The Dead Skunk
- Thread starter Lycaon pictus
- Start date
I think it was that Missouri did not allow black people to be educated at all.
I'd love to know, but my guess is that Missouri has some sort of law to prevent black people from being permitted to read or write regardless of whether they were free or not (as most slave states had OTL), and therefore also criminalising anyone attempting to educate black people. My guess here is that this was a white man giving basic education to freed black people on private property, and the (successful) defence is therefore arguing that prosecuting him for giving a lesson is a violation of his constitutional right to freedom of speech and that constitutional right trumps state laws.
See, for instance:
Black Codes (United States) - Wikipedia
And of course the consequence for this is that, if a white man teaching a free black man has a constitutional right to freedom of speech, then all free black people have a constitutional right to almost all of the things that the Slave Codes prevented them from doing. In short, the supreme court just ruled that in some key respects, free black people have the same rights as white people, and that most of the slave state laws denying them rights are now unconstitutional. Or, to put it another way, the way this ruling will go down is something like the abolition of Jim Crow, on steroids, during the Berrien presidency in the ante-bellum slave states. This is going to get very, very, very ugly.
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I'd love to know, but my guess is that Missouri has some sort of law to prevent black people from being permitted to read or write regardless of whether they were free or not (as most slave states had OTL), and therefore also criminalising anyone attempting to educate black people. My guess here is that this was a white man giving basic education to freed black people on private property, and the (successful) defence is therefore arguing that prosecuting him for giving a lesson is a violation of his constitutional right to freedom of speech and that constitutional right trumps state laws.
See, for instance:
Black Codes (United States) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
And of course the consequence for this is that, if a white man teaching a free black man has a constitutional right to freedom of speech, then all free black people have a constitutional right to almost all of the things that the Slave Codes prevented them from doing. In short, the supreme court just ruled that in some key respects, free black people have the same rights as white people, and that most of the slave state laws denying them rights are now unconstitutional. Or, to put it another way, the way this ruling will go down is something like the abolition of Jim Crow, on steroids, during the Berrien presidency in the ante-bellum slave states. This is going to get very, very, very ugly.
Ah, that explains it nicely, thank you. And yeah, this is not going to go down well in the South alright. Things are going to get very ugly, especially with Berrien having a potential nomination for the Supreme Court that he's going to try and shove through.
Lycaon pictus
Donor
This is certainly the way a lot of people will read the decision. Here's the origin of TTL's Missouri v. Rankin case:I'd love to know, but my guess is that Missouri has some sort of law to prevent black people from being permitted to read or write regardless of whether they were free or not (as most slave states had OTL), and therefore also criminalising anyone attempting to educate black people. My guess here is that this was a white man giving basic education to freed black people on private property, and the (successful) defence is therefore arguing that prosecuting him for giving a lesson is a violation of his constitutional right to freedom of speech and that constitutional right trumps state laws.
See, for instance:
Black Codes (United States) - Wikipedia
And of course the consequence for this is that, if a white man teaching a free black man has a constitutional right to freedom of speech, then all free black people have a constitutional right to almost all of the things that the Slave Codes prevented them from doing. In short, the supreme court just ruled that in some key respects, free black people have the same rights as white people, and that most of the slave state laws denying them rights are now unconstitutional. Or, to put it another way, the way this ruling will go down is something like the abolition of Jim Crow, on steroids, during the Berrien presidency in the ante-bellum slave states. This is going to get very, very, very ugly.
This. The Deep South has their guy in the White House and they still feel like they're under siege.
And there will be a December 23, 1839 interlude, but don't worry. I won't let myself get carried away like I did with the 1834 interlude. I will show some restraint this time. Some of the random stuff you've been seeing in the last few updates has been things I didn't want to put in the interlude because it would take up too much space.
(Depending on who you ask, the war is either called the Bosnia-Rumelia War or the War of the Orthodox Alliance, although the alliance is now down to one.)
Very good update. Excited to see how this contradiction of there not only being a class of free blacks, but a class with rights, hinders slavery.
Oh my, so much to try and catch up on.
For the UK the Iron Duke's funeral signals an end of era. The Tories have not only alienated so much of the public but also the very royal family they would try to claim to be protecting wit their conservative polices. Wellington lent their whole party a degree of legitimacy and I daresay 'class' that they have now lost. Still it seems the coming Troubles will not topple the monarchy so I am hopeful it will mean a stronger UK to hold France in check and continue frustrating America's manifest destiny ambitions.
