Suleyman defeats Murad, a scenario

[Keenir]

1617 - Pachymerid sailors become the first Europeans to locate New Zealand. As in Australia before, alliances are made with chiefs the Pachymerids find suitable, and joint forces expand the territory of both sides to mutual benefit {though not to the benefit of those being expelled}.

1625 - the King of Persia dies & is succeeded by his nephew (as he declared his son a dunce unfit for the throne). The son, once he is formally declared King, choses to restrict all dealings with the west. He is instrumental in the Treaty of Chardemesh, in which the Persian grasp on the Most Serene Republic to their west is tightened, and the Republic is granted all of the land from the border with the Turco-Hungarian Empire down to Egypt -- contingent upon the fact that Persian citizens are to have complete and utter freedom of movement throughout the Republic & are completely safe from molestation and prosecution by Republic citizens. The Republic accepts these terms.

1626 - The King of France-and-England has his cardinals appoint an anti-Pope, citing the Medici Popes' ignoring the west & only paying attention to matters in the Holy Roman Empire, Italy, and points east.

The Most Serene Republic of Philistia assures France-and-England that, should it come to war, the Republic would side with the rightful holder of the chair of St. Peter: France's anti-Pope. Granted, the Republic would prefer it did not come to war, as the Republic has developed a tradition of avoiding involvement in the western Continent, prefering its immediate vicinity.

Naples openly declares itself on France-and-England's side.

Portugal, having attained supremacy over the Aragonese half of its nation-self, declares that it too is siding with France-and-England in this matter, as they have a point. Portugal doesn't care for France's anti-Pope, as they have their own Portugese canidate for the chair of St. Peter.

1629 - The Grandmaster of the Most Serene Republic, lord over his nation, warily eyes a growing power within his kingdom: a charismatic cleric who is attracting many followers, Christian and Muslim alike; this cleric is known to history as Al-Hud[1], though he never claimed to be a prophet, only a messenger, a standard-bearer.

One of the most notable things about Al-Hud's message was that he offered a return to a more Abrahamic line of thought and diet. He spat on those who suggested that he wished to do away with the Commandments and religious laws. Among the Abrahamic things of Al-Hud's sect are that it is clean to serve meat with milk, for that was what "Abraham the Great" ate.

Rumors begin to circulate that Al-Hud is, in fact, from the Most Serene Republic's microscopic Jewish population.

1633 - The King of France sends one of his daughters to marry the newly-crowned king of Naples.

Birth of the first child of the king of Naples: a girl.

1634 - Birth of the second child of the king of Naples: a girl.

The Grandmaster invites Al-Hud to dine with him, offering a peaceful reconciliation. Al-Hud, believing that do reconcile -- what he percieves as his mission & the established order -- would be apostasy(sp), and he refuses the Grandmaster. As if that were not bad enough, Al-Hud seduces the Grandmaster's favorite wife (the Grandmaster has two, as did his predecessor, and his before him). As much as the Grandmaster would like to have Al-Hud executed on the spot, the Grandmaster's favorite threatens to join her spirit to Al-Hud's...so the Grandmaster allows the cleric to take the cleric's followers and begone from the city of Jerusalem before the end of the week. Al-Hud leaves, and the Grandmaster sends the elite of his army after Al-Hud.

Al-Hud dies from wounds recieved fleeing the lands around Jerusalem. The remnants of his followers - estimates vary from 5% to 10% of the original followers - continue to flee into Persia, where they are not harmed: on the condition that the refugees continue their flight to the east & not stay and settle in Persia. As much as he seems to have disliked comparisons with Moses in his lifetime, in death Al-Hud becomes a Moses-figure to his followers, seen as a great leader who was kept from reaching the future (promised?) land of his people.

1635 - Construction begins on the western coast of New Zealand's South Island, where Pachymerid telescopes are now to be made.

1637 - Birth of the third child of the king of Naples: a boy.

Pachymerid Maori invade the North Island of New Zealand & Stewart Island.

Sforza IV rises to the throne of his nation.


Footnotes:
1 - Only the history of this ATL.

 

[bill_bruno]

What about the Safavids?

Just FYI, the first Safavid leader was Ismail I, who ascended in 1501. It was during his reign that you see the forced conversion of Persia to Shi'i Islam. I'm not entirely sure but does their crusade take them to the Mediterranean in this TL?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid#Beginnings

Likewise, have you butterflied out Shah Abbas, the conqueror?

 

[Keenir]

An excellent question

...I regret that I cannot provide a yes-or-no answer.

Just FYI, the first Safavid leader was Ismail I, who ascended in 1501. It was during his reign that you see the forced conversion of Persia to Shi'i Islam. I'm not entirely sure but does their crusade take them to the Mediterranean in this TL?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid#Beginning

it's entirely possible that a Shi'i crusade to the Med did take place in this TL -- in the mid to late 1400s, taking advantage of the Ottomans crumbling & distracted elsewhere, along with Mamluk Egypt being unable to prevent any land grabs in the Levant.

It was only after Persia reached the Med's coastline that the Knights of St. John established a state around Jerusalem, their position increasingly subordinate to Persia as time passes.

Likewise, have you butterflied out Shah Abbas, the conqueror?

I'm honestly not sure. Certainly an Abbas-like Shah is not out of the question (and it would fit in for what I have planned for Persia in the coming years of this ATL).


I thank you for your time & your comments. have nice days.


(edited to add: I just dug this up from the ATL: "1601 - Dispute over succession in the Persian royal family provides the Knights with an opportunity which they seize: the Knightly State of Jerusalem quickly takes complete control of all of Cyprus, save for the easternmost finger of land in the north.

