The Forge of Weyland

The Whale Has...Tracks? :)
Perhaps I should have said "The Whale Has Wheels"?
Very versatile creatures Whales :D

If you've been watching Astrodragon at all you should be expecting the rest of the series:
"The Whale has Sings" (Can't wait for the detailed musical number choreography scenes in that one)
"The Whale has Rings" (A detailed AH on the British Phone System)
"The Whale has a Rash" (British Health Care System)
"The Whale and the Walrus" (Alternate Beetles with the part of Churchill played by Orson Wells)

And the eagerly anticipated "The Whale has a Drinking Problem, but we don't talk about it in Polite Company"

And what makes you think I won't work a whale in somewhere...

We, of course require this to be a "thing" now you realize :)

Randy
 
The first British A.P.C, wheeled or tracked is named after a whale.
Mechanized Infantry are then forever known as Jonahs, because they ride in the belly of the whale,
 
This idea is more intuitive than studied on my part: that with increasing mechanization/motorization on American farms from the late 1800's on, that first, American farmers needed less human and animal workers to accomplish more work; second - those remaining farmers became more mechanically adept - out of necessity; and thirdly, fewer draft animals were retained and fewer skilled draft animal handlers were available. That became a steadily increasing trend in the early 1900's through today.*

Was the same general idea true in Britain of the 1900 through 1930's? I'm assuming so, but along different paths.

*edit* I live in an area with a couple of good sized pockets of Amish farms, so I do see a fair number of draft horses still in work and there still are some skilled handlers around. That has also encouraged some non-Amish farmers (with big mechanized farms) to get their hand back into the draft horse game, more as a hobby than a key to productivity.
The rule of thumb for twentieth century British farming is:-
1912- it took a team of horses the entire month of January to plough 50 acres.
1932- with a Fordson tractor it took three weeks to plough 50 acres
1952 - with a Massey Ferguson tractor, two weeks to plough 50 acres
1972 - with a David Brown or Ford tractor, one week to plough 50 acres
1992- with a John Deere, one day to plough 50 acres
2012 - one afternoon to plough 50 acres.
You can plot farm size increases, falling farm and agricultural employment numbers from that.
 
The rule of thumb for twentieth century British farming is:-
1912- it took a team of horses the entire month of January to plough 50 acres.
1932- with a Fordson tractor it took three weeks to plough 50 acres
1952 - with a Massey Ferguson tractor, two weeks to plough 50 acres
1972 - with a David Brown or Ford tractor, one week to plough 50 acres
1992- with a John Deere, one day to plough 50 acres
2012 - one afternoon to plough 50 acres.
You can plot farm size increases, falling farm and agricultural employment numbers from that.
You forgot:
"2020- What's an acre?" :)

Randy
 

Glyndwr01

Banned
If Britain was so short of artillery tubes in the 1930/40's why did they not try rocket's? Britain has used them in the past with mixed success.
 
If Britain was so short of artillery tubes in the 1930/40's why did they not try rocket's? Britain has used them in the past with mixed success.
Rockets are usually less accurate, often wildly so, than gun based artillery. The Royal Artillery had always prided itself on it's accurate fire.

As for horses in the British Army? In 1939 they weren't quite done. It was rumoured that the last battery of horses put into harness for the Royal Artillery were such that they would only get started if they heard some milk bottles, "clinking". In reality, there simply were not sufficient horses, which was what prompted the British Army to become fully motorised - the only army to start WWII with those vehicles and the only army to finish WWII with them as well. They were the epitome of motorised troops in 1939...
 
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why did they not try rocket's?
I might be right off base here but I didn't think rockets had the accuracy at the time. They're fantastic for saturation bombardments ("This map grid reference offends me, remove it!") but if you're at all worried about friendly troops in the area you'd probably think twice about using a rocket salvo.
 
The Army considered they had ample artillery in the 30's. They wanted more modern versions of the guns, but they figured they had enough to equip the divisions they had. It was always going to take time to get the TA and conscript troops up to speed, during which time they could build more guns.
Now they would have been happy with more, but it wasn't seen as critical at the time. It was only after Dunkirk there was an obvious shortage.
 
A new infantry tank?
November 1935, Cairo.

General Sir George Weir looked at the man London had flown in to help advise him on how to defend his command against a possible Italian invasion, and wasn't terribly impressed. He already knew how to handle his Infantry and Cavalry, and he doubted that Percy Hobart could impart some magical revelations about tanks that would change his mind.

"Brigadier Hobart. I don’t know what you’ve come here for, and I don’t want you anyway. The Italians are on the other side of the desert, they aren't going to get a big Army through that without massive preparations."

"With respect, Sir, while that might have been true 30 years ago, the advent of the truck and the tank mean that's an outmoded argument."

"Hmph! I should have known you'd be straight on about tanks!"

"The Italians do have quite a few of them, Sir. Granted, they are light tanks with limited capabilities, but they are armoured and carry machines guns, which are quite effective against our men and horses in the open desert. Trucks allow them to build up supply dumps far more quickly than in the past, and so they could be in a position to mount an attack much sooner than our old estimates predict."

"So they sent you here to tell me all about tanks, then?"