What's America's reaction to their old foes death?
For The USA we haven;t I think even begun to see the fallout from the war. For one Niagara will be something of a problem child it seems. With likely many Americans viewing them as ungrateful for their liberation, and the Niagarans disappointed that republicanism in the American model isn't quite what they hoped for. While not such a big thing on its own, given the other hardships and failures of the war I think many Americans will use that as further fuel for questioning if it really was a worthwhile venture.
And now the South is drifting into its self appointed nightmare scenario. They not only failed to gain land for slavery but expanded the Free states by one. And now this supreme court ruling will be seen as the Federal government subverting their rule in their own territory. Berrien wont take this well, and even a popular president would have issue trying to subvert this and Berrien is only popular at this point among committed Quids I'd say.
Missouri being the battleground is fitting and dangerous. Save perhaps Delaware Missouri is where slavery has become we jest among the slave states. if this is seen as tipping the scales further against slavery blood is likely to follow.
And all this with an election year approaching. I still favor the DRP returning to the White House I think the bigger issue will be the continued rise of the populists freaking the laves out with the increase of public support for abolition. And the South will have no unity either. The Quids fancy themselves the party of the South and opposition, but the Populists have taken the opposition banner from them; and the Reformists I see throwing their hat into the ring fir the White House. I could see plenty of Hooper Bragg's disillusioned with the TQs and looking elsewhere with their vote.
And of course our dear little Republic on the delta after its victory celebration will have to seriously consider what to do regarding slavery and their military in the post war world.
For the UK the Iron Duke's funeral signals an end of era. The Tories have not only alienated so much of the public but also the very royal family they would try to claim to be protecting wit their conservative polices. Wellington lent their whole party a degree of legitimacy and I daresay 'class' that they have now lost. Still it seems the coming Troubles will not topple the monarchy so I am hopeful it will mean a stronger UK to hold France in check and continue frustrating America's manifest destiny ambitions.
What's America's reaction to their old foes death?
For The USA we haven;t I think even begun to see the fallout from the war. For one Niagara will be something of a problem child it seems. With likely many Americans viewing them as ungrateful for their liberation, and the Niagarans disappointed that republicanism in the American model isn't quite what they hoped for. While not such a big thing on its own, given the other hardships and failures of the war I think many Americans will use that as further fuel for questioning if it really was a worthwhile venture.
And now the South is drifting into its self appointed nightmare scenario. They not only failed to gain land for slavery but expanded the Free states by one. And now this supreme court ruling will be seen as the Federal government subverting their rule in their own territory. Berrien wont take this well, and even a popular president would have issue trying to subvert this and Berrien is only popular at this point among committed Quids I'd say.
Missouri being the battleground is fitting and dangerous. Save perhaps Delaware Missouri is where slavery has become we jest among the slave states. if this is seen as tipping the scales further against slavery blood is likely to follow.
And all this with an election year approaching. I still favor the DRP returning to the White House I think the bigger issue will be the continued rise of the populists freaking the laves out with the increase of public support for abolition. And the South will have no unity either. The Quids fancy themselves the party of the South and opposition, but the Populists have taken the opposition banner from them; and the Reformists I see throwing their hat into the ring fir the White House. I could see plenty of Hooper Bragg's disillusioned with the TQs and looking elsewhere with their vote.
And of course our dear little Republic on the delta after its victory celebration will have to seriously consider what to do regarding slavery and their military in the post war world.
"Excellent...I mean, how tragic."
"I'm sure our ambassador will want to attend his funeral. To pay tribute to a great man. And to make sure he's dead."
Another event I anticipate in the lead up to the Troubles is Delaware abolishing slavery. The general weakening of the institution ITTL and worry over the polarization tips the scales just enough for that to squeak by. To the abolitionists it will be a small but consequential victory, to the planters d their allies t will be treated like a sign of the end times. The first in a dreaded domino effect wiping them out.
The prompting the proslavery faction to resort to ever greater underhandedness and audacity in a self fulfilling belief in an existential struggle.
Kentucky is a particularly curious case fr me. Based off that one quote it sounds like the state may retain/gain an unusual level of autonomy for a time, and the Troubles seem the likely source of that.
The prompting the proslavery faction to resort to ever greater underhandedness and audacity in a self fulfilling belief in an existential struggle.
Kentucky is a particularly curious case fr me. Based off that one quote it sounds like the state may retain/gain an unusual level of autonomy for a time, and the Troubles seem the likely source of that.
