The Jaguar's Roar - An Aztec Timeline
- Thread starter Vinization
- Start date
It's been about 16 years since the initial contact if I'm not mistaken. The cannons were probably bought from Spain or the Aztecs basically rented Spanish artillery and crew (not uncommon, this is for example the key to the Ottoman Turks conquering Constantinople was the cannon constructed by Orban, a Hungarian artillery expert). if the Aztecs managed to build a cannon in basically 16 years of contact I'm beyond impressed
Other than that it seems that the Purépecha started to try to imitate Spanish metallurgy, while inferior at the moment and probably for the next century (this type of metallurgy, armour, was something that Europe was very good at, being much better than in the Islamic world. It is something very advanced). It's a way in the right direction, if they can make metal armor (even if it's bad) it'll be better than anything else in the region. Making the nation's soldiers basically tanks, in addition we have the adoption of horses in the armed force in Mesoamerica (well although it seems the Aztecs are not very good at this, it makes sense they are new to the subject).
Maybe another civilization can use them better, probably a steppe people. Probably the Aztecs will have to ask the Spaniards for help to break the siege. This will make the Spaniards and Aztecs even closer (besides economically, maybe we will have a military alliance between the two) . With the Spanish lending part of the Conquistadors as a shock force, perhaps they can help the Aztec armies stop trying to capture the enemy in the middle of battle (a bad idea and something that at OTL helped a lot in the battles of the Spanish against the Aztecs). In addition, we have the use of pack animals in mesoamerica, something wonderful that allows for longer campaigns and better contact between cities (there is the problem of bringing diseases and parasites, but I think that as a whole it is very positive).
So I think it's very likely an alliance between the Spaniards and the Aztecs.
Other than that it seems that the Purépecha started to try to imitate Spanish metallurgy, while inferior at the moment and probably for the next century (this type of metallurgy, armour, was something that Europe was very good at, being much better than in the Islamic world. It is something very advanced). It's a way in the right direction, if they can make metal armor (even if it's bad) it'll be better than anything else in the region. Making the nation's soldiers basically tanks, in addition we have the adoption of horses in the armed force in Mesoamerica (well although it seems the Aztecs are not very good at this, it makes sense they are new to the subject).
Maybe another civilization can use them better, probably a steppe people. Probably the Aztecs will have to ask the Spaniards for help to break the siege. This will make the Spaniards and Aztecs even closer (besides economically, maybe we will have a military alliance between the two) . With the Spanish lending part of the Conquistadors as a shock force, perhaps they can help the Aztec armies stop trying to capture the enemy in the middle of battle (a bad idea and something that at OTL helped a lot in the battles of the Spanish against the Aztecs). In addition, we have the use of pack animals in mesoamerica, something wonderful that allows for longer campaigns and better contact between cities (there is the problem of bringing diseases and parasites, but I think that as a whole it is very positive).
So I think it's very likely an alliance between the Spaniards and the Aztecs.
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Well, there are few civilizations as crazy as the Aztecs. I'm rooting for Purépecha.
oh god oh fuck its happening again
I just want Tenochtitlan to live, damnit, the city is to beautiful to get leveled like otl.
Great chapter as usual, Vin! I shall wait with bated breath for the next.
Yeah, I'm hoping the Plains Indians do that in this timeline. In our world the whole mounted nomad thing came a bit too late for North America since it happened the same time as the introduction of guns, and guns were the reason the age of the steppe nomads ended in Central Asia. You can't build cannons and breechloaders on the steppes, after all. Jezails (homemade guns) like in Afghanistan might be doable but would probably need to wait for more familiarity with guns and gunpowder. It's too bad about the steppe nomad thing dying before being fully born in the Americas, though, since we could have had crazy stuff like the Navajo forcing tribute from the early US in an echo of stuff like the Uyghur khaganate shaking down the Tang Dynasty.
It will be ironic for the Aztec Empire to be saved by the Spaniards. The Conquistadores protectores of Tenochtitlan. I'm honestly thinking that next chapters we're going to have the Spanish entering the war to protect their trading partner.
I'm advertising for a Comanche khaganate in the American steppes. While the Comanches are going to cause destruction by being the Comanches it would be very interesting. It also has the positive factor of spreading technology to the rest of North America (some things at least, but has the negative factor of spreading disease). Or we have several khaganates. This also holds back Spanish expansion into eastern North America (with them already having control of the entrance to the Mississippi).
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I gotta say, some of you guys are fast - I got my first notifications literally seconds after I posted the chapter! I'm glad you're all enjoying the direction the story's going.
The cannons are all imported, and the overwhelming majority of the crews are made up of Spaniards.
Nothing lasts forever...
Indeed.
thanks for clearing my doubts.I'm pretty sure the Spaniards will go to war to protect the Aztecs (the Aztecs surviving because of the Spaniards is a great irony).
One thing I think will be of interest it will be how the Incas will deal with the global economy (or how global was possible at the time) because they had a planned "economy" (the only one in the world that worked), they could perhaps do the same as the African tribes and barter (in the case of African tribes, slaves and resources such as ivory in exchange for tobacco, cachaça, gunpowder, metallic objects and things like that). The Incas had to exchange agricultural resources (corn, potatoes, quinoa, pumpkins and pepper and they raised animals such as llamas and alpacas), cotton, wool, silver, copper, bronze and gold (but not metal, they didn't work with metal for some reason). So they are in a better trading position than the African tribes and kingdoms.
Speaking of something that has nothing to do with the Incas or native empires, I was reading about Portugal and found that in 1550, 10% of the population of Lisbon was black (slaves).That's crazy, portugal already had a strong slave trade before sugar production in the new world.