When the new Persian monarch confronts the Knights, the Knights inform the monarch that the terms of the relationship (as set out in that treaty over a century ago) have not changed: Persian merchants will still get preferential treatment over merchants from anywhere else in the known world, and Shia Islam and Knightly Christianity (Catholic in origin, but becoming more and more Assyrian in flavor) are still the only tolerated faiths on the island.

1602 - When informed by pilgrims that the Persians get better treatment than do Italians, the Pope strongly condemns the Knights, and sends them a letter instructing them (the Knights) to undo this thing that the Pope so obviously sees as wrong.")

 

[DominusNovus]

This is a really funky timeline. Neat.

 

[gleizou]

Sforza IV rises to the throne of his nation.

Sforza is a family name. You can call him Lodovico IV Sforza if you want, but not Sforza IV....

Funky TL indeed...

glz

 

[Keenir]

Sforza is a family name. You can call him Lodovico IV Sforza if you want, but not Sforza IV....

Funky TL indeed...

glz

oh. many thanks for the correction. *goes back to fix the text file*

and I thank you for your praise for this TL. it helps.

This is a really funky timeline. Neat.

thanks.

more on the way, I hope. *tries to get brain to work again*

 

[Keenir]

And after a long silence....the return...

1635 - Construction begins on the western coast of New Zealand's South Island, where Pachymerid telescopes are now to be made.
1637 - Birth of the third child of the king of Naples: a boy.
Pachymerid Maori invade the North Island of New Zealand & Stewart Island.
The young Sforza, Ludovico IV rises to the throne of his nation.

1640-1717 (and generally onwards) - the skirmishes between Persia and its eastern neighbors, force Persia to begin a gradual improvement in its weapons, focusing on its cannons and guns; scholars recognize 1640 as the start of the Mechanical Revolution, though no upturning of society took place. Buffered by the Serene Republic, Europe is left behind when it comes to gunmaking.

1642 - the King of France-and-England tries to convince the Pachymerid lord Ludovico IV to recognize the French anti-Pope as the rightful Pope. Ludovico replies with a Thesis which explains that the Pachymerids recognize the Rightfulness of a Pope by his acts, and when there is no Rightful Pope, then there is only the rule of the Select, who are chosen by God to rule.

The "Select" are not an arbitrary bunch, as Ludovico IV goes on to say. One is selected by God HimSelf, and the selection is made known by the ability of the selected to perform minor (or major) miracles....no rising from the dead, but rather miracles much like the Disciples and the Prophets of the Old Testament. While this may have started as a way for Pachymerid missionaries to convince local chiefs to convert (the chiefs often claiming descent from a miracle-worker, anyway), Ludovico IV's action helped to cement it as a tradition of the faith. (Ludovico IV's left hand can foretell the weather, and his big toe can cure warts).

Hearing of the Thesis, the Vatican Pope sends a letter of thanks to Ludovico IV, and offers the hand of reconciliation. Ludovico IV politely refuses, saying that his nation is much too small to do help to either side.

1645 - Sighting of the Indian subcontinent by a wayward Pachymerid shipcaptain, who labels the speck of land (that he sees) 'Paul's Land', which is shortened into 'Paulland'.

1649 - Pachymerid landfall on Indian subcontinent.

Late 1651 - arrival of the Pachymerid scholar Ludovico Muller to the Indian subcontinent, accompanying a supply ship helping to establish the Pachymerid Church on the subcontinent; as yet, their settlement and ministry exists at the tolerance of the local lord.

Early 1662 - L.Muller publishes his treatise 'On the Christ-like teachings of the Non-Christians of Paulland', which focuses primarily on the cultural group Muller has grown to like above all other native groups: the Jains, with their doctrine of peace and no-harming. For this work, Muller is widely considered one of the Select.

Mid-1662 - Angered by an offense against a prominent member of their community (particularly the guy's daughter & her honor), the Sikh community convinces the local lord to let the Pachymerids be wiped from the face of the land. While this does not end the Pachymerid presence on the subcontinent (there are survivors, who spread throughout the countryside and beyond), it ends the Euro-Australian involvement in the subcontinent.

Late 1662 - Ludovico IV reads the works of L.Muller, and comes to the conclusion that the teachings of Christ were taught to different groups around the world, each according to what they needed and would understand...culminating in the Coming of Christ in the Holy Land.

Mid-1664 - the Vatican Pope reads L.Muller's treatise, and accepts the same conclusion that Ludovico IV had reached.

1670 - Surviving an assassination attempt (the bullet hit him, going into the right part of his chest), Ludovico V is given the throne by Ludovico IV who steps down.

early 1673 - Ludovico V believes himself to be unfairly alienated by the King of France-and-England (who's just too busy to show the kid the ropes of ruling), so he approaches the Vatican Pope & offers a reconciliation between Catholics and Pachymerids.

late 1673 - the Vatican Pope accepts the Pachymerid offer, believing that it will provide both a weapon against the nations arrayed against him, and that the Pachymerids will accept true Catholocism.

The Pachymerids, on the other hand, take to viewing this Vatican Pope as a Rightful Pope...it might be a step towards rejoining Catholocism, or it might not; time will tell.

1680 - Portugal returns to the Vatican Pope's side.

1682 - Pachymerid Maori establish a beachhead in southern Indonesia.

1678 - the Al-Hud movement fragments as the leadership come to blows, the remnants adopting wholesale the ways of the people around them.

1700 - Landfall in the Yucatan. Contact is made with the Mayans.

1705 - