The Anglo/American - Nazi War
- Thread starter CalBear
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I really prefer to not go into the post war at this point.
I'd like to add in my fav theory of what the Anglo Americans will do with Europe... and that is...
ignore it... very deliberately...
TTL's Europe becomes OTL's East Africa... a lawless, savage burned out wasteland led by thuggish governments ruling over a resentful, sullen, and much smaller populace than OTL with only the few surviving peripheral NE members like Italy/Finland/Romania/Bulgaria and possibly Spain/Portugal/Sweden giving any care... because from what I'm seeing Himmler is going to manage to break things so thoroughly no amount of economic aid glue is going to fix the core of Europe and the Anglo Americans have better things to do than send hundreds of thousands of troops on permanent occupation duty...
ignore it... very deliberately...
TTL's Europe becomes OTL's East Africa... a lawless, savage burned out wasteland led by thuggish governments ruling over a resentful, sullen, and much smaller populace than OTL with only the few surviving peripheral NE members like Italy/Finland/Romania/Bulgaria and possibly Spain/Portugal/Sweden giving any care... because from what I'm seeing Himmler is going to manage to break things so thoroughly no amount of economic aid glue is going to fix the core of Europe and the Anglo Americans have better things to do than send hundreds of thousands of troops on permanent occupation duty...
While we're on the subject, did Reinhard Heydrich get assasinated ITTL ? if he's still around, he'd probably be in a very senior position by now. I'd see him playing a key roll in the replacement of the Heer by the Waffen SS.
Cheers,
Nigel.
Winston Smith
Banned
Speaking of the post war world, I believe that in order to prevent a massive depression, the Anglosphere will have to rebuild Europe to some degree in order to provide a market for their products. How is the consumer market doing at this point anyway for the UN states? And how are the German civillians coping with what is going on? How many Germans are their anyway? What are the demographics of Eastern Europe?
I think your right about the post-war, but remember the allies just exploded billions of dollars over Germany. They're not going to spend billions more. They probably will rebuild whatever isn't totally destroyed, like the Breitspurbahn and some buildings and cities in the Balkans. They will go as cheap as possible and will probably be motivated by a deep desire to get home as soon as possible.
Japan's Civilian ITTL population dropped by 14% from 1940-1947. IOTL the drop was less than 3%. Much of this loss was in the older elements of the population and in the younger, with a disproportionate impact on younger females (12 year old boys can be of use in the Army, girls not so much). This is, of course, a disaster that has follow on effects.
IOTL Japan's population had actually fully recovered and was better than 13% HIGHER in 1955 than in 1940 (83M vs 73M in 1940). ITTL Japan is still not back to 1940 levels in 1960.
Japan was utterly shattered as a modern society. Besides the starvation and destruction of the entire transport network (down to the point that ox carts were a rarity even before the oxen were all eaten), by the end of the war the Allies were conducting large scale air raids on towns with pre-war populations in the 50,000 range because there were simply no larger targets left to burn.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, ITTL 1958 Japan is STILL not quite capable of surviving without U.S. military food aid.
The Japanese would have been grateful if they had only been bombed into the Stone Age.
Oh God, don't tell me there is going to be a massive Lendesenbraum program under Himmler..........is there?
Congratulations, Tiger! I got my first googlewhack (single-item search result) from "Lendesenbraum" - your post.
Do you mean Lebensborn? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn
Disagree there... After the war the big markets for Anglo American goods will be S. America, SE Asia, India (Good Lord will it be India
) and to a large extent themselves as I'd expect consumers in the US and UK would be thirsty for consumer goods that have been rationed and restricted for over 30 years due to either the Great Depression or this incredibly long war... Europe won't have enough people with enough money to really matter except for possibly the peripheries like Spain/Portugal and etc. Heck Africa might finally not get the short end of the stick TTL due to more gradual decolonization. While I don't see them becoming 1st world (save possibly S. Africa) many nations could become 2nd world...Constantinople
Banned
I doubt that Europe will be as depopulated as people say it will be. Just somewhat depopulated.
glad to be of help.
Such questionable Lebensborn origins aren't necessary a barrier to getting on in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anni-Frid_Lyngstad
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Disagree there... After the war the big markets for Anglo American goods will be S. America, SE Asia, India (Good Lord will it be India
The amazing thing is that almost nothing of Europe will be left to rebuild. The Nazis are STILL going strong, even with the allies knocking on the door. Himmler will probably destroy Sweden, Finland, and the Balkans and Italy just before defeat in a massive super-weapon attack (darn your secrecy Calbear
) that will bring them to the deathbed with the Reich. There won't be anything in France or Germany worth super-weaponing at that time.Disagree there... After the war the big markets for Anglo American goods will be S. America, SE Asia, India (Good Lord will it be India
The Commonwealth of India if you please sahib!
HoC
As would I sahib Smith, as would I. Hell, I think Indira Gandhi could have been the first woman British PM and been even tougher than Maggie was. I know commonwealth nations do not produce British PMs, but it is fun to think of what the OTL could have been with India as a full partner in the British Empire. Hell, with their population it might be a foregone conclusion that every member of #10 Downing Street would be named Gandhi or Singh.
(Watch, now someone will post just to say that we are "Britwanks".)
I was born in the Republica de Tejas.Hero of Canton
I think for some idea of what the Allies face in reconstructing post-Nazi Europe, one should imagine the cost of rebuilding North Korea, multiplied by 40
And that's not including trying to prevent anything even remotely resembling Nazim from arising in the future
don't forget Stalinism! Just as evil
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