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I wouldn't help a Pagan king against a Christian(Most probably more amenable to become a puppet.)!I shall support Tanaxaguan
~Charles I /V probably.
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I'm not sure the Purépscha sacrifice to him...
When the Conquest proves much harder than expected...
Holy shit!
I thought they'd get pushed back, I didn't expect them to get rolled this fucking hard, but the Purépecha can be super badass when actually addressing a problem directly rather than ignoring it & then inviting into their home and within backstabbing range. I hope they maintain their independence and don't end up subordinated to Spain or converting.
Anyway yeah this was awesome, you did a really good job showing the size, organization and preparedness of the Purépecha and just how overconfident the Mexica had gotten and just how quickly the situation could turn on them because of those factors. The battles felt very realistic and suitably brutal and the fallout is sure to be nation shaking, kudos!
I thought they'd get pushed back, I didn't expect them to get rolled this fucking hard, but the Purépecha can be super badass when actually addressing a problem directly rather than ignoring it & then inviting into their home and within backstabbing range. I hope they maintain their independence and don't end up subordinated to Spain or converting.
Anyway yeah this was awesome, you did a really good job showing the size, organization and preparedness of the Purépecha and just how overconfident the Mexica had gotten and just how quickly the situation could turn on them because of those factors. The battles felt very realistic and suitably brutal and the fallout is sure to be nation shaking, kudos!
Just to note, the Purépecha already shaped metal well before the Spanish arrived.
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Like the Enemy of Both Sides and the god of Change Through Conflict cares for that
That was only after the Spanish invaded, tortured and killed and enslaved tons of people and stuck a puppet on the throne so he converted to try and gain some degree of legitimacy and agency. In this timeline, I doubt the leader is gonna throw open the doors for a Spanish army which has no reason to be there anyway, and thus the Spanish aren't gonna get to just take over like OTL. So yeah, I doubt there will be a conversion.
Just caught up with this, in the end the Aztecs merely postponed their demise - they'd made far too many enemies already even before the Spanish reached the New World - but at least the continent's cradles of civilization (looks like the Incas dodged a bullet, too) won't fall under colonial rule. I wonder what other places in the Americas will preserve their independence, if there'll be more of them.
Also, Medici-ruled Italy from the 1700s? That's... one hell of a butterfly, since Spanish rule left quite a mark on the peninsula in our own world, not necessarily for the best. However, the decline in Mediterranean trade will still hit Italy hard, that can't be butterflied away; maybe the 1600s won't be as dark a century for this ATL Italy than for its real life counterpart, but the peninsula will still have some catching up to do.
Also, Medici-ruled Italy from the 1700s? That's... one hell of a butterfly, since Spanish rule left quite a mark on the peninsula in our own world, not necessarily for the best. However, the decline in Mediterranean trade will still hit Italy hard, that can't be butterflied away; maybe the 1600s won't be as dark a century for this ATL Italy than for its real life counterpart, but the peninsula will still have some catching up to do.
Yes, the Aztecs will need help from the Spaniards to survive. Perhaps this is the initial entry of Christianity into the region?
Yes, but in a primitive way. As shown in the story some soldiers are using bronze (or copper) armor and shields.
Example of Tarascon weapons, a mixture of wood and copper
They were starting to leave copper and move towards bronze but it is something recent (like a little before the arrival of the Spanish).
Bronze Axe ( give them another 100 years and probably without the arrival of Europeans we would have the first bronze swords of this people)
Of all Tarascon metallurgy, almost nothing was used in weaponry, with the vast majority being used in tools such as needles, tweezers, axes, punches, fishhooks, and wire. In addition, it has personal uses as bells, beads, pendants, and pins (to increase prestige). Copper was also used for ceremonial purposes such as discs, animal effigies, figurines, and tubes. They still used obsidian for everyday tools and weapons. They even somehow imported Pachuca obsidian which was under the control of the Aztecs.
Copper is a very soft metal and is impractical to use as a weapon or tool without mixing in tin or arsenic to strengthen it. While the Tarascans did do this, they didn't really use it for weapons or tools. Most of the recovered copper objects are of an alloy with gold or silver to strengthen those metals yet retain their luster and beauty. They were basically starting to enter the bronze age (starting to develop some bronze tools).
bell of the purepacha
In my opinion, the biggest factor for the Tarascons to beat the Aztecs is how the two fight. The Tarascons, unlike the Aztecs, fought to kill. Their sacrifices came from towns they conquered rather than people they captured while fighting. There are other factors such as organization and how the tarascas dealt with supply.
This will depend on the Spaniards, if they come to the defense of the Aztecs we have a situation with the Aztecs being a vassal or tributary kingdom of spain. With the Spaniards using them to battle the other kingdoms
Well a comache kaganate will last until the time weapons modernize enough to deal with hordes. Other than that maybe the Mapuche (that would be my safest bet). While I don't see them holding the pampas region they can hold a good part of otl chile. With the Mapuche and Incas fighting in the Andes
Depends on what Italy becomes, we can have several kingdoms in Italy with the peninsula never being unified. But having an Italian kingdom on the peninsula.
Yes naples and rome in particular are in better condition. But at the same time, Naples and the Italian kingdoms will have to deal with the Ottomans. Perhaps we will have the kingdom of Naples becoming a major maritime power in the Mediterranean (they don't have much room to expand north so a maritime focus makes sense).
and having to deal with the Ottomans at the height of their power (16th century).
Worth reminding that France is also now the main influencer of the peninsula with it's control of Milan and non official control of Savoy and Genoa, Venice and Tuscany are still around and will definitely help Naples in fighting against the Ottoman threat and the lack of mutiple devasting wars will see the Peninsula still very rich even if stagnant and being left behind by the other powers