The Kriegsmarine implements a first strike doctrine

takerma

Banned
Just finished reading very nice

Few things, the first time use of torps against moving ships that are firing back and have some CAP, with pilots that been trained to do it in matter of few month.. the number of hits sounds wildly optimistic no? I guess not a huge deal but still.

To get Gibraltar, Malta.. and joint control of Suez. Germany would need to show capability of invading UK mainland I think

Some interesting side effects for the next year. Stalin now knows invasion is coming. Will USSR launch a pre-emptive strike in spring or pull the armoured corpse back for a counter attack later.

Japanese have synthetic fuel process, radar.. UK is knocked out of the war, will US actually issue that Ultimatum that triggered Pearl? Hmmm
 
The British will require that before they agree to such an outlandish peace treaty, and Germany cannot accomplish it. Your Wiki link doesn't explain if the Italians mentioned those terms, or Halifax. And who gets control of the Suez Canal?
The only source Can be Halifax, so its either halifax relaying the Message or his own opinion. The Suez is shared. So administrative only in peace time, either side Can block it.
Supremacy in the med was a fixed Price for peace. This is the most face-saving way to give it.
 
The only real problem I have with the treaty is Gibraltar. Everything else seems reasonable. I think Hitler would have to be dictating terms from Buckingham to give up Gibraltar. The link does include Gibraltar, but it seems...odd. The British have held Gibraltar for 400 years, through worse trials. Regardless, good chapter, and continue.

Incidentally, did France receive any other limitations? Artillery, tank, naval limitations?

I predict that Britain and France will attack Germany and Italy again as soon as they have their POWs back. Any peace with the Axis Powers most like only be temporary.

The UK may well have a go at Germany when the Russia campaign starts (And it will, short of Hitler dying) but not France, they're a broken nation. Limited army, and they've lost the Briey-Longweiy industrial area, and they have heavy reparations.

I think the idea is to permanently cripple Britain and France.
The reason why Gibraltar, Malta and unilateral control of Suez has to go is to permanently cripple British power projection. To assure peace on Axis terms. Dakar and Gibraltar also ensures a costly affair if the British try anyway.
In a strategic sense it is logically, and may even be the Best guarantee for British peace. It Will be very hard to have a second go at it.
 
Just finished reading very nice

Few things, the first time use of torps against moving ships that are firing back and have some CAP, with pilots that been trained to do it in matter of few month.. the number of hits sounds wildly optimistic no? I guess not a huge deal but still.

To get Gibraltar, Malta.. and joint control of Suez. Germany would need to show capability of invading UK mainland I think

Some interesting side effects for the next year. Stalin now knows invasion is coming. Will USSR launch a pre-emptive strike in spring or pull the armoured corpse back for a counter attack later.

Japanese have synthetic fuel process, radar.. UK is knocked out of the war, will US actually issue that Ultimatum that triggered Pearl? Hmmm

Number of torpedo hits was not wildly high. It was three groups with several squadrons each and the caps were knocked out. Besides, the many misses Recorded later is fir fast BB’s and smaller units. They move at a much smaller speed disadvantage than the slow old BB’s. Besides, guiding evasion with hydrophonics was a german speciality.

The Germans did show them the wording Marinefahrpramen... And all the mock-ups.

Soviet Union, Stalin Will surely be scared shitless. Its possible.
There are some political implications as well in the Balcans. The Soviets have yet to invade bessarabia and Bukovina. Maybe they wont overstep their boundaries ITTL.

Japan probably Will not occupy Indochina as France is a German friend by now. I Imagine a follow-on defensive alliance.
 
Is there not a typo in the amount of reparations? 22.89 billion gold marks at 2 million per year would take 11,000+ years to pay off.

Additionally, how is the UK going to procure and ship 25 million tons of oil to Germany and Italy - not to mention how will Germany and Italy come up with enough foreign exchange to pay for the oil even at pre-war prices? That’s about 175 million 1939 US Dollars of oil / 175 million barrels.

