TDOR really good TL for writing about how horrifying the world really is"America is still here, and with its allies from around the world, is ready to exact vengeance on those who caused this calamity." - I don't think there is anyone left to do that on...
"Our friends are hurt, some worse than us, but all the hurt that we have taken is only a fraction of what we have visited upon them." - understatement.
"As I speak, the armies of the Free World, from Europe to Latin America and even the free Russians of Siberia are rolling into European Russia to minimise civilian casualties and bring to justice whatever perpetrators of the crimes we have witnessed for the past few years have survived." - hope they have a lot of Hazmat and PPE.
"We have the opportunity to learn from the mistakes that got us here to forge a new future," - good luck.
"You were a soldier in the British army stationed in Lithuania, is that correct?” - I hope he go plently of mental health help after this duty.
"before realising “Wait, only Russia is destroyed” and then crumpled to the ground. Their country was gone. Their history, their culture, everything." - just like Vladimir.
"Soldier: “... Can we skip that question and come back to it?” - tells you everything really.
"His name was Anton Krasovsky, and he had the nickname of ‘monster’." - one bastard caught at least.
"That’s why I never understood why the American were so mad about the idea of Timothy McVeigh getting tried at the Hague." - two caught.
"If he was going to suffer, as I wanted him to, I wanted him to live as long as possible - in that sense, it was a good thing he was so young. We beat the shit out of him, obviously." - very British somehow.
"no adult in a society with access to information has ever been a Nuclear Holocaust, or Jewish Holocaust denier out of facts or logic." - very, very true.
"The only thing I can say to the people who say the rape camps didn’t exist, that it all was made up to justify the nuclear strike, I wish you were right, mate. I really wish you were right.” - yup those are memories you do not get rid of easily.
"Thirty-eight million. That was the final death toll of the Second Russian Civil War," - wow. Just unimaginable.
"a scene whose morality and taste has been hotly contested since, not in the least due to one of the soldiers tying a small Polish flag halfway up the flagpole due to his Polish ancestry." - yeah that is a little tacky/disrespectful.
"However, the climatic effects of the ‘Nuclear Autumn’ that lasted until the dawn of the new millenia" - damm that is bad.
"The Fascist troops had more holdouts and ambushes, and by the end of 1996, it was estimated that nearly 4,000 intervening troops had been killed by Fascists, as compared to about 1,200 killed by Red soldiers." - just give the feck up idiots.
"it wouldn’t be until early 1997 that it was definitely determined that it was Al-Qaeda, not Petrograd, who fired the first shot in the nuclear conflict." - I bet that upended a lot of people's world views, but I suspect it did not lead to the American anti-Muslim sentiment that 11th September did OTL due partly to the time distance, and the attack was not America as such.
"European Russia was put under UN administration with Kaliningrad now stuck with having to pay reparation to Russia’s many enraged neighbours and genocided minorities." - how are they going to pay that off then given how small that place is?
"The occupation was primarily a NATO job, and certainly NATO would be the first to go anywhere in the stricken country." - I bet some idiots would portray this occupation as the 'final' act of the Cold War with the West having won.
"The highest ranking Fascist official alive was Eduard Limonov" - and many would lament that fact, wanting more of the bastards.
"Tellingly, on April 12th Lebed would declare on radio that he had rescinded his claim to European Russia." - sensible. No one wants that mess.
"He was declaring the independence of Siberia and recognising the FEK as a sovereign state as well, a decision soon reciprocated by Vladivostok." - that is a good thing.
"Finland would consequently become uncharacteristically harsh in its demand for a settlement. The Latvians and Estonians would be equally vindictive," - Lebed made the right decision to be well away from that mess.
"The two Baltic countries now longer demanded the return of their 1993 borders, but their 1939 borders," - and they will probably get them if they want the pollution, population and cleanup.
"Turkey sent their troops by boat up to the east side of the Kerch strait, then began to march south along the Black Sea while sending troops up from Circassia." - where is Georgia in this?
"The wave of Russophobia in 1996 due to the strike was short but profound" - not as bad as it could have been.
"This would kick-start the voluntary emigration of Russian citizens to the FEK and Siberia, both of which were in great demand of people given their sheer scale." - understandable really. Chance to be a bigger fish there than in the West perhaps?
"Ukraine’s nationalist leadership had taken the view that the fall of Russia left Kyiv as the true inheritor to Constantinople and Rome," - humm... I wonder how much religion come dominate there?
