The Anglo/American - Nazi War
- Thread starter CalBear
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Tread Necromancy. Bringing soles back to life.
Seriously, April of this year doesn't constitute necromancy, as I understand it.
I would argue that it's not going to be as popular, purely because the Pacific War was more brutal and there was no atomic bombs either. Japan is third world in this timeline for a longer time and that is going to have a profound effect on popular culture. Anime might catch on but I don't think it's going to be as exported until later. Japan also had a profound effect on Western gaming as after the Atari crash they held the Western market in terms of consoles and such. Assuming other games companies rise in the place of Japanese ones, we might see a lot more Western consoles but it's hard to tell since most tech advances have been war related.
Japanese culture is utterly unrecognizable compared to OTL. Just the greatly increased number civilian fatalities ensured that. Japan was more or less one giant OTL Leningrad before the collapse. To say that the collective phyche of the Japanese people was destroyed is not an overstatement.
Significant number of Japanese survived to the surrender by doing things that were unspeakable. Many went to their graves, never having discussed what happened with anyone. Those who did were often shunned or said to be mad. Until the ATL 1990s, when the majority of those who had been old enough to remember what had taken place had begun to die in significant numbers, the most common medical condition in ATL Japan was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Imagine the culture of a country with 50 million long term psychiatric casualties.
Japan was so bad post war that many of the initial Allied commanders on scene never got over what they saw. In Chapter 58 of the T/L I mention that a couple dozen senior A4 commanders, including the U.S. CNO, the British 1st Lord of the Admiralty, the Secretary of the Army and Deputy Commandant of the Marine Corps resigned rather than oversee a second "Oxcart Directive" while significant numbers of lower rank individuals declined to follow the specific elements of the orders to starve and burn the Reich to surrender.
As far as the gaming industry I frankly never thought about it. All the elements, fast computers, a 'Net, affluence are there, so undoubtedly someone will figure it out.
How much of Japanese post-war culture is a response to the horrors of the war? We could possibly amplify those elements several times over. Imagine a ITTL *Grave Of The Fireflies...good god.
I imagine that the Japanese Culture would probably be rather nihilistic in this TL and probably even more pacifist. I'm also curious about Japan's opinions and feelings towards the Reich after they were occupied by the USA and in the years following. Would they be feeling betrayed? Used? Also what was the German response to Japan bowing out, I'm personally imagining something to the effect of "Well they weren't Aryan so what did anyone expect?"
CthulhuFhtagn
Banned
It was posted here a while ago as a pdf. Just go on google and type this into the search bar:
anglo-american nazi war site:alternatehistory.com
Then download the pdf file. It covers the whole war, and the postwar era up until around 1990.
I read the TL earlier last summer, but this is the first I've seen the post-war sections.
The postwar world is very... authoritarian, in that dictatorship is the norm in international relations. The A4 seems to be the world's nanny, and very harsh with its punishments. On the other hand, you have your Indian Government which is somewhat of a balancing act on the other end (if only because it wasn't made A5).
In fact, the political ramifications in India would be tremendous and downright amazing to look at.
The postwar world is very... authoritarian, in that dictatorship is the norm in international relations. The A4 seems to be the world's nanny, and very harsh with its punishments. On the other hand, you have your Indian Government which is somewhat of a balancing act on the other end (if only because it wasn't made A5).
In fact, the political ramifications in India would be tremendous and downright amazing to look at.
Actually the A4 countries are very much democracies. The U.S. may be a more vibrant democracy in ATL 2000 than IOTL in that it has four major political parties, and some actual differences among them. The Parliamentary countries are very much the same sort of set-up as IOTL, except for some additional areas that send MPs. India is a vibrant democracy, albeit one with some regional issues, and is positioned to be the richest country on the Planet (if the seabed mining effort works and the asteroid exploitation scheme doesn't, India is going to be seriously bucks up).
Most of the world consists of one flavor of democracy or another, some are much more gamed than some others, but democracy is the dominant form of governance. About the only large patches without any real democracy are China and the rump USSR. China is a military dictatorship (think Burma IOTL before the increase in openness, but even more rigid) and probably the worst place to live, freedom-wise, in the world and the USSR is still trying to make Leninism work.
Admittedly the democracies are always under the mainly benevolent oversight of the A4, but if a you don't start a war, commit internal genocide, or try to have an independent space program its all pretty much aces (unless you are one of the statelets that used to be the Reich, in that case you can do all the democracy you want short of trying to reform a larger German Federation, do that and, well... don't do that). The real danger in the ATL is what happens if the money starts to seriously dry up in the A4, especially in the U.S. It would be a really, really good thing if the asteroid mining thing worked out.
Oh I agree that internally the A4 is democratic, but externally, they're authoritarian
CthulhuFhtagn
Banned
I think the governments of the A4 fully believe in the idea of "making the world safe for democracy". And in their eyes, to keep democracy safe, sometimes you have to drop a moon rock on a city or two.
What about the corporate-wise? Are trans-national corporations as dominant as they are today, both globally and politically, or is it the state which has co-opted them instead? Did the great privatizations in the UK during the Thatcher years IOTL happen ITTL? Does the US ITTL have the same healthcare and student debt issues OTL has?
Constantinople
Banned
From what I understand about this timeline: no to all of that.
The US still has extremely high taxes even in the 1980s, and probably still comparatively high taxes in the present time. The government is much bigger, and the sacrifice of the war was much, much, MUCH higher, so like Britain OTL, the people almost certainly expected a pay back (ala the NHS) after the war. You know, for their 20 years of war.
I don't know which is worse......this, or Decisive Darkness?
Basically, compare a craptopia with anthrax galore everywhere, with limited nuke use, and MUCH more casualties, with an utterly depressing we-aren't-surrendering Japan AFTER the two nukes, and gigantic use of the Big 3 of WMD's.
But one conclusion that I can make, is that both of them are true masterpieces. And I commend you for that CalBear. *slowly claps*
Basically, compare a craptopia with anthrax galore everywhere, with limited nuke use, and MUCH more casualties, with an utterly depressing we-aren't-surrendering Japan AFTER the two nukes, and gigantic use of the Big 3 of WMD's.
But one conclusion that I can make, is that both of them are true masterpieces. And I commend you for that CalBear. *slowly claps*
Sabot Cat
Banned
*claps as well, before whole audience is giving a standing ovation
But seriously, I agree that this is one of the most wonderfully crafted timelines I've ever come across.
DPRK
As I read page 72 of this great work ... the DPRK is not as solidly closed as most stories make it out to be. Since it is very poor, there is a lot of corruption, and money always talks. For instance, a few years ago it was possible for an upper-middle-class citizen of the USA to purchase a completely unauthorized tour of areas inside North Korea.
I have no clue whats the risk level of getting caught. After you are caught, sure, obviously you are a spy.
As I read page 72 of this great work ... the DPRK is not as solidly closed as most stories make it out to be. Since it is very poor, there is a lot of corruption, and money always talks. For instance, a few years ago it was possible for an upper-middle-class citizen of the USA to purchase a completely unauthorized tour of areas inside North Korea.
I have no clue whats the risk level of getting caught. After you are caught, sure, obviously you are a spy.
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