Finally caught up with the thread. Unique TL I must say!
BTW, how is Alexander I alive till 1839?
Lycaon pictus
Donor
Thank you. He didn't get typhus in 1825. That said, he's in poor health physically and mentally, and (spoiler) Russia is due for a change of leadership soon.
Another question, Is Dheerandra Tagore atl Rabindranath Tagores dad?
I just have a couple of questions….
1. What’s happening in the world of Napoleon II. We only seen glimpses of his personal life, his political life, his court, and his lovers! What happened with his relationship with the Italian noblewoman who was considered unsuitable to be his wife and what’s the deal with the Italian noblewoman he did and up marrying? Is she going to be an inconsequential political/cultural influence in France or a is she going to make an impact as Empress of the French?
2. What’s going to happen with Albert and Dorothea, as niece nephew of a Prince Leopold, and cousin of a current king and a future king, what are your plans for them? Any vague or not so vague hints?
3. Where is Ada Bryon right now in this timeline? What is she doing now? Can you please give us some information on the December 23, 1839 updates?
1. What’s happening in the world of Napoleon II. We only seen glimpses of his personal life, his political life, his court, and his lovers! What happened with his relationship with the Italian noblewoman who was considered unsuitable to be his wife and what’s the deal with the Italian noblewoman he did and up marrying? Is she going to be an inconsequential political/cultural influence in France or a is she going to make an impact as Empress of the French?
2. What’s going to happen with Albert and Dorothea, as niece nephew of a Prince Leopold, and cousin of a current king and a future king, what are your plans for them? Any vague or not so vague hints?
3. Where is Ada Bryon right now in this timeline? What is she doing now? Can you please give us some information on the December 23, 1839 updates?
Mate, not everyone checks the site every day. Give the author some space, if they want to answer you they'll do it in their own time.
I think Elmarism will still be Capitalist.
Instead of Workers seizing the means of production and producing themselves, a top down/ circular distribution of wealth will be more emphasized, while still retaining private means of production, alongside a Georgist Land Tax and Land redistribution.More like Ultra Longism mixed with Georgism.Elmarism will focus more on Social and Political Equality rather than Economic one like Marxism and Land Tax and Land Redistribution will only be a part of breaking up the powerbase of upper class nobility.
Instead of Workers seizing the means of production and producing themselves, a top down/ circular distribution of wealth will be more emphasized, while still retaining private means of production, alongside a Georgist Land Tax and Land redistribution.More like Ultra Longism mixed with Georgism.Elmarism will focus more on Social and Political Equality rather than Economic one like Marxism and Land Tax and Land Redistribution will only be a part of breaking up the powerbase of upper class nobility.
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Lycaon pictus
Donor
It's coming, slowly but surely.
I do have plans for Dorothea. All I'll say right now is that Duke Ernst, the father of her and Albert Ernst (not quite our Prince Albert, being a year younger), decided ITTL not to remarry after his separation and his wife's death. IOTL he married his niece Marie of Württemberg, but I've decided this TL already has more than enough uncle-on-niece action, so… ITTL Marie moved to France and married Charles, comte de Flahaut (who IOTL moved to the UK after the Restoration and married Margaret Mercer Elphinstone).
Hint: I'll get to Ada Byron in the update about Hanover.
Yes.
That's a lot of questions. Thank you for confirming that somebody at least wants to read about Napoleon II's sex life and relationship with Ippolita (now Queen Hippolyte) along with his longtime mistress Eléonore, because I will be putting in a few paragraphs about that.
I do have plans for Dorothea. All I'll say right now is that Duke Ernst, the father of her and Albert Ernst (not quite our Prince Albert, being a year younger), decided ITTL not to remarry after his separation and his wife's death. IOTL he married his niece Marie of Württemberg, but I've decided this TL already has more than enough uncle-on-niece action, so… ITTL Marie moved to France and married Charles, comte de Flahaut (who IOTL moved to the UK after the Restoration and married Margaret Mercer Elphinstone).
Hint: I'll get to Ada Byron in the update about Hanover.
This is.. close. Elmar's overarching Theory of History is that in every state the elite will, if given the chance, hoard wealth and power for itself over time to the point of causing either societal collapse or stagnation leading to conquest. Elmarist policies, including a confiscatory estate tax and (as you guessed) a Georgist-type land tax, will be geared towards preventing that.
Will Elmarism have any manifesto that neatly sums up this ideology?