EDIT: References for oil price and barrels per ton
http://www.onlineconversion.com/forum/forum_1058197476.htm

http://chartsbin.com/view/oau
Typo indeed. Billion Per year.
Here is the USD/Reichsmark conversion rate. Prewar rate at 2,5. Its taken from the reparations which are in gold marks. Thus interchangeable for forex.
Now how much does Germany save for not needing to produce 20 million tons of synthetic fuel?
The number is roughly the British middle east production. So they are procuring and transporting it already.
Now they’ll just have to buy more other places.
 

Ian_W

Banned
The reason why Gibraltar, Malta and unilateral control of Suez has to go is to permanently cripple British power projection. To assure peace on Axis terms. Dakar and Gibraltar also ensures a costly affair if the British try anyway.
In a strategic sense it is logically, and may even be the Best guarantee for British peace. It Will be very hard to have a second go at it.

This sums up your thread.

There is this outcome I want.

I will ensure as much lead paint is drunk as is necessary to get to that outcome.

This might be dishonest and it might be incredible ... but "The reason why Gibraltar, Malta and unilateral control of Suez has to go is to permanently cripple British power projection. To assure peace on Axis terms. ".

It's all about the triumph of the will, yeah ?
 
This sums up your thread.

There is this outcome I want.

I will ensure as much lead paint is drunk as is necessary to get to that outcome.

This might be dishonest and it might be incredible ... but "The reason why Gibraltar, Malta and unilateral control of Suez has to go is to permanently cripple British power projection. To assure peace on Axis terms. ".

It's all about the triumph of the will, yeah ?
No, its about the axis having the upper hand and not wanting to let go of it.
Try to put yourself in Hitler or Musollinis place ITTL. Why would they settle for less?
Now, try to get into Halifax’ head ITTL. Would he continue the war of TTL over this?
It doesn’t matter what we know today.
 

Geon

Donor
Gudestein

You've done a good job here. But I have a big problem with the peace deal.

It is highly likely that by this deal you have effectively set in motion plans for World War 2.20.

As I said on another thread I don't think Lord Halifax would politically survive long on this kind of deal. Unless the British want to become part of a greater Nazi hegemony in Europe and I don't think they do, I could see another conservative coming to power in the British government within a few months or years of this deal.

The British public and many in the government very plainly and simply will not like this deal. And just as the Versailles treaty set in motion events for World War II this will set in motion plans for World War 2.20. Accepting territorial losses and having the UK essentially subsidize the German war effort will not go over well, at all.

There will be a lot of pressure from the governments in exile to not accept the present status quo. Yes, Germany agrees to a "home rule" provision for the conquered nations but the new governments are sure to be either Nazi sympathizers or outright Nazi in everything but name.

There will be free French fighters who will make the lives of the German occupiers a living hell with or without support from UK. And you can be sure there will be several private and government concerns who would be more then willing to lend them support both financial and otherwise.

There will also be several members in the British government straddling both sides of the political fence who will be saying - "You gave up what?!" They will want what they conceive as theirs back again. And to reiterate the idea of subsidizing the German war machine is not going to please anybody. Remember how unhappy the Germans were with the reparations clause of the Versailles Treaty.

Once Barbarossa starts I believe all bets will be off. The UK will be supporting either clandestinely or overtly the Russians and building up its forces trying to persuade the U.S. to join the war. How the U.S. might react to this I have suspicions, but for the most part I don't see this "peace" more then a year or two.
 
Gudestein

You've done a good job here. But I have a big problem with the peace deal.

It is highly likely that by this deal you have effectively set in motion plans for World War 2.20.

As I said on another thread I don't think Lord Halifax would politically survive long on this kind of deal. Unless the British want to become part of a greater Nazi hegemony in Europe and I don't think they do, I could see another conservative coming to power in the British government within a few months or years of this deal.

The British public and many in the government very plainly and simply will not like this deal. And just as the Versailles treaty set in motion events for World War II this will set in motion plans for World War 2.20. Accepting territorial losses and having the UK essentially subsidize the German war effort will not go over well, at all.

There will be a lot of pressure from the governments in exile to not accept the present status quo. Yes, Germany agrees to a "home rule" provision for the conquered nations but the new governments are sure to be either Nazi sympathizers or outright Nazi in everything but name.

There will be free French fighters who will make the lives of the German occupiers a living hell with or without support from UK. And you can be sure there will be several private and government concerns who would be more then willing to lend them support both financial and otherwise.

There will also be several members in the British government straddling both sides of the political fence who will be saying - "You gave up what?!" They will want what they conceive as theirs back again. And to reiterate the idea of subsidizing the German war machine is not going to please anybody. Remember how unhappy the Germans were with the reparations clause of the Versailles Treaty.

Once Barbarossa starts I believe all bets will be off. The UK will be supporting either clandestinely or overtly the Russians and building up its forces trying to persuade the U.S. to join the war. How the U.S. might react to this I have suspicions, but for the most part I don't see this "peace" more then a year or two.
Thanks for this reply. Believe it or not I dont want this TL to go Sea lion. I have tried to put myself in the axis leaders heads: How Can we capitalize on this advantage to ensure the British dont return for round two.
I Think they would want something like this -I dont Think the British (Halifax+?chanberlain) would have resisted
 
Thanks for this reply. Believe it or not I dont want this TL to go Sea lion. I have tried to put myself in the axis leaders heads: How Can we capitalize on this advantage to ensure the British dont return for round two.
I Think they would want something like this -I dont Think the British (Halifax+?chanberlain) would have resisted
PS. Yes, Nobody likes this outcome.
 
Gudestein

You've done a good job here. But I have a big problem with the peace deal.

It is highly likely that by this deal you have effectively set in motion plans for World War 2.20.

As I said on another thread I don't think Lord Halifax would politically survive long on this kind of deal. Unless the British want to become part of a greater Nazi hegemony in Europe and I don't think they do, I could see another conservative coming to power in the British government within a few months or years of this deal.

The British public and many in the government very plainly and simply will not like this deal. And just as the Versailles treaty set in motion events for World War II this will set in motion plans for World War 2.20. Accepting territorial losses and having the UK essentially subsidize the German war effort will not go over well, at all.

There will be a lot of pressure from the governments in exile to not accept the present status quo. Yes, Germany agrees to a "home rule" provision for the conquered nations but the new governments are sure to be either Nazi sympathizers or outright Nazi in everything but name.

There will be free French fighters who will make the lives of the German occupiers a living hell with or without support from UK. And you can be sure there will be several private and government concerns who would be more then willing to lend them support both financial and otherwise.

There will also be several members in the British government straddling both sides of the political fence who will be saying - "You gave up what?!" They will want what they conceive as theirs back again. And to reiterate the idea of subsidizing the German war machine is not going to please anybody. Remember how unhappy the Germans were with the reparations clause of the Versailles Treaty.

Once Barbarossa starts I believe all bets will be off. The UK will be supporting either clandestinely or overtly the Russians and building up its forces trying to persuade the U.S. to join the war. How the U.S. might react to this I have suspicions, but for the most part I don't see this "peace" more then a year or two.

I have re-read the comments and there are valid points to be made for an agreement going to both sides as compared to what this ended up with. And to no agreement reached as well.

I think its very likely that historians in TTL will be debating for generation on whether Halifax saved Britain or doomed Europe. And its very possible he wont survive the ensuing political fightts or the next election which I suspect will be held not long after this.

What I Wonder is what will be done to prepare for round 2. Its not a small thing, it will be everything the nation is capable off. It will be obvious and the Empire will go broke trying.

I have also considered if Bitain could get Gibraltar back after good behavior. How does that sound?
 
I have also considered if Bitain could get Gibraltar back after good behavior. How does that sound?

How about demilitarized for a set period of time, assuming no hostilities?

What I Wonder is what will be done to prepare for round 2. Its not a small thing, it will be everything the nation is capable off. It will be obvious and the Empire will go broke trying.

