Probably the usual cavet, "How closely did they collaborate?" Anything above gritted teeth to save their peoples lives is probably kiss of death for keeping their crown.
The Anglo/American - Nazi War - The on-going mystery
- Thread starter CalBear
- Start date
Bookmark1995
Banned
Did they? Did Bulgaria's and Romania's governments cave and deport "the Jewish problem" to the Reich? Did they also participate in the pacification of the Western Soviet Union?
They took part in Barbarossa OTL. After that they'd be in to deep to get out. That said both were consitutional monarchies by that point so even if the King or Tsar screamed "You morons, what are you doing!" There is little they could have really done about it, especially with an SS gun to their heads for twenty years.
Of course they did. It wasn't a matter of "caving" as much it was a matter of "well, how do we manage to hide anything from the Gestapo for a couple decades". The Italians managed to protect part of their Jewish population, largely thanks to Vatican forgers ginning up phony baptismal documents for people's long since deceased grandparents that "proved" they weren't Jewish and the fact that the Reich's boot was very light on Mussolini's neck. The Romanians managed, based on local leadership (both civil and religious) initiative, to hide a few Roma, as did Italy.
The Gestapo took the rest, along with anyone and the family of anyone caught trying to hide people marked for "special handling".
Bookmark1995
Banned
Does the A4 overthrow their governments, or does being in the Nazi orbit (not by choice) mean they are let off with a written warning?
There were no governments when the Nazis withdrew. The countries went from Waffen SS control to WAllied military control. After that it was something similar to what happened IOTL Germany post war. Sheep were separated from the goats.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Oh....
Well at least Romania avoided the excesses of Communist Dracula...
So...that's good I guess?
I mean, they had almost two decades of Nazi rule so... make of that what you will
You know... I really wouldn't be suprised if the German population would sink so much thanks too, the bombings, the biological weapons, the low life quality, deindustrialization, mass suicide (probably because of a lot of depression) and in general a distaste of producing offsprings either thanks to the bad life quality, the enormous shame of being German or simply both of them (maybe even bring a big alcohol problem like Russia had after the fall of the USSR OTL), that after enough decades, maybe even 2 centuries reforestation takes place in Germany, turning Germany into a giant nature reserve. Maybe if Germany has only a population of around 10 million, mixed with a low population density I could see the A4 turning Germany into a nature reserve. Maybe something like "United Nations nature reserve of Germany". Ironically that could increase tourism in Germany if it has more nature and less Germans in it. Maybe the Lüneburg Heath turning something like this?
Calbear, years ago someone asked what would happen if this Germany was isoted to otl 1944, you replied that they have enought strength and technology for a world conquest.
I ask something different but similar, since I (finally) teased the whole tl and saw the video series of it on YouTube, and Berlin was some kind of Nazi Constantinople. Since today is the anniversary of 75 years of the battle of Berlin, let's say that a intact Berlin, from just before the st. Patrick day attacks was isoted to OTL at the time of Steiner attack, with the Soviets coming from all sides. The Berlin from your timeline comes with all troops stationed there at the moment, and also any infrastructure around the city that is in territory not held by the Soviets at the time of the isot, what kind of result would come from this? Are the Soviets able to capture it? What about the western allies? (Nukes not allowed for the first two years for the ASB sake).
I ask something different but similar, since I (finally) teased the whole tl and saw the video series of it on YouTube, and Berlin was some kind of Nazi Constantinople. Since today is the anniversary of 75 years of the battle of Berlin, let's say that a intact Berlin, from just before the st. Patrick day attacks was isoted to OTL at the time of Steiner attack, with the Soviets coming from all sides. The Berlin from your timeline comes with all troops stationed there at the moment, and also any infrastructure around the city that is in territory not held by the Soviets at the time of the isot, what kind of result would come from this? Are the Soviets able to capture it? What about the western allies? (Nukes not allowed for the first two years for the ASB sake).
Large parts of Zone Rouge are still uninhabitable a century later and they weren't subject to the same lethal mix of chemical, biological and radiological toxins.I've seen quite a few comments here (+ previous thread) about how Germany's landscape has been so thoroughly battered and poisoned that its environment is a mess even 50 years later and indeed "may never recover". I think this in the short term this is correct, large parts of Germany in 1965 will probably look like the surface of the moon, and be utterly uninhabitable for the forseeable future. Longer term, however, this could be the best thing to happen to the local environments, if our admittedly limited experience with involuntary parks* such as the OTL Chernobyl Exclusion Zone (or even the Korean DMZ) is to be followed - over the medium term (i.e. a few generations), the short-term massive damage to the local ecology is, ironically, more than made up by the complete lack of human presence. Even the Verdun battlefield, which was as utterly destroyed as any place on Earth can be, and will be off-limits for hundreds of years, looks like this today:
Which is not exactly barren wasteland.
The A4 stance towards any sort of real economic development and reindustrialisation in Germany, probably helps. I would not be at all surprised if, by the 2010s, we were seeing the early stages of natural reforestation in large parts of Germany and especially in the exclusion zones, despite the toxins, pathogens, unexploded bombs, and other assorted nasties that make them quite lethal to higher forms of life. A cliche, but Nature's resillience is not to be underestimated when left alone to do its thing.
*A particularly apt term in this case as it was originally coined as a description for parts of the natural world that had either been so messed up or had lost all value to human exploitation and were left to grow wild again. Sterling's original prediction was that these places would be overrun with weeds and have a highly "unnatural" ecology. Instead what we've observed is that these places more or less revert to their pre-human ecological state within a generation or so.
Of course, absolutely. Although - radiological? Referring to the WW1 Red Zones here.
I was comparing the historical Zone Rouge, diminished but very much still uninhabitable, a century after the Great War, despite remediation efforts, with the more severely damaged areas in this timeline, which included biological and radiological weapons as well as CW agents more potent than those of WW1.
It is easier now than in the immediate post-war period. Even a trace of German accent in the first few post war years was an invitation for a mass beating.
There wouldn't be enough combat power around Berlin to hold off a couple million troops. Soviet losses would be higher thanks to the increased lethality of the 1954 Panther and better anti-tank weapons replacing little kids and old men with panzerfaust but the endgame would have the same result.
I guess that German is anyway still dangerous go to Prague, Warsaw, Russia or Palestine kibbutzes?
Altough in other hand perhaps they can claim being Swiss. I know that Swiss German is quiet different from standard German but would other notice difference?
In this 'verse probably. Also given German is a language associated with hellspawn its possible the Swiss German's have mass switched to Frenxh or Italian anyway.
Or then they begin push Swiss being totally separated language from German.