"Ukraine has subsequently become the leader of the EU’s Eastern Bloc alongside Poland, primarily in opposition to France and Germany." - well they made it into the EU Club then.
"Riots swept the major cities of most major cities that evening as looters and various shades of political fundamentalists tried to take advantage of the chaos." - not a surprise.
"Clinton’s approval boost pre-emptively guaranteed a crushing re-election victory over John McCain that November." - That is not a surprise either, unless Clinton had stepped back from exhaustion he was guaranteed that win. Wonder is McCain runs again next time?
"where support for Quebec independence imploded and a new grievance was born in Albertans feeling ignored in that Halifax’s strike was receiving far more governmental assistance than Edmonton." - well that is shaping Canada's politics for decades.
"Nor was it as costly as in France or Turkey," - I wonder how politics go here? The loss of Calias and so much of Turkey is going to cause issues.
"While this damage was somewhat healed by England’s subsequent victory in the UEFA European Championship in 1996" - Go England!
"it was not enough to save Major in the subsequent election, leading to Labour’s first return to majority government since 1979." - guess Blair was destined to be PM... heh. Though with experience of government before hand in the Coalition I suspect Labour do things very differently to OTL, even given changed world conditions.
"the Atlanta Olympics continued under immense security - a failed bombing attempt by a Christian religious fundamentalist attempt intercepted before detonation." - tons of backlash going to happen there!
Did Siberia, FEK and Kaliningrad send teams @Sorairo?
"Two major questions arose from the conclusion to the Second Russian Civil War: what to do with WMDs and how to reconfigure Russia?" - indeed, weighty questions.
"with all nuclear powers in the world attending, though Israel declared due to their obscure policy that they were ‘merely observers’." - yeah BS there Israel. Just admit it at this point, its a 'known secret'.
"the World Disarmament Movement was founded in May 1996 by Elie Wiesel and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn," - uphill task in the West one thinks.
"Aksyuchits announced on April 21st that he was simply abolishing the nuclear arsenal immediately," - kinda makes sense due to the cost to maintain too.
"whose collection of warheads now stood at orders of magnitude above all other countries in the five figure zone." - getting those costs down would be important I suspect.
"China itself was eager to make everyone forget about their Siberian adventure and gladly accepted whatever the West was offering if it ensured their place in the new world order." - ah pragmatists in charge then.
"At the final agreement, it was declared among NATO, the Russian successor states, China, India and Israel that not only was nuclear warfare unacceptable, but that it would consider the creation of one by any country on Earth to be a collective declaration of war against them." - damm that's a powerful warning to many states.
"It was further agreed that America would pledge that by 2000 they would have only 1,000 warheads, with the UK, France and China being given a maximum of 100. India was given an allowance of 40, and Israel of 15." - finally Israel comes clean. That is a major reduction in warheads there. Trident won't cost the UK anywhere near as much ITTL.
"Facing immense political pressure from their populations, who were as one psychologist recalled, “Maddened by grief and loss,” the Russian speaking world would unanimously surrender their nukes." - surprised that Ukraine tried to keep them but was made to see sense.
"Another was Arkady Babchenko, a Ukrainian Jew who had served in the Red Army at gunpoint, was captured by Nashis and experienced a nuclear explosion before passing away from cancer in 2005 after writing a bestselling memoir of his time in the war." - there he is. Good he was rescued.
"Unfortunately, some 10% of the Ukrainian and Belarus missile operators that were involved in Allied Force would either commit suicide or die from health conditions brought on by the mental weight of the event." - I am surprised it is that low a number. Wonder how American service personnel faired here?
"though Belarus and Ukraine asked for and received an agreement for NATO membership as a condition, a process that would be joined by Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia as one group in 1999." - Wonder what NATO's 'mission' is by 2000 with no Russia?
"to tell them what to do was seen as an unacceptable form of neo-colonialism, particularly in the case of Pakistan." - oh no...
"The coup was led by Naseem Rana, the head of the ISI, who became the interim leader. He announced that Pakistan was withdrawing from the terms agreed to by Bhutto." - and he expected no retaliation?
"On October 28th 1996 after ignoring calls from the White House to step down or face consequences, American planes from the carrier strike force began to obliterate every nuclear facility in the country" - a strong message to Iran, Libya, et all too.
"Bhutto consequently agreed by diktat to scrap the nuclear program, while also cutting cold all aid to the Taliban and getting its military under control." - wonder what Bin Laden thinks of this?
