemies, Elizabeth and her men stormed Namur and conquer it in a blood bath at the end of November 1295. Namur was the ducal capital of Bas-Loraine and was one of the seats of French power from where they projected influence in the region. Losing it, was a direct affront to the power, authority and legitimacy of Philip as Duke, while greatly strengthened Elizabeth position. After the massacre, the population acclaimed the young baby boy as their prince. With Namur in the hands of the Company of the Iron Lilly, the raids against Flanders and Brabant increased in frequency and audacity.
But Flanders was not idle either. He raged for the loss of his son. He raged for seeing his lands pillaged. Yes, he was busy to organize the wedding of his daughter… a big spending, but that do not means he will let those savage to burn his lands at will. Back in Gent, he summoned the estates and parliaments of Flanders and Hainaut and ask them for founds. Reluctantly or not, they agree. They did not liked seeing their lands pillaged either. In short time, Thierry managed to rise a huge sum of money and recruited thousands of mercenaries. The lands and cities of Flanders were always rich… and they became richer and richer. That was why their enemies were jealous on hem. His future son in law had promised to send help but it seems that he diverted his great companies to quell a peasant rebellion in Maine. What a short sided! His daughter will know how to… “drive” him to the right direction. He have learn her well. Or maybe that piece of… want to let him to carry the heavy fights alone so he could come and brush aside the remnants and claim victory? But why should he deliberately weaken his father in law? His only real and devout supporter? No… it could not be. Lately, he seems to see conspiracies everywhere. He must to take it easier with that!
***
The year of the Lord 1295, 25 December, Saturday, Gisors Castle
It was late in the evening but there was enough light coming from the stars and the moon who reflected their pale light on the white fields covered by fresh snow. After the snowing from previous days, the sky was now clear, without a single cloud. And thus was cold, dam cold. In the darkness, two hundred men, dressed in dirty white, slowly approached the castle’s northern walls. They carried light weapons and only padded armor beneath the camouflage linen. Even their visages were covered.
Saruch Egher wanted to attack a day before, but Joinvile convinced him to wait another day, on the Christmas Day. The spies inside the castle inform them that tonight, many soldiers were out of duty, while the commander of the garrison have given them permission to drink, celebrating the Christmas. At this hour, most of them should have being drank and sleepy. The outer moat was frozen by the cold and therefore they could freely crossing it, without being bottled up on a bridge. Thy approached the castle but waited for a signal coming from the walls. They have two men inside the castle. One of them was an old knowledge of Joinvile, who recruited another one. Both received big sums of money for their collaboration. However, with hours passing waiting the signal in the cold, both Egher and Joinvile start to doubt of the plan. What if they were discovered? What if they changed their minds? What if they betrayed them? All these through disappeared when they saw on the walls a torch waving: three waves, then nothing, and one more wave. It was the signal. They could go.
The first men crossed the ice and climbed the outer walls on the ropes that their accomplices have thrown them. Once on the walls, they throw more ropes for the others to climb. They spread through that section off the walls to neutralize the remaining guards. That was the easy part. Now, they should do the difficult part.
The castle itself was situated on a top of a steep motte, while the outer wall curtains were situated far apart from the hill, creating a murderous zone. Being a royal big and important castle and holding an important prisoner, Gisors have an unusual large garrison. The garrison was in fact divided in two, a smaller one inside the inner castle, and a lager one defending the outer walls. This second garrison numbered several hundred men, which were mainly quartered on the barracks situated next to the main gate, on the southern side of the castle. Saruch hoped to take the inner castle before the outer garrison would be able to effectively oppose. Feeling safe, the inner garrison could be catch out of guards. Sadly, they could not recruited anyone from the inner garrison, as they were handily picked by the commander itself based on their loyalty to him. They were also better paid, better feed, having a better treatment overall.
The attackers start climbing the hill and, once arrived at the walls, they throws ropes with hooks for the final climbing. The first twenty men arrived on the top and spread through the wall, heading to the towers, two other dozens followed shortly. But then, someone from the keep give the alarm. One of the guards realized what happens and blown the horn, waking everyone. Soldiers poured from their barracks, half armed and disoriented. The enemies start raining arrows over them. They were all armed with short, powerful Tatar cavalry bows which were as effectives as the great long bows the infantry used, even if not better. The attackers stormed inside the main castle, trying to force the keep itself. Somewhere, down in its dungeons, was kept their target. While Joinvile organized the fight outside, trying to keep an open retreating path, Saruch Egher took several of his best men and stormed into the keep, making his way thought the cells with his curved sword. The fight was intense and rivers of blood were spilled over the floor and stairs, but the element of surprise was still on their favour. With few men, he descended downstairs into the cells. Quickly, he found the one he searched for. With a hammer, he broke the looks and entered in the cell. He found Edouard in so bad shape that he could barely walk or speak. He order his men to drag him out. They need to get out as quick as possible, as the situation was becoming very hot.
The royal soldiers have regrouped, they have took their armours and shields and now they started to effectively fight back. From the neighbouring townlet comes some reinforcements. The chance made that a column of some 50 men strong was traveling north to Aumale. They were coming from Paris and should have being already there, but they were slowed down by the snow and therefore they decided to stop in Gisors until after the Christmas. They were the men of the Count of Aumale but when they heard that the royal castle was attacked, they armed themselves and rushed to rescue. They were not as drank as their counterparts in the castle, as they were intending to leave before down. Their count was waiting them and no further delay was tolerated. Mounted on their horses, they rushed through the main gate to the outer yard, giving the garrison a priceless respite.
Dragging Edouard out of the cell was not easy, two men struggled with him. However, Saruch observed something strange at him… it seemed to be a little taller than Edouard. Once arrived on the first floor, he ordered them to stop and approached him to see him better, illuminating him with the torch. It looks like him but he wasn’t him! Dam! They picked the wrong one. He shouted an order to his men to go back beneath the ground to search if there are other cells they missed. While his men were rushing back to the dungeons, he tried to interrogate the man but he could not speak that cursed language they called it French! And he could not speak his languages either. He tried to say something in Latin… but all he could get was that Edouard was not there. It was a trap! He rushed outside to inform Joinvile to get their men out as quick as possible. When he stepped on the inner court, he tried to spot him but the darkness and the chaos of the battle make him difficult to identify. Finally spotting him on the top of the wall where he was coordinating the fight, he rushed to the walls to inform him, shouting: “It’s a trap, Edouard is not here! Get the men out of the castle!” But the noise of the battle was covering his words. Finally, it seems that he heard him, as Joinvile have turned to him. “It’s a trap” said Saruch once more before being pierced by a crossbow bolt. He was just several paces away. The bold did not kill him instantaneously, but make him falling from the stairs down at the base of the wall. When Joinvile arrived next to his comrade, Saruch could only say “out, get out”. Joinvile was put in face of a very difficult choice. Should he continue to press the attack and get Edouard out? Or should he indeed get his men out? Saruch was not a coward or a man of short temperament. If he said to get out, than he knew something and he should trust his judgment. Enemies were rushing from the keep. He need more men to divert from the walls to the keep or he will loose any chances to rescue Edouard. But weakening the defence on the walls will might led to them being cut off from outside and trapped in the castle. Bernard de Joinvile have decided. They will save Edouard another time! The enemies were pressing, it was not the time to rescue the dead. He makes the sign of Cross over his fallen comrade and ordered the retreat. He even not knew if he was Christian or not, but shall God resting him in peace.
Joinvile get out with his men, running to their horses kept in the little forest outside the castle. Several of his men drowned in the freezing moat as the ice have broken under their feet. They have lost in total nearly 40 men, all for nothing! They did not saved Edouard…
Elizabeth received the news with sorrow. She have priced Saruch Egher very much. He was her most loyal follower and the best warrior in the world. Now, his body laid in the hands of the enemy. And her husband too! Well, they will try again. Maybe next time she will bring the entire army with her. Other business took her interests. Since the beginning of the winter, Thierry of Flanders was actively campaigning in the region. To everybody surprise, he do not waited for the spring but hit hard right towards Namur, capturing it on 9 December, only to lose it two weeks later when he turned his attention away. Now, he was besieging it once again and this time he brought more men and siege weapons.
The former damages were barely repaired and therefore the city was quickly stormed, only the citadel still resisted. Sadly, not for long. His banners will fly over its walls before the middle of January. Finally, the Flemish Count was making real progress, his forces were winning. In one more month of campaign, he had pushed those savages back to the mountains. But at what costs? His armies suffered from heavy fight as well as from winter attrition. Many were sick, many deserted, and many were caught in ambush while foraging on the countryside by those cursed Tatar light horses. Everyone was tiered and everyone wanted to stop and return home. Reluctant, Thierry agree. He will deal with them in the summer! At least he stopped the rides against his lands. Until then, he and the Flemish nobles and their count were busy with something else. They needed to prepare themselves for a weeding. A royal weeding! The time of sorrow had pass, now it’s the time for joy. They left a strong garrison in Namur and returned home. After three sacks in a row… the city was a ruin.