For the UK? Stockpiling oil, probably encouraging mechanization of farming, getting the fleet up to snuff, and since Germany just gave them a very sharp lesson on how capable aircraft can be, training their own strike forces. Certainly all of the King Georges, and Illustrious will be finished. Probably either the Lions, or a class of Vanguards get built too, it depends on how fast they want them. Queens or Rs could be decommissioned and their guns shifted once the Vanguard in question is finished, and the spare guns used up. Also, all bases will see a considerable upgrade to the AA infrastructure.

The USSR....probably no more than OTL. Despite Hitler's constant threats, Stalin seemed to have some degree of trust for him. That said, once hostilities kick off, I could see the UK covertly training USSR pilots, and providing certain things. Heck, if their intelligence tips them off, they might sell Stalin some old warships.
 
How about demilitarized for a set period of time, assuming no hostilities?

For the UK? Stockpiling oil, probably encouraging mechanization of farming, getting the fleet up to snuff, and since Germany just gave them a very sharp lesson on how capable aircraft can be, training their own strike forces. Certainly all of the King Georges, and Illustrious will be finished. Probably either the Lions, or a class of Vanguards get built too, it depends on how fast they want them. Queens or Rs could be decommissioned and their guns shifted once the Vanguard in question is finished, and the spare guns used up. Also, all bases will see a considerable upgrade to the AA infrastructure.

The USSR....probably no more than OTL. Despite Hitler's constant threats, Stalin seemed to have some degree of trust for him. That said, once hostilities kick off, I could see the UK covertly training USSR pilots, and providing certain things. Heck, if their intelligence tips them off, they might sell Stalin some old warships.

A demilitarized Gibraltar is just a small rock. Wonder if that makes any sense.

I sort of agree with all the rest above. They would modernize the fleet, complete what is Building and replace the obsolete ships. Its just not enough for round 2. Its feeble compared to what is needed. However, indeed, they will rebuild a decent military and a fleet stronger than Germany+Italy.

About Gibraltar, I am not convinced it would be kept from axis control, but I am accepting the consensus belief and writing it in as a 5 year German occupation. It fits Hitler's ambitions in the east anyways and therefore it could potentially be conceded.
 
A demilitarized Gibraltar is just a small rock. Wonder if that makes any sense.

I sort of agree with all the rest above. They would modernize the fleet, complete what is Building and replace the obsolete ships. Its just not enough for round 2. Its feeble compared to what is needed. However, indeed, they will rebuild a decent military and a fleet stronger than Germany+Italy.

About Gibraltar, I am not convinced it would be kept from axis control, but I am accepting the consensus belief and writing it in as a 5 year German occupation. It fits Hitler's ambitions in the east anyways and therefore it could potentially be conceded.
What about Spain in the Axis, German basing rights there, and a UK no embargo requirement for retaining Gibraltar? If the Germans can base submarines/torpedo boats/aircraft within easy range, is the UK even likely to argue about giving it up?
 
What about Spain in the Axis, German basing rights there, and a UK no embargo requirement for retaining Gibraltar? If the Germans can base submarines/torpedo boats/aircraft within easy range, is the UK even likely to argue about giving it up?
I would imagine defensive treaties signed between Germany and the defeated countries on the continent and I could also imagine Spain beeing part of it. Spain is an economic liability, but in such a case, Gibraltar is a mixed Blessing. This is part of the reasons why I dont personally see the Germans not controlling Gibraltar ITTL. Certainly, there can be no Embargo on anyone after this Peace deal, so nothing is keeping Spain away from the axis.

On the other hand, as Britain is not getting back into it before the POWs are released and Hitler gets 5 years with perfect Axis control of the Med, he doesn't need anything else.
I have been accused of beeing very stubborn, but in this case I decided I wouldn't be.
 

Geon

Donor
I have re-read the comments and there are valid points to be made for an agreement going to both sides as compared to what this ended up with. And to no agreement reached as well.