"Not quite, Sir. My brief is to take a look at the conditions, and our estimates of the Italian strength, and then suggest ways we can negate their own tanks while using ours to defeat any attempted invasion. I'm not here to directly advise you, we only have a few light tanks in Egypt, and their purpose is reconnaissance rather than direct combat." Hobart felt it would be best not to mention that the machine-gun armed Vickers tanks weren't much better combat machines than the Italian tankettes. However he looked forward to getting a look at the actual battlefield - the possible battlefield, he reminded himself, at the moment the Italian army was only a potential threat - and determining how his tanks could defeat them. As the Inspector of the Royal Tank Corps, he knew what the state of British armour was all too well, and this was going to be an interesting challenge. Whether his advice would be welcome to the Cavalry types that seemed to infest Cairo he didn't know, though he was pretty sure he could answer that question, but his actual report was to the War Office.

"Well then man, I suppose you'd better be about it! See my orderly when you want transport out to the desert, he will arrange everything."

***********************************

November 1935, War Office

General Sir Hugh Elles was not a happy soldier. He was convinced that the way forward for tank design was a tough, heavy tank to aid the infantry in breaking through a defence, and had written up a suitable specification. This new demand from the RTC wasn't to his liking, but still, he thought he should at least listen to their arguments, even if he thought they wouldn't convince him.

"Very well, gentlemen, please show me how my thoughts on an infantry tank were incorrect."

Major Martel, who'd been selected as the spokesman for the new designs, managed to hide a wince. This was obviously going to be an uphill struggle.

"Well Sir, to start with we don't disagree with your suggestion that we need a heavy tank to aid the infantry and help them break though a defence with fewer losses. Indeed,. Some of the new weapons coming through have shown that our old tanks simply aren't tough enough. Our suggestions differ in the way we go about it, not the need to do so."

Elles gave him a look, but nodded to the man to continue.

"Well Sir, we've done a number of exercises against well-led infantry assumed to be equipped with the new anti-tank weapons we are building for ourselves, after all we know our potential enemies are developing the same types of guns. The earlier design" - Martel was careful not to say 'your design' - had heavy armour, which is certainly needed, but only had a 2-man crew and machine gun armament. While fine as a mobile pillbox against infantry, the new guns outrange it. True, heavy enough armour will allow it to attack them, but things like the tracks are still vulnerable, and its slow speed has led the boffins to work out they'd most likely get disabled before closing the enemy as needed. The new weapons show that the design needs to be updated."

He took some sketch plans from his briefcase, and passed them over to the General.

"As you can see, Sir, we retain the heavy armour, but it's a much bigger design. This allows us to have a crew of five, which as you remember was determined to be the ideal tank crew size. It also allows it to keep in touch by radio, so the infantry can help direct it to where it's most needed. Finally, as well as a couple of machine guns, it carries a cannon to destroy enemy guns and emplacements from a distance. While it will still be vulnerable to a heavy enough gun, it will take care of the lighter pieces, and there won't be too many heavy guns available."

"Elles looked over the plans. He was somewhat perturbed - while he had felt his own design would be the ideal way of doing the job, using a much smaller and cheaper tank, Martel had raised some good points. He hasn't considered the new light anti-tank guns, because they hadn't been around long - indeed, they were only coming into British service next year.

"And how will that work for the RTC?"

"Well, Sir, it actually meshes quite well with our current doctrine. As you will remember, we've always been aiming to exploit weak points, or to outflank, then attack the enemy's rear, it's a very decisive tactic. However we've found that when the defence knows what it's doing, the new guns would make us take heavy losses. So we are thinking out mixing some of these heavy tanks into the Brigade, and if we can't find any holes, use them to make some. We've done a lot of study on this, and it seems to work. And using the same heavy tank will reduce the cost."

"Yes, this is going to be an expensive beast, isn't it? We won't get as many of them."

"That's true, Sir, but we've looked at all our results and tests very carefully, and a smaller tank just won't do the job any longer. Sir John Carden agrees with us, and he's told us that if we were to decide on the heavier design, he has some ideas which he thinks will please us."

General Elles sat back for a moment and thought. He didn't want to just abandon his own design - he was only human after all - but everything Martel had said made sense, as long as the data from the tests was correct. Of course, Martel was angling for a solution that worked for the RTC as well, but that was expected. Given that a tank designer with the prestige of Sir John agreed, he found it difficult to naysay it just because it clashed with his earlier ideas. He had great respect for Sir John, the man was a genius when it came to tank design.

"Very well, Martel. You haven't convinced me yet, but I'm prepared to listen a bit more. Take this tank, and get Sir John to come up with a design, then he can come and sell it to me. If he does, we'll go ahead and build one."

"Thank you Sir, I'm sure Sir John will be happy to do that. I'll get onto him straight away, and when he's ready we will talk again?"

"Yes, Martel, do that. But make sure you have a good design, I won't be fobbed off with a poor one!"
 
If you've been watching Astrodragon at all you should be expecting the rest of the series:
"The Whale has Sings" (Can't wait for the detailed musical number choreography scenes in that one)
"The Whale has Rings" (A detailed AH on the British Phone System)
"The Whale has a Rash" (British Health Care System)
"The Whale and the Walrus" (Alternate Beetles with the part of Churchill played by Orson Wells)

And the eagerly anticipated "The Whale has a Drinking Problem, but we don't talk about it in Polite Company"



We, of course require this to be a "thing" now you realize :)

Randy
Don't forget about the discussion about food. Vegemite, I think, was one.

Raf
 
Come on we are talking about British Tanks here! Surely the discussion would be about the intricacies of designing a 'Boiling Vessel' for cooking and tea making rather than the food itself!!
 
I assumed the title is a reference to Wayland the Smith (Volund in Norse), forger of magic swords including Dyrnwyn which was owned by Merlin and in some legends is Excalibur.

Wayland's Smithy is a burial mound in south England.

OK, 1 letter different, but Volund is spelt so many ways it's forgivable!
 
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