The support of the princes for moment is essential, so they won't be offended by Bose yet. Perhaps after Bose's government consolidates all over India, some of their powers can be restricted(made answerable to elected officials perhaps). Foreign affairs and defence has already been stripped from them in the deal with Bose.
The Fascist Republic of India: An alternate history of Independent India
- Thread starter Aj chahal
- Start date
Issue is internal coordination and extra judicial powers they will have. Plus the investment and administrative synchronization. One way or another after india under his control bose need to deal with them permanently. Maybe a purge like stalin or hitlar?
Days of Princely States are already numbered anyone.
They crumbled in otl, they will inadvertently crumble ITTL, mayhaps even sooner than Otl.
Sardaar Patel, can be a very useful in this regard.
Along with political acumen, he also had personal acquaintance and friendship with various Princes.
United Subcontinent aptly managed will be a sheer Behemoth, capable of dominating the Indo- Pacific, the Asian continent and it time the world.
I don't see any reason why Bose will try to impose Hindi on everyone, he himself is Bengali, even otl INA used lots of Urdu. Its radio station broadcast weekly news bulletins in English, Hindi, Tamil, Bengali, Marathi, Punjabi, Pashto and Urdu. Bose would be pragmatic when it comes to the language question. As for sanskrit, its not a language of masses and not spoken on a day to day basis anywhere other than a few villages here and there. Dravidian ideologues would be equally opposed to sanskrit being imposed as they are to Hindi. I can see Bose making Hindustani one of the official languages with nastaliq and devanagri as its two recognized scripts.
There is no way these Maharajas will survive for long, even in OTL India, the moment someone came who had no real fondness for democratic and republican ideals, Indira , they got destroyed. Bose is pretty much Indira Gandhi on Steroids at this point. The Rulers will live and have their autonomy for maybe 10 years at most, but they are all going to be stripped of all their power, wealth and some might even be killed.
Historians of TTL will see this decision by the Princely states as a monumentally stupid one and one that doomed everyone. It would be seen as the ceremonial end of Monarchy in the Subcontinent
Historians of TTL will see this decision by the Princely states as a monumentally stupid one and one that doomed everyone. It would be seen as the ceremonial end of Monarchy in the Subcontinent
I hope not. He was a total failure when it comes to negotiations.
Ambedkar would be a better candidate.
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If they are compliant about assimilation then there really isn't a need for a purge. At most I see something like an Indian version of House of Lords where the more powerful kings are nominated by Bose's government, in return for that there administrative powers may be taken away gradually, but the titles aren't going to go anytime soon. Also they are going to be required to ditch their British titles(such as knighthoods and orders of the Empire but not the gallantry awards.
Thanks mate. Once Bose consolidates India, he will give some tacit assistance to colonial rebels.
Dear god, "Indra Gandhi on steroids" that's fucking hilarious man🤣
Actually, the princes chose to cast their lot in with Bose, because one way or the other the British are being kicked out and the people will take stock of everyone who helped them. Better side with the victors, which is why they waited till Calcutta fell. Their confidence is also bolstered by the fact that Mountbatten is in INA custody.
Well yes, initially I did have Nehru in mind for the new republic's Foreign Minister, but perhaps even Ambedkar can be used. Maybe a Maharaja is also an option here. The Maharaja of Jamnagar helped a bunch of jews so he can be sent to the States to court the Jewish lobby.
The thing is, once the reorganization of states hir, most princely states are going to lose their kingdoms and sources of incomes. Which means they are on borrowed time
You are wrong here.
The Royal Navy by June 1944 is currently conducting Naval Bombardments and Air raids against Japanese occupied Indonesia, however the India situation will lead to a shift in priorities...
So you must of forgotten of the Eastern Fleet based in the port of Trincomalee, Ceylon (Sri Lanka). The Royal Navy as of June 1944 currently has the...
3rd Battle Squadron,
5th Cruiser Squadron,
4th Destroyer Flotilla,
7th Destroyer Flotilla,
11th Destroyer Flotilla,
4th Submarine Flotilla,
6th Submarine Flotilla.
