The Anglo/American - Nazi War - The on-going mystery

[wcv215]

Philippines and West Alaska perhaps altough WA would need much of development that it could recover from nazi/soviet horrors. Not so sure with Korea. Cabalist China and poor Japan not help that very much.

West Alaska was not subjected to Nazi horrors. It was built up the Americans as a far eastern base and economic center.

 

[John Farrier]

Did the British occupation of the Faroe Islands continue throughout the end of the war? Did Denmark resume control over them after the restoration of civilian, native government to that country?

 

[JamesHunter]

Did the British occupation of the Faroe Islands continue throughout the end of the war? Did Denmark resume control over them after the restoration of civilian, native government to that country?

I expect that much like other free bits of occupied countries they'd probably have taken their independence by default long before Denmark was liberated/conquered. Possibly in some sort of league with Iceland and Greenland to compensate for their very low population in the global economy.

Also given its the closest place that will trade with them I expect the Faroe's would almost have to have picked up some Scottish influence over the period of the war.

 

[Captain Homicide]

You could make a thousand different AANW stories just based off the war in Europe alone but a great one would be a fanatical Waffen SS soldier in the 1960s undergoing deprogramming and trying to make a life for themselves while self reflecting on their now vanquished ideology.

 

[Johannes Parisiensis]

You could make a thousand different AANW stories just based off the war in Europe alone but a great one would be a fanatical Waffen SS soldier in the 1960s undergoing deprogramming and trying to make a life for themselves while self reflecting on their now vanquished ideology.

NEarest equivalent would be someone leaving Aum after the gas attack, or indeed leaving any cult.

 

[brooklyn99]

@CalBear What became of Hirohito? Given how thrashed Japan got with the combined blockade and bombings, how come he did not eventually throw the towel like otl?

Edit: Actually, did Hirohito even surrender? I know that even after the home islands fell, the Japanese military kept fighting in Korea and China. So I wonder if that insinuates that the emperor did not give any orders to surrender or if such went unheeded.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

I read the entire timeline and I gotta say wow, that was very well-written work. Extremely disturbing.

I assume that the European colonial empires are basically heading into the shitter even faster than OTL. Countries like France and the Netherlands will have no choice but to give their colonies independence earlier right?

Also speaking of France, that country is do devastated I can only imagine the political turmoil after it will be even worse than it was OTL. And for the US, it might become less inclined to military interventions and warfare after what it went through.

This WWII will definitely be remembered even more bitterly than before. And unlike the cheerful mood in some Allied countries I'm going to expect very little room of joy considering all the destruction that has happened. I can only imagine how much different the US will be here.

 

[CalBear]

I read the entire timeline and I gotta say wow, that was very well-written work. Extremely disturbing.

I assume that the European colonial empires are basically heading into the shitter even faster than OTL. Countries like France and the Netherlands will have no choice but to give their colonies independence earlier right?

Also speaking of France, that country is do devastated I can only imagine the political turmoil after it will be even worse than it was OTL. And for the US, it might become less inclined to military interventions and warfare after what it went through.

This WWII will definitely be remembered even more bitterly than before. And unlike the cheerful mood in some Allied countries I'm going to expect very little room of joy considering all the destruction that has happened. I can only imagine how much different the US will be here.

There are actually several "postscript" posts that cover, in vastly less detail, up to the early 21st Century, in the original thread. Colonialism is very much a dead letter. France's post-war arc was especially difficult. The Anglo/American countries formed an alliance that is quite active in maintain the peace.

Thanks for the kind words on the T/L.

 

[CalBear]

@CalBear What became of Hirohito? Given how thrashed Japan got with the combined blockade and bombings, how come he did not eventually throw the towel like otl?

Edit: Actually, did Hirohito even surrender? I know that even after the home islands fell, the Japanese military kept fighting in Korea and China. So I wonder if that insinuates that the emperor did not give any orders to surrender or if such went unheeded.

Can't throw in the towel if no one will hand it to you. ATL the Japanese were never hit with the double shock of the Soviets declaring war and rolling up the Kwantung Army like and area rug and two Nuclear weapons over a 72 hour period. This prevented the "Peace Party" in the Cabinet from ever getting a chance to allow Hirohito to end things. The IJA and IJN kept waiting to have their great moment where they could cause enough casualties to salvage something, anything. They did get a remembered fight on the Asian Mainland, but nothing close to what they had hoped for on Kyushu. What the got on Kyushu and the rest of the Home Islands was mass Famine and destruction.

Japan would have been VASTLY better off if the U.S. had hit them with a dozen Gen 1 special weapons,

 

[CalBear]

Did the British occupation of the Faroe Islands continue throughout the end of the war? Did Denmark resume control over them after the restoration of civilian, native government to that country?

The Faroes, like most of the other bits and pieces that were occupied by the WAllies, were given a Self Determination vote. They are in pretty much the same status as IOTL, part of Denmark, but effectively self ruled.

 

[brooklyn99]

Can't throw in the towel if no one will hand it to you. ATL the Japanese were never hit with the double shock of the Soviets declaring war and rolling up the Kwantung Army like and area rug and two Nuclear weapons over a 72 hour period. This prevented the "Peace Party" in the Cabinet from ever getting a chance to allow Hirohito to end things. The IJA and IJN kept waiting to have their great moment where they could cause enough casualties to salvage something, anything. They did get a remembered fight on the Asian Mainland, but nothing close to what they had hoped for on Kyushu. What the got on Kyushu and the rest of the Home Islands was mass Famine and destruction.

Japan would have been VASTLY better off if the U.S. had hit them with a dozen Gen 1 special weapons,

I see, and what became of Hirohito after all was said and done?

Also, is there anything more to say about this "remembered fight"? Like, whereabouts did it occur and was like on the same level as say, the battle of Okinawa? I am admittedly a sucker for "major battles" in conflicts.

 

[JamesHunter]

I see, and what became of Hirohito after all was said and done?

Also, is there anything more to say about this "remembered fight"? Like, whereabouts did it occur and was like on the same level as say, the battle of Okinawa? I am admittedly a sucker for "major battles" in conflicts.

Probably removed from power. I don't doubt "you can keep the Emperor," might still be necessary to end things but "not that one" would be an obvious addendum to that. In any case Japan would be even more messed up than OTL and without Red China there is no reason to rebuild it for decades.

Japan would have been VASTLY better off if the U.S. had hit them with a dozen Gen 1 special weapons,

But everyone else vastly worse off as while the Nazi's are dumb about physics even they would realise the NKVD planted data is fake at that point. Which could get very dicey if "stop this madness," still forces the Warm war and gives them a chance to try and catch up. The St Patrick's Day raids are unlikely to be nuclear but given the Nazi capacity for hiding things their bomb program will survive and might be used on Red Beach or Britain when the day comes.

 

[wcv215]

Also, is there anything more to say about this "remembered fight"?

There’s mention in the TL during the invasion of Sicily of fighting between German built tanks and American forces in Manchuria IIRC.

 

[JamesHunter]

There’s mention in the TL during the invasion of Sicily of fighting between German built tanks and American forces in Manchuria IIRC.

IIRC Panther's gifted to the Japanese. It did at least show that the Sherman would be weak and require extensive pack tactics (as OTL) and with ten more years prep the replacements were a match. Pity about the Panther III but they fielded a solution to it pretty quickly when they needed to.

 

[Captain Homicide]

The St Patrick's Day raids are unlikely to be nuclear but given the Nazi capacity for hiding things their bomb program will survive and might be used on Red Beach or Britain when the day comes.

As CalBear has stated if the Reich knew nuclear weapons were possible they would have had a substantial arsenal within a decade and there’s a very good chance they would have attacked the US and UK with them.