***
The year of the Lord 1296, 15 March, Thursday, Paris
The marriage of the King was a lavish and extravagant manifestation of power and opulence of the royal couple. Celebrated on Sunday 11 March, one week later than initial planning, the wedding was attended by the greatest nobles in the realm. Most of them were displeased by the match as Flanders have become now the strongest noble in the two kingdom, with only Champagne rivalling him in power and prestige. However, no one wanted to miss it, especially because the King was organizing a great tournament on the following days. It was the first one after a long period as the former king have banned them. Also, they could express now their dissatisfaction that the succession issues created by the sudden death of so many lords in battle remain unsolved. When it could, the crown kept the revenues for herself instead granting them to their rightful heirs or to create new ones. Where it could not impose its will, the crown just let the matters at the mercy of the respective heirs who many took their weapons and start to make justice by their own. The king has promised to personally solve the issue but he did very little in that direction! Now, he should be reminded. The first two articles of the Great Charter were clear: “After the death of ancestors, heirs of full age shall have their inheritance through the ancient relief” and “Heirs who are under age and have been in wardship, when they come of age they shall have their inheritance without relief and fine.”[2]
Some of the nobles come in search of personal glory, attracted by the tournament, while others wanted to use this occasion to band together around the new star of the realm – Count Theobald VI of Champagne. Theobald had recently married himself, with no one than the princess Maria of Castile, the same match refused for the king out of political concerns. The marriage brought him a great prestige enhancement as well as bonding Castile and Champagne closer together against their common enemy – King Henry of Aragon and Navarre. The Count, who celebrated his own wedding in Provins with great pomp only two weeks before the royal one, arrived in Paris accompanied by his bride, a lovely presence who make sensation among the nobles. She was beautiful, much beautiful than Philippa of Flanders, and gentle, the couple looking very well together. The King have not attended to his marriage, justifying being busy with his own and very important matters of state. The rift between the King and Champagne was more and more evident, culminating with Champagne receiving a less prestigious place in the ceremony than his rank as Peer of France imposed. As promised, his father in law transmitted the title of the Emperorship of Constantinople to his daughter which styled herself as Philippa de Constantinople, Imperatricis Romaniae, Regina Franciae et Angliae, Ducissa Lotharingiae, Britannie et Aquitanie, Comitissa Tolosa, etc.[3], while her husband added to his many titles the one of the Emperor.
The great tournament, organized outside the city itself, started on Monday well in the afternoon with the great parade where all the participant knights and lords paraded with their retinues as a display of their personal and familial glory. They were showing their best horses, their best armours, their best weapons, some comes with caged lions or leopards as pets to impress the audience and the other knights. Each time when they saluted the crowds, they shouted their battlecries. They were more than 2.000 knights arrived there for the tournament, coming from the entire Christendom. The spring arrived early that year and the middle of March saw a beautiful weather and perfect conditions for such an enterprise. The day, started late cause of the wedding party, ended with equestrian demonstrations and display of fighting skills.
Next day, everybody come out of the city to see the great event – the melée. The knights divided in two camps, the red and the blue, charged one against others to the great amusement of everybody. Despite having blunt weapons, the entire affair was highly dangerous. The king intended to participate himself, but he was convinced otherwise. The fight was hardly contested but was won by the team led by… no one than Champagne itself. He led the “French” team who overcome the “foreign” team, once again establishing the French Chivalry as the best Chivalry. The crowds greatly applauded the winners. Therefore, the King was forced to offer the prize to his former friend transformed to rival. If once the melée was the piece of resistance of the entire tournament, being a general exercise for war, later a new fashion appeared: the jousting – a duel between two knights who charged one against another and this fashion gain popularity as the winner become clearer and could now not share anymore his victory with his comrades. Usually, those individual combats were scheduled before the melee, but this time it was decided otherwise. Therefore, the day of Thursday 15 was reserved for jousts, so the kings could rest on Wednesday, day reserved to foot combats, usually between the lower ranks and noobies. Some of the great knights participated to the foot combats as well. The combat was won this time by a Bavarian knight to the disappointment of the crowds.