I think its very likely that historians in TTL will be debating for generation on whether Halifax saved Britain or doomed Europe. And its very possible he wont survive the ensuing political fights or the next election which I suspect will be held not long after this.

What I Wonder is what will be done to prepare for round 2. Its not a small thing, it will be everything the nation is capable off. It will be obvious and the Empire will go broke trying.

I have also considered if Britain could get Gibraltar back after good behavior. How does that sound?

First, as you say, Halifax role in the peace treaty and what it meant will be debated for years to come by historians. Be that as it may you are also looking at Halifax probably being tossed out on his ear the first chance his opponents can get. As I said above, no one in Great Britain is going to be happy with this situation.

There are going to be a lot of problem areas building up to a restarting of hostilities.

  • France - I sincerely doubt the French are simply going to sit still for this so called treaty. I could easily see the French secretly re-arming in secret the same way Germany did. Also I could easily see "freedom fighters" sponsored by private and governmental concerns (both British and French) making things absolutely miserable for German troops in the now occupied areas of France.
  • Newly "freed" nations - You can be sure - as I indicated above that the nations occupied by Germany during the war will be allowed "home rule" but read that as home rule under such "democratic" individuals as Vikdun Quisling. Hitler would want governments in these nations that would support Nazism or some form of it for his purposes. He would not tolerate any pre-war government existing in any of these nations he occupied. The governments-in-exile would be seeking means to undermine the governments that have replaced them. For the UK there would be a diplomatic problem. Do they kick the governments-in-exile out and recognize the new governments or do they refuse to recognize the new governments and demand that the old governments be reinstated. I would hope Halifax would at least choose to continue to recognize what the UK considered the "legitimate" governments and demand they be re-seated even if Hitler refused.
  • Malta - The population of Malta are British subjects. They will not take nicely to being under the tender mercies of Italian fascism. You are likely to seen an exodus of British citizens from Malta - who will also likely be very ticked off at Lord Halifax for giving away their home. You are also likely to see the beginning of a guerilla resistance on the island - funded by private and public concerns in Britain.
  • Palestine - Speaking of resistance fighters the occupiers of Palestine are looking at a major headache. Many of those who are in Palestine now fled Europe to escape Nazi persecution there. Look for a Jewish resistance to begin possibly funded by the British or even private American groups.
  • Russia - Russia will not have the benefit of Lend-Lease or any second front for at least two or more years. Stalin may still be able to pull this out of the fire. But a lot will depend on how Hitler runs this version of Barbarossa. At the very least once the second phase of the war begins Germany will still be deep in Russian territory. And it is likely at if Hitler is pushed back - no longer a certainty here - Stalin will demand an even bigger piece of the European pie in the post-war settlements. (not just half but all of Berlin, Austria, and maybe all of Germany).
  • Gibraltar - Here is a simple fact - Hitler never gave away anything. He would demand more concessions from the UK that I suspect by this time - Halifax being kicked out already - would be refused. It is likely Gibraltar is the first battleground for the second phase of the war with an airborne/amphibious assault to retake the island.
Finally, on a grim note, the holocaust will probably go ahead and be worse on those persecuted peoples then it was in OTL-I am thinking more like unto what happened in Calbear's TL. The newly "elected" governments in the formerly occupied nations will be "encouraged" to aid in making Europe safe for the Aryan race by deporting their "undesirables". Germany would be happy to receive them as their is plenty of room for them in Eastern Poland...:mad:
 
I would imagine defensive treaties signed between Germany and the defeated countries on the continent and I could also imagine Spain being part of it. Spain is an economic liability, but in such a case, Gibraltar is a mixed Blessing. This is part of the reasons why I dont personally see the Germans not controlling Gibraltar ITTL. Certainly, there can be no Embargo on anyone after this Peace deal, so nothing is keeping Spain away from the axis.

On the other hand, as Britain is not getting back into it before the POWs are released and Hitler gets 5 years with perfect Axis control of the Med, he doesn't need anything else.
I have been accused of being very stubborn, but in this case I decided I wouldn't be.
Oh, I understand, I'm just thinking that Germany doesn't even have to demand Gibraltar to make it useless to the UK, and German naval and air bases in Spain make a UK 'round two' far harder, as now they have no way to prevent the U-boats from being deployed anywhere in the N Atlantic from bases in spain, and German long range aircraft are going to be able to sever the UK from the S Atlantic. The same works for keeping the French in line, as well, as now they have no boarders that the Germans cannot build up on, and no coasts that are out of range of German long range aircraft stationed in an allied Spain. Spain also represents an investment potential for German businesses.
 
This sums up your thread.

There is this outcome I want.

I will ensure as much lead paint is drunk as is necessary to get to that outcome.

This might be dishonest and it might be incredible ... but "The reason why Gibraltar, Malta and unilateral control of Suez has to go is to permanently cripple British power projection. To assure peace on Axis terms. ".

It's all about the triumph of the will, yeah ?

I see this post have accumulated two likes, Grand Admiral Thrawn and Hipper's who's input I generally value very very high.

I also received a PM from Ian_W,
subject: How do you aboid you threads going to ASB?
Content: Really, I'd like to know.

My personal response was "by not using Aliens or Magic", but I think I'd like to take this one in the open. I think there is way to much trollying on these forums as it is.

I'd like to quote from the first post of this TL:


Disclaimer: This is intended as a mini-TL to follow-up on “The Raid on Scapa Flow…. or something else? AHC” discussion. The topics was a post Munich decision to prepare for a first strike against Britain. Several things have been discussed, some dismissed, and some highlighted as highly uncertain.

One of the main uncertainties relates to home fleet behavior which was rather unpredictable around the opening days of the war and first strike on the bases would be rather inefficient if the fleet was at sea. Thus, for all the preparations written about in this TL there is a 50% chance that at least the anti-shipping strikes would have had no effect. Astrodragon thinks this outcome would make a hilarious TL and maybe he will write it after he completes his sea lion TL (sorry, couldn’t resist. Explanations offered on request).

It is not intended as a long TL or one were a major emphasis is placed on the prose, but simply to put a WI change of expectations into AH context. I do tend to lean towards effective solutions for the Axis, but I highly welcome suggestions of more ineffective outcomes. If you consider this part of a work in progress, you may appreciate that one of the outcomes will be how many twists or lucky decisions is needed to make the desired end result (yes, it is one of those) following the POD itself which is not intended as the major discussion point. The desired end result should be a RN/Britain which is badly battered in the beginning of WW2.

I also concede I should have used this entry on my last TL.

Here it comes:

Its pretty clear that Ian_W did not want to read or consider this, or maybe that he just shouldn't have read further. There is a difference from Grand Admiral Thrawn who is at least as sceptical, but so far still plays the ball, to this which is basically just trollying.
Ironically, I have also been accused of deliberately collecting comments to score high in the "comments high-score", but these comments are really not welcome. That should at least take care of that misunderstanding.

I have only reported a post once from Oldironside which was beyond regular extremes, but if you go through my last TL other people have caught up with the regular trollying posters and a good proportion have been banned by now. You post was maybe not the worst, though it was clearly off target, but the PM is just not for this purpose.
 
Continuation?:

From the Peace deal its pretty clear OTL conditions have changed a lot. I would recommend "wiking's" three fish as a possibility.
I do think Wiking removed Hitler early to make it easier to apply logic, but it is certainly valid. I do not intend to construct a TL beyond this (sorry), but there is a few discussion points I'd like to take away and they are fully for dismisal, critique or use by other is so desired.

In my optics, Britain is out for at least 3-5 years. Realistically, unless an intolerable excuse is offered, planning for continuation means the demolition of the empire for no prospect of a return. There is no purpose to just sit on an Island and be at war. It would require considerable axis provocation. Britains main priority would be self-defence for the next year and buillding a very clear naval superiority. Fighters and ships.