 

[JamesHunter]

As CalBear has stated if the Reich knew nuclear weapons were possible they would have had a substantial arsenal within a decade and there’s a very good chance they would have attacked the US and UK with them.

Eight years between (probably) Hiroshima and St Patrick's, probably too soon (as even OTL they seem to have been barking up the wrong tree to at least some extent) and ego may still get to the Nazi's and cost them the bomber force. That said the same sniffer tech used OTL will pick up their tests and presumably at that point the Allies nuke first and check any remains later.

 

[Captain Homicide]

pick up their tests and presumably at that point the Allies nuke first and check any remains later.

Nuclear weapons of the era aren’t a magic bullet against a continental power run by fanatics. CalBear explained why the WAllies didn’t simply nuke Germany right away in the story:

The British were eager, even demanding, to up the ante on the Reich by deploying nuclear weapons against several German population centers while the U.S. was equally resistant to revealing secret of the Bomb in a manner that would make clear to everyone in the world that such a weapon was possible. None of the decision makers believed that the destruction of even a dozen German cities would end the war, the Nazi state was otherwise too structurally sound for them to crumble that quickly, and enough of the Reich’s production was scattered across the rest of the continent that to ensure crippling the German economy would require deploying nuclear weapons across Western Europe, killing millions of innocent forced laborers in France, Norway, the Low Countries, and the rest of “Greater Germany”. The Americans could see nothing worse than deploying the “Ultimate Weapon” only to find the Reich still standing, bloodied by unbowed. That, Washington argued, millions of civilians killed across most of Europe and a defiant Reich still in power and able to pin the dead onto the Allies, was the worst of all possible situations. In the end, British heads cooled enough to stand down the six Vulcans that had already been bombed up and were waiting for final release.

 

[JamesHunter]

CalBear explained why the WAllies didn’t simply nuke Germany right away in the story:

If its known the Nazi's have the bomb the calculation changes. MAD won't work so get them before they get you.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

Hey so I read a postscript TL which was ok @CalBear. I do feel that it feels a bit too much like an "end of history"-like scenario. Assuming WWII in Europe resumed in 1954 wouldn't the US have supported coups in countries like Guatemala in order to maintain its influence? And after WWII what's stopping them from enforcing their domination over countries who have governments that are opposed to the Western-dominated capitalist order?

To clarify I would definitely see leftist movements and governments across the Global South that try to establish socialism or at least manage the economy in a way that it doesn't great massive inequality and I could also see the Anglo-American world order combatting it like the US did in OTL. Wouldn't it be the case for the A4 to ruthlessly oppose anti-capitalist movements across the world? I know there was the US-led invasion of Korea but wouldn't there be a lot more of those cases?

And what about neoliberalism? Wouldn't corporations and their allies find ways to push for the neoliberal policies of OTL? And what about the backlash to them?

 

[Captain Homicide]

Snip

I’m almost certain most (if not all) of these questions were addressed throughout this thread and the last one.

Socialism took a massive hit with the defeat of the USSR by the Reich in 1943 and its transformation into a backwater vassal state that supplied Germany until the Hot War ended. Afterwards it was still an impoverished third rate country so it never had much of a chance to spread Socialism around the world and support left wing movements. The same goes for China which ITTL is run by a cabal of racist fanatics intent on killing all non Chinese.

Capitalism and social democracy are very much the dominant systems ITTL. The A4 ostensibly lets countries alone as long as they aren’t killing their own people en masse or attacking other countries. They’re not engaged in the overthrow of dozens of governments like the West IOTL. Most of the world population lives in one kind of liberal democracy or another. There isn’t anything approaching OTL’s level of wealth inequality and poverty, there are only a handful of billionaires and the corporate tax rate is high. The post war world of AANW is by many metrics better, safer and more prosperous than OTL. The A4 maintains it through a combination of carrot and stick.