On the due day, everybody gathered once again on the field to see the jousts. Charge after charge, Champagne won all the encounters to the total enthusiasm of the crowds. Approaching to the final rounds, the King contemplate with disgust how people cheered Champagne instead of him. And it was he who organized it, it was he who paid for it, it was his wedding who was celebrated, not Champagne's one! And now, both commoners and nobles compared him with William the Marshal, Sancho of Navarre or Henry of Aragon-Navarre, the greatest knights the world have ever seen, some even putting him on top of everybody.
But the last joust seemed to be very difficult for Theobald. He was tiered and the opponent, an English knight, give him a very powerful blow which nearly throw him from the saddle. But despite that, he defeat his opponent by scoring more points. Hopefully, that was the last one. He was Champion! The people cheered him and call him “Magnus” and “Magnificent”. But then, everybody turned their look at the King. He was announcing his participation! The crowds exploded in enthusiasm. What a match!
Despite all the counsel and advice, Philip was decided to participate. He wanted to put an end to Champagne path of glory! To show everybody that he was a great knight himself, greater than Champagne, especially now when he was tiered and seems to be wounded. His pages brought him his armor and his horse. Philips was highly confident. He will win immortal glory on this field! Troubadours will sing hymns of his grandeur all across Europe. He will be put on par with Marshal, as the greatest knight that ever lived. He have not get his glory on the field of battle, but on the field of honour. He will win that glory on both fields!
The two former friends lined their huge armored destriers face to face on opposing sides of the field. The crowds and noblemen waited for the signal. After few moments of high intensity, the herald blows his bugle. The two charged one upon another and the first blow goes to the King. Everybody explodes in joy. Philip filled now over the top of the world. The King of the Universe, No, the Emperor of the Universe. On the other side, Theobald was also decided to give him a lesson. Too much he was wronged and offended by him. But his arm hurt him terrible. It seems that it was a limb or tendon which give him pains.
The two charged again. A fraction of second Philip was unfocused and the lance of Champagne hit his helmet, braking at the impact but not before throw him from the saddle. The silence covered the field. The royal squires and guards approaches in a hurry to the king who was still laying on the ground. To everybody's horror, he was dead. It seems that the helmet was not very well fixed, perhaps out of hurry to participate to the competition… It seems to have suffered a cerebral commotion and died instantaneously when he was hit[4].
Everybody was horrified. The Queen start to scream and become mad of pain. She was married for four day and she was now already widow! What tragedy! Was she cursed? The Queen mother, Christina of Norway, was also present and horrified seeing her son brought lifeless on a stretcher. God, she was mad at him for having her banned from the court and for having his younger brother delegitimized and sent to monastery. But she never wanted him to die! What will happens now to the Kingdom? Poor Louis, he is now the king. She lost a child but she have another one. He need her help as the enemies will jump over the realm and will rip it apart. Maybe Louis of Arles will contest his right and claim the Kingdom for himself. Thanks God he was not there in Paris! It could have taken over the throw with a sign. And it was so close to participate to the wedding as he was initially intended to be the Godfather of the couple.
The corps of Philip was not yet cold that everybody start making games and alliances. Quickly they divided in several camps. Some considered that the throne shall go to King’s younger brother Louis. The rest were outraged by this, as Louis was delegitimized, not the son of the previous King, and he was a monk now. But they do not agree who shall be instead. Some considered that King Louis of Arles shall become King as being the next in line to the throne, the legitimate line. Others pointed at Edouard. He was prisoner now in Gisors and considered a bastard, but a bastard of the King not of the Queen. They did not wanted Arles to lead them. Others suggested that they shall return to the old custom of electing Kings. Some of the Englishmen even thought that it might be the time to call back their true king from across the sea. Might be the time for a Plantagenet restoration… But few think this way, as most of the nobles have lands on both sides of the Channel and no one wanted to lose them.
It seems that finally the king will be decided by the force of weapons…
Queen Christina, moved in force. Securing the support of Flanders and several others nobles, she sent after her son in Vaux de Cernay. In the meantime, she tried to convince everyone to avoid the civil war, for the good of the realm. They should recognize Louis as their rightful King as he was in fact the son of Charles. Philip was badly advised and he made a great mistake. Christina hopped to secure the support of the Great Companies and to securing the support of the Great Companies she knew that she need to secure the support of Constable Jean le Maigre. With Flanders, she promised him to keep the alliance by marring Louis to Philippa. The Pope will grant dispense on the grounds of non-consummation. She send the request with the fastest horses and the best riders. In the meantime, she need to take care of an unfinished business. She ordered the death of the bastard. Not her bastard, her husband bastard.
