Sun Hao doesnt happen question...

KittyKat

Im a pretty big three kingdoms aficionado(or so I claim to be) and would love to try my hand at actually doing a hypothetical timeline where Sun Hao of Wu's disastrous reign never happened. I've been reading up on the relations of Jin and Wu following Shu-Hans fall and apparently the Sima family pursued peaceful relations with Wu but Sun Hao sought war anyway. Now here comes my question, If Sun Hao is butterflied away(one of his brothers takes over instead of him), could Wu have survived for a decent amount of time? Jin was in total chaos after Sima Yan, while most of that chaos could be butterflied away due to a surviving Wu, and unstable Jin all but assures Wu's Survival but for how long? If anyone is more knowledgeable about all this then some help would be greatly appreciated because im at a total loss of what happens to Wu after the third century.:confused:
 

profxyz

Well firstly, there's always going to be the fundamental imbalance of population and resources between Jin and Wu: by 280 Jin had at least 3 times the tax-paying population of Wu and probably had approximately the same advantage in terms of soldiers.

I don't doubt that the Sima family wanted peace with Wu initially following the fall of Shu-Han... since Wei itself was going to be supplanted by Jin itself in the following year. Long-run, however, the power disparities between Jin and Wu will mean that there's always incentive for the former to eliminate the latter and be the sole ruler of all China.
 
BBadolato

BBadolato

Even with out Sun Hao, Wu is basically outnumbered in everything, the end result would probably be either going down fighting or surrendering. The only thing that could give Wu hope is if the conflict between the Sima and Cao families erupt into outright warfare.
 

KittyKat

profxyz said:
Well firstly, there's always going to be the fundamental imbalance of population and resources between Jin and Wu: by 280 Jin had at least 3 times the tax-paying population of Wu and probably had approximately the same advantage in terms of soldiers.

I don't doubt that the Sima family wanted peace with Wu initially following the fall of Shu-Han... since Wei itself was going to be supplanted by Jin itself in the following year. Long-run, however, the power disparities between Jin and Wu will mean that there's always incentive for the former to eliminate the latter and be the sole ruler of all China.
Click to expand...

BBadolato said:
Even with out Sun Hao, Wu is basically outnumbered in everything, the end result would probably be either going down fighting or surrendering. The only thing that could give Wu hope is if the conflict between the Sima and Cao families erupt into outright warfare.
Click to expand...


I guess I have my answer then.:(

Although outright civil war for Wei is an interesting concept that im definitely going to look into. If the northern part of Wei gets destroyed(similar to our timeline after Jin fled to the south) then the resource difference wont be as much of an issue.

Sharunaku said:
Kind of found three potential PoD to buff Wu:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Rebellions_in_Shouchun
Had any one of them went successfully Wu would gain a big bite out of Wei, while devastating the influence of Sima clan.
Click to expand...

Knew about that but didn't think I could change the timeline that much starting a POD with the rebellions(specifically Zhuge Dan). Definitely going to read more into that now that you bring it up though.
 
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