"Lebed and Aksyuchits’s independence was recognised, as was that of the entirety of the Caucasian states, including Kalmykia" - good news.
"Turkey forsook economic reparations from Russia in return for its recognition of the establishment of a Circassian state on the Black Sea." - probably realised they would never get the cash...
"and including the entirety of the Kabardino-Balkar and Karachay-Cherkess republics, thus ending the existence of the Russian Black Sea Fleet." - I thought that stopped existing under nuclear fire?
"Estonia and Latvia got their pre-Stalinist occupation borders back," - was def going to happen.
"While again not a forced movement of people, it was very deliberately made to make life unlivable for ethnic Russians." - still got to be better than the irradiated Russian wastes?
"Finland would gain their 1941 borders again, but with a catch. This territory would be allotted to the Karelian, Mari El, Udmurt and Komi survivors of Petrograd’s genocide." - still its a home I guess?
"The Urallic states and Komi, as well as other hotspots around European Russia, were declared contaminated zones and were the subject of forced evacuations." - which makes sense, no one should live a hellhole like that.
"Turkic genocide survivors such as the Tatars would be given refuge in either Turkey or Circassia," - cannot have been many people unfortunately.
Did the Kurds cause any unrest during the Russian Civil war I wonder?
"It was agreed that European Russia itself was simply incapable of sustaining itself for the foreseeable future" - going to be many, many years before it can I bet.
"a presidential committee decided to make ‘Pushkingrad’ the name of the city," - that is a horrible name honestly.
"even in 2020, due to the horrific clean-up cost and mass movements of people, European Russia is a pale shadow of itself, with a lower population than either Siberia or the FEK." - somehow I am not surprised by this. I bet the region is a fav with UrbEx types though.
"it was agreed to restore the Romanov Dynasty to a ceremonial position as Tsars in the obliterated mess of European Russia." - wow, did not expect this.
"The battle for who would be Tsar was actually quite fierce, as there were competing claims within the Romanov family itself." - someone wants the job? Wow.
"the discovery of the ‘Hermitage Vault’ in northern Russia in June 1997 and the Imperial Crown Jewels within was hailed as a potentially literally miraculous find." - one hopes there was a ton of other heritage stuff in there considering how much has been lost.
"Symbolically, the coronation would be on the exact eightieth anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in November 1997" - irony.
"Others hoped that this ‘Novgorod Kingdom’ would forsake the warlike ways of old Musvcovy and act like the old Novgorod Republic, as a cultured European nation." - time would tell.
"It would be a monumental treaty that has defined most of the 21st Century to date, but it didn’t just end the MAD era" - the true end to the Cold War?
"When one old man in a tractor from a nearby farm drove into Belgrade and accidentally ran into a police barricade when he got lost, the crowd took it as a sign to strike," -somehow hilarious.
"agree to Western demands to hand over all war criminals connected to the Bosnian and Croat wars. This would include Milosevic himself," - good!
"Mandela had been pressured by the Clinton Administration and China to deal with Mugabe’s destabilisation." - interesting.
"On August 12th, Mandela launched the South African invasion of Zimbabwe." - Barlow was right though, this is better than Executive Outcomes doing it, if messier.
"Prominent Zimbabwe opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai would become President, charting a frayed but superior course for the young country" - better than OTL one hopes.
"Mugabe’s trial in the Hague, where he was put on trial for genocide and sentenced to life in 2003." - terrible shame.
"led to a sizeable voluntary repatriation of White South Africans who felt Mandela’s handling of the incident had assuaged many of their fears about what a future South Africa would look like." - hope SA keeps to this optimism post Mandela.
"Executive Outcomes would fully move to Siberia in 2003, and become a substantial local employer." - I'm sure they where happy for the income.
"he ‘Arab Spring’ would begin in Libya, after Gaddafi had reluctantly agreed to the abolition of his WMD program following Pakistan’s Near Death Experience in October." - I can see how folk might think the Colonel weak.
"But it wasn’t just in Libya - in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and elsewhere, economic discontent from the Depression had boiled over and the desperate living conditions led to protests sweeping the Middle East" - this will get messy.
"Then, on March 7th 1997, a nuclear bomb exploded in Almaty, Kazakhstan." - there you are Bin Laden. Interesting target choice...
Great chapter there. Some deep repercussions for the world from the Russian mess.
The Death of Russia - TL
- Thread starter Sorairo
- Start date
TDOR really good TL for writing about how horrifying the world really is
Especially as both Limonov and Yazov were only tried because they had fallen out of favor prior to April 10 and thus were not in areas that would be nuked as a result of that fateful day.