On the dread of the night, two riders left Paris carrying the order with the seal of the King on it. They will execute the order before anyone will hear about Philip death. If Edouard is taken from equation, it will remains only Arles. But she knew him… if the odds turned against him, he will back down.
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Source of the photo:
http://www.castlesontheweb.com/photoarchive/index.php?action=one&photoid=272&sessionid=
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[1] While his full name remain Charles Alexandre Temujin, the Mongol name was not used out of impracticability and political concerns.
[2] The first two articles of the OTL Magna Charta which was accepted ITTL in a modified version by the Capetians Kings of (France and) England
[3] “Empress of the Romans, Queen of France and England, Duchess of Bas-Lorraine, Brittany and Aquitaine, Countess of Toulouse, etc.” (I hope is correct) - The official name of the Latin Empire of Constantinople was “Imperium Romaniae”
[4] Initially I intended to have him suffering the fate of Henry II of France… but I decided that I shall be merciful…
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Thanks!
I am sorry I couldn't get up to the end of this quest... I've run out of time.
In vacation I will not write but I will probably enters from the phone...
Well, as I read it, not even the Queen Mother knew of Phillip's trick about the real location of Edouard, and not even his own guardians know of his identity (that sounds like the man in the Iron Mask).
Well spotted!
Only 5 men know were he is: the commander of the Royal guard, the commander of Chateau Gaillard and another 3 guardians. So... it's not like iron mask... but close to it.
Now, it all deppends were their loyalties laid...
If we are to follow what you read, they all answer to Montigny who was entrusted by Phillip to set the whole thing up. Logically, they would be loyal to him only, and I don't think he was particularly fond of the Queen Mother given his own attachment to the King.
The safer bet is Arles as they are well established, rich, powerful and without any doubt of legitimacy, and I mind that against it, Christina's chances at playing the Pope card look very grim if not inexistant.
Next is Edouard. Even though he may be considered a bastard, he can at least argue of a regular marriage between his father and his mother, and the annullment is purely a technical and legal artifice that is very weak, back even during King Charles' war.
Next, the Plantagenet restoration. Very unlikely, but still more likely than Louis' claim. It has been more than three generations than England and France have been united, and to take example on what happened in Flanders during the HYW, the argument of trade network is an important factor, and we can expect a strong resistance from merchant classes and also from a nobility who, if I'm not wrong, has for the most part holding on both sides of the Channel. I wouldn't be surprised if they side with Arles since he has pretty important influence over trade routes into the Mediterranean, which are surely a market English traders envy and could want to expand their share in.
And as I just said, Louis' claim is the least strong. He was publically denounced by his brother the King, which add to the rumors of Christina's infidelities that have been lasting for years, even during King Charles' reign, and which took a turn for the worst thanks to the agents of Edouard, and which Arles will not hesitate to use (and he has a Pope at his disposal).
Now, there is perhaps a wild card, another Capetian that could help Christina, but I'm not sure since I've a lot of updates to catch up or read again. If I remember my distant memory, Sicily has been conquered by Charles of Tonnerre. I don't know yet where he is positioned, but Tonnerian Sicily (which still includes Naples I guess) could influence the Pope. Of course, given the previous history of Papacy acting as puppet to Arles or recently Edouard, that doesn't look likely to happen soon, but that's still a wild card, provided events, another royal succession perhaps, to change the policy.
As for Andalusia, it's too far to matter, but Aragon is another thing, but I don't think they are willing at this point to challenge the transaction that gave Aragon in exchange for the renunciation to the Arlesian throne of that relative of King Louis of Arles I don't remember yet neither the relation nor the name (yes, I have many updates to catch up).
The safer bet is Arles as they are well established, rich, powerful and without any doubt of legitimacy, and I mind that against it, Christina's chances at playing the Pope card look very grim if not inexistant.
Next is Edouard. Even though he may be considered a bastard, he can at least argue of a regular marriage between his father and his mother, and the annullment is purely a technical and legal artifice that is very weak, back even during King Charles' war.
Next, the Plantagenet restoration. Very unlikely, but still more likely than Louis' claim. It has been more than three generations than England and France have been united, and to take example on what happened in Flanders during the HYW, the argument of trade network is an important factor, and we can expect a strong resistance from merchant classes and also from a nobility who, if I'm not wrong, has for the most part holding on both sides of the Channel. I wouldn't be surprised if they side with Arles since he has pretty important influence over trade routes into the Mediterranean, which are surely a market English traders envy and could want to expand their share in.
And as I just said, Louis' claim is the least strong. He was publically denounced by his brother the King, which add to the rumors of Christina's infidelities that have been lasting for years, even during King Charles' reign, and which took a turn for the worst thanks to the agents of Edouard, and which Arles will not hesitate to use (and he has a Pope at his disposal).
Now, there is perhaps a wild card, another Capetian that could help Christina, but I'm not sure since I've a lot of updates to catch up or read again. If I remember my distant memory, Sicily has been conquered by Charles of Tonnerre. I don't know yet where he is positioned, but Tonnerian Sicily (which still includes Naples I guess) could influence the Pope. Of course, given the previous history of Papacy acting as puppet to Arles or recently Edouard, that doesn't look likely to happen soon, but that's still a wild card, provided events, another royal succession perhaps, to change the policy.
As for Andalusia, it's too far to matter, but Aragon is another thing, but I don't think they are willing at this point to challenge the transaction that gave Aragon in exchange for the renunciation to the Arlesian throne of that relative of King Louis of Arles I don't remember yet neither the relation nor the name (yes, I have many updates to catch up).
Woah, even if Arles becomes King there could be a succession war!
What's the views of the various royal councils?
There could be a WoR writ large occuring. Possibly with 3 factions - one claiming only England, one only France, and one both.
What's the views of the various royal councils?
There could be a WoR writ large occuring. Possibly with 3 factions - one claiming only England, one only France, and one both.
Most of the nobility has lands and investments in both France and England. And they surely know that if they attempt to claim independence they will lose all from the other country. So at this stage most of the nobility are for the union to continue, whether by Louis, Arles or Edward.
Indeed. However... do not forget the lesson Edouard learned on the hard way: people can act differently than expected... Montigny is a good soldier, a great fighter and very loyal to the crown. But... he do not like the political schemes... He is not good at this. How would he play his role?...
Correct. However Arles has few... constraints. Firstly, hi is too cautious and sometime hesitant in engaging himself in something big, really big. He is not a gambler. Second, he had no son, only a sickly daughter which the doctors said that she is barren... She had big chances to not get the throne of Arles itself, and it will be out of question to gain France or England... Third, the Pope is not Urban and he was not his father either... He still have influence over the papacy but not much more than other big neighboring kingdoms.
If Arles would have being in Paris when the tragedy happens, he would have taken the crown with a finger movement. Next day he will be king over three kingdoms! But... he was not...
Correct again. But it will not be easy. He first need to get out of the prison....
The Plantagenet restoration is... just a nuisance, nothing more. They have 0 chances of getting back the throne, at least as long there will be someone from the house Capet (post Louis VIII) with at least shades of legitimacy.
We all agree, Louis's claim is supported only by her mother (and which allies she could get) and Flanders who still want to see his daughter on the throne.
Dam @galileo-034, you amaze me how well you know this timeline and how good are your analyzes. You are priceless ! Chapeau!
Every body will claim all the brunch! However, not all have claims to all the brunch... Arles for example have no claims over Bas-Lorainne.
The Royal Council want two things: keeping the integrity of the realm and avoiding the civil war.... now, the views of their members over the legitimate candidate are... divided and confused.
Exactly! Only few, very few wanted the split... They are just a nuisance. However, most of them want more liberties and privileges. The "English" nobility (most of them are French, Normans of highly mixted) started loving being ruled from far away and having huge autonomy, something they did never enjoyed in England. And it is especially true in the North. After Waldensian Crusade, the North become a patchwork of powerful baronies who did not answer to anyone. They colonized people on the ravaged lands from Southern England and Continent (France, Hollands, Lothringia, Frisia, etc) over which they have quite absolute control. They all held big castles and strong armies.
That's why I pointed at his 'attachment' to the King's persona.
But he has a more undertaking brother if I remember the last updates, that one who was willing to let Edouard pass I think or sympathetic at least.
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