France is gone as an independent power. It is in an economic block with Germany that has no reservation against punitive measures. For the next few years, France is however going to prosper economically as they have access to open markets and are selling military equipment to Germany. Same for Benelux, Norway and Denmark, although the grip is tighter and the German bases are not particular welcome. However, by not directly occupying this countries, there is few Places to effectively channel resistance at. The bases are strong enough that they can overwhelm local defenses, local defenses are weak enough that this doesnt need to be too much.

Balkans is tricky. Mussolini is going for Greece and no-one is helping them ITTL. Its a replay of the Winter war, but with the Allied bound by contract not to interfere, its a losing game. Surrender/defeated party negotiations probably happens as Luftwaffe interferes in favor of the Italians.
Yugoslavia? I imagine that something like the OTL alliances becomes cemented rather quickly after the Soviet Union takes it entitled piece of Romania. They would not enter Northern Bukovina and Hertza ITTL. Stalin is much more scared than OTL.

Would there be a military coup in Yugoslavia after Yugoslavia joins the axis course in autumn of 1940? It would indeed be utterly suicidal and the Yugoslav war in such a case would happen in 1940.

We certainly will have a Barbarossa in 1941, but with the following suggested butterflies:
1: Most importantly. No need for urgency... What was need to believe and what was arrogance IOTL planning for Barbarossa? Quite tricky. I Refer to Galveston Bays "Görings Reich" for a suggestion that at least Göring, without the OTL timepressure, would plan for a 2 year campaign.
2: No diversion before the attack. Attack goes ahead directly after the mud.
The diversions hurt AGS the South the most IOTL and ITTL they would have much more panzer forces available
3: Luftwaffe is much stronger. No BoB, no Crete, no, african campaign, no loss of the airborne assault doctrines.
4: Somewhat fewer occupying forces in western europe. This would enable larger reserves and replacement of losses than OTL.
5: No interruption of research as happened during 1940, much less demand for synthetic fossil fuels and generally a continent mobilzed for German armaments.
IOTL, they did get all the French gear, but the french industry more or less collapsed with Little access to necessary coal and transportation as well as looting of french factories. Doesnt hapen hear to nearly the same extent. I think the net result would be more vehichle support for the German army in 1941 and a considerably improved replacement capacity. Likely, the french would not supply many ground troops, but french equipment nor used by the Germans could help equip Allied armies.
6: Free access to global trade and at leas a few billion gold marchs to shop for
7: Support for SU? The German spends 1940-41 constructing bases in Norway and would declare the Waters to the North for an unrestricted war zone. As the British cannot guard the convoys without reentering the war which does not happen with Gibraltar, Dakar and the POW's in German hands, this route is off.
8: this leaves Vladivostok and the Persian route, however preconditions have changed dramatically. We must assume dramatic Italian armament in Palestine and Iraq and Iran are de facto economically supporting the axis by the Peace agreement. Its hard to see British invasion in Iraq or Iran in 1940-41 ITTL. It would have to be a unilateral Soviet decision where the Persian would be supported with shipments through the Suez cannal. A very dangerous gamble by the Soviets.
9: What does Japan do? The OTL invasion of Indo-China is not going to sit well with either the US/British or the Germans as ITTL Germany dont need the distraction of the British. ITTL, the only good Japan can do for Germany is striking the SU and Germany.
Further, with a Peace agreement reached between the Netherlands and Germany, the netherlands would be selling to Japan.

A big question therefore is if the army simply focuses on China via land, or if Japan takes a longer term perspective ITTL and strikes at the SU. I would guess focuses on China which would unbelievably be even harsher than OTL, while having contingency plans for SU. If Things goes well in Barbarossa, Japan would strike and sewer the Vladivostok lifeline.

From my analysis this most likely ends somehow as a German Victory over the SU with horrible consequences. The requirement for SU Victory is that they basically defeat the stronger axis by themselves.
What speaks for this is the potential that Stalin this time sees it coming.Would that help? I think it would place more SU troops within range of early encirclements, but that has been a debate on many other threads.
 
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