In his first appearance, Borat was from Albania, only later that Cohen changed his nationality to Kazakhstan, but it is clear he had in mind of picking a generic Eastern European country rather than Central Asia.
Also remember the Astana Zoo Massacre?
Oh fuck, another nuclear explosion. My version here ITTL will be surely an anti-nuclear weapon activist (assuming that I will be born).
I guess its the Al-Qaeda again
Those two on trial would be like if Nuremberg had tried Ernst Rohm and Erich Ludendorf as the main culprits.
Limonov was famous in France for describing his stay in New York in his 1979 autobio "Le poète russe préfère les grands nègres", which was equal parts homosexual encounters and criticism of capitalism. OTL, he was very much the left-wing counterculture part of the National Bolshevik Party with Dugin being the right-wing part. I can imagine his defense being a somewhat truthful version of "well, I opposed that" to literally every thing Petrograd did since the overthrow of Yeltsin to the point, where he could realistically be acquitted.
Yazov on the other hand is not only an old general, he is ww2-level old, as in he actually fought as an officer in the defense of Leningrad all the way down to the Courland pocket from '42 to '45. He would likely go with the "I followed orders" despite it being painfully obvious he was the guy issuing them or a mix of "My country, right or wrong" and "I did nothing wrong". Definitely he would give out an impression of the Soviet Union as being out-of-touch, inhuman and cruel.
Look like our prediction came true and now Russia is a shell former self
Reminders this was before 4/10 happened and this man unintentionally predicted Nuclear Hellfire
Bin Laden did technically cause the calamity (although tbh it seems the Nashis and and Commies would have gone nuclear within the next few months regardless)
Religion became much more socially prominent as the war escalated - I wonder what would happen after 4/10, and how society will be affected afterwards.
In the Able Archer 83 TL, the entire world became much more socially conservative, with rights to abortion and divorce abolished by elected governments. It won't happen in this TL, but there will still be an expectation that you should be devoted and religiously observant.
In the Able Archer 83 TL, the entire world became much more socially conservative, with rights to abortion and divorce abolished by elected governments. It won't happen in this TL, but there will still be an expectation that you should be devoted and religiously observant.
I say in another post that actually going to go Risen with both Christianity and atheism after 4/10 to cope and give reason of what happened on that day, atheist going to a lot more mainstream because of how Pessimistic TDoR world is
@TickTock The Witch's Dead and @AstroRangerBeans actually comment about that of how America and the TDoR world is it going to be a lot more central government and an Post-4/10 craze that's going to shut down any critics of American imperialism in TL
I am skeptical about that. Soviet Russia might have been Communist but it is difficult to see anyone of note in the Western left see it as a model, while the NSF going so deeply for paradigm-setting ultraviolence in the name of some sort of neotrad purity plausibly could have backsplash on at least some elements of the Western Right. I can see people of the Pat Buchanan ilk initially praising the people who they might think were returning Russia to its roots. Beyond that, the culmination of the Russian Civil War in genocides and nuclear war will reflect badly on radicals at both ends of the spectrum.
If there is one cultural trend that might become big in the years after 4/10, I wonder if it might be a sort of new apolitical hedonism. A deeply frightening world where things can change terribly without anyone having meaningful control is the sort that would counter against planning generally, never mind the construction of great ideological schemes. Why not just try to have fun in the ruins, metaphorical and otherwise, for as long as you have?
*Hugs*
I agree its a good TL but you should take care of yourself, why dont you make some warm milk and eat some cookies if you have them? Might make you feel better
As for AH, you could try a happier one to give yourself a good refresh through contrast, like for example in Russia's case you have Goku-san's Stalin SI or Milman's Peter Goes South who are all pretty good and Im sure there are more that people here could recommend to you
Christmas time usually officially ends on Epiphany which is usually on January 6.
But indeed that chapter about nuking shit out from Russia was so dark that there should be warning that not at least read before going to bed. Wasn't exactly one of easiest nights for me.
I'm sorry, but I don't see the issue? We've already had rape camps, genocide, mass rape, the use of chemical weapons, mass starvation, child rape, use of child soldiers, mass murder, and countless other atrocities. By now everybody should have realized that perhaps reading this story before going to bed might not be the best idea.
Is fine to be to be a little sad on Christmas because your appreciate a lot more about life than it before especially the darkest days have the most brightest smiles