Also this Wikipedia page has ALL the major ships in the Eastern Fleet listed.
I'm going to list out what I could find from that Wikipedia page.
The Royal Navy and French Navy by June 1944 will have the Battleships MN Richelieu (leaves for repairs by September), HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Valiant (leaves after taking severe accidental damage in August).
The Battlecruiser HMS Renown is in the Indian Ocean Fleet.
The second last Battleship to ever be built for the Royal Navy, HMS Howe will be crossing the Suez Canal in July and will arrive by August, 1944.
The 3rd Battle Squadron will always have 2 Battleships and 1 Battlecruiser at all times until 1945 at least.
As for Fleet Carriers of the Royal Navy by the end of June will be made up of HMS Illustrious and the support Carrier HMS Unicorn.
Fleet Carriers HMS Indomitable and HMS Victorious will arrive by July.
So the Royal Navy will have 3 operational Fleet Aircraft Carriers by July and 1 Support Carrier.
Escort Carriers HMS Ameer, HMS Atheling, HMS Battler, HMS Begum, and HMS Shah are operating in the Indian Ocean at this time.
The 5 Escort Carriers are usually used to escort and protect Allied Convoys and also transport Aircraft across the seas, but with India in crisis most of them will be moved over to support the British Army.As for Heavy Cruisers the Royal Navy had in June there was HMS Cumberland, HMS London, HMS Suffolk and lastly HMS Sussex. They were all part of the 5th Cruiser Squadron.
The 4 Heavy Cruisers are all part of the 5th Cruiser Squadron.Light Cruisers were noted with 9 of them available by June. Some of them are Australia, New Zealander and Dutch. It is known that...
5 of them are Modern ships.
3 of them are older ships.
1 of them is obsolete.
Now I think the Allies have somewhere around 14 or more Destroyers operating around the Indian Ocean by June, 1944. Most of them are part of the Destroyer Flotilla's in Trincomalee, the rest are being used for Convoy Defense I believe a lot of Australians ships are noted.
The Royal Navy has I think roughly 9 River-class Frigates for Anti-Submarine purposes mainly, but the ships can be used for Coastal Bombardments.
The Royal Navy Sloop fleet is mostly made up of insignificant former US Coast Guard boats, but their is 1 British Black Swan-Class ship operating in the Indian Ocean, the "Royal" Indian Navy has 6 of them however.
Lastly there is roughly around 16 British and Dutch Submarines in the Indian Ocean by June, 1944.
Everything else is mostly miscellaneous.
So to summarise, the Allies will likely have...
2 Battleships1 Battlecruiser
3 Aircraft Carriers
1 Light Carrier
5 Escort Carriers
4 Heavy Cruisers
9 Light Cruisers
14 Destroyers
9 Frigates
1 Sloop
16 Submarines
Well I expect for the blueprints of the mass produced Type C and D-class of Kaibōkan ships to be delivered along with the construction of Japanese MTB's and Coastal boats getting armed with weapons.
Japanese Daihatsu-class landing boats will be built to help transport the IJA across the rivers of India and the coast.
Now the main issue with building the Kaibōkan ships will be finding the engines that are compatible with the designs of the ship will be difficult and delay the construction of the Indian Navy, ships obviously can't be controlled if you have no engines to power them.
Getting the Naval guns will also be a issue as well but their should be plenty of leftover British Artillery pieces across the Subcontinent that can be used instead.
There should be enough Industrial power in India to turn the nation into a formidable force to be reckoned with.
Provided that it isn't destroyed by the British Bombers of Tiger Force...
Well Churchill could order for more reinforcements from the Commonwealth Nations into Sri Lanka and the Maldives.
Their is nothing stopping the Royal Navy Battleships from opening fire on rebels in the Islands and causing devastation, however this will mean that British power will only remain in the Coastal and developed areas of Ceylon.
If the Japanese do land the 'Lanka Regiment' of the INA into Ceylon with the use of Submarines then I don't see how the British will hold onto the Island for long without resorting to extreme measures.
The threat of Axis Airplanes and Ships alongside with Submarines will or should eventually force the British to start a Dunkirk style operation to save what's left of their military in the islands.
But Churchill is going to adamantly refuse to abandon the islands and will retaliate with Strategic and tactical bombing against the islands with the planes from the Aircraft Carriers and RAF Wellington bombers. But it won't be useful in the forest and hills of Sri Lanka.
The only real hope left for Britain is for American support and help with crushing the resistance in the Islands and allowing the British to strategically Bomb the Indian Subcontinent into submission with the help of Tiger Force.
The Bombing campaign is not going to save British India, but it will kill hundeds of thousands of lives. And will only leave bitter resentment and hatred from the peoples of India.
Britain will definitely give up and abandon ship after Churchill loses the British election in July, 1945 but that's a whole year for Bose to struggle through.
The only thing left standing in the way of India in the aftermath will be the steamroller that is the United States of Ameria and the juggernaut that is the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics...
The Naval Forces cant do anything if Churchill doesn't have enough Spare Marines and Army troops.
Yeah, at best they would need the troops from the Commonwealth nations, mainly the ones from Australia and also start pulling back soldiers from the Italian campaign, if allowed by the US and start repositioning them.
They won't stand a chance in India itself but they can cause problems to Bose in the Pakistan and Iran region where terrain is favourable to British Tanks and superior British Air power.
Their is the question of Ceylon but it's possible that the British will be forced to abandon it soon with the deteriorating Strategic situation.
As for landing ships and amphibious operations the British will have sufficient numbers available to begin operations around India by late 1944 and the numbers will only climb as the year turns to 1945.
By 1945 the British Navy will double in size.
Bad idea. The guy is a total failure when it comes to foreign relations. I'd give him the position of Ministry of Education. Nehru is a scholar. He'll fit in as someone overseeing and coordinating Educational facilities and institutions.
I forgot about this. Use the guy but make sure to send an eloquent diplomat capable of framing a treaty and long time political collusion with the West. Ambedkar would be a perfect fit for the job. He has tremendous foresight. I'm still awed by the foresight he had when constructing the Indian constitution.
Well, I admit that I did miss this. But there are still a few hiccups for the British here,
-they lost 50,000 men at D-day and another 30,000 surrendered at Calcutta, so a fresh amphibious assault on India is not possible for them.
-The Americans will want them to use what remaining troops they have to be used in Italy and France.
-Churchill still might use his British Indian troops in Europe since they can't mutiny there but they won't agree to attack India, especially if Churchill is thinking of bombing civilian targets.
-For the Americans, the main objective is Germany and then Japan. They aren't going to send more troops to India and if Bose can succeed in his negotiations with them, the Americans might get the Indians and Italians to switch sides simultaneously.
-Also the Australians and Canadians aren't very motivated to help Britain preserve India. Both of them will tow the American line.
So yes, Churchill can use his planes and ships against Indian civilian targets, but they will be a waste of resources for him, which are required against Japan in the Pacific and the Germans.
Nehru can have another country, one more suited to his ideologies.
Hell, I even think it might be suitable to send Gandhi to the states. He is world-famous and could generate sympathies for India among the American public.
Actually, I wouldn't send Gandhi or Nehru anywhere outside India. They are good for attracting crowds but they don't have a bone in them that makes them competent negotiators. You need someone with acumen and a sense of canny realpolitik capable of projecting strength. Nehru, at the very least projects strength. I'm sure Gandhi is a very wise man and a knowledgable person but he'd be the last person to project the strength of a nation.
In diplomatic missions, the first rule is don't send ideologues. This is the one sacred rule that you should not breach. Send people with morale ambiguity as they are far more flexible and tend to at least pretend that they are reasonable.
Jinnah? Ganga Singh?
Especially Ganga Singh. He was at Versailles.
He knows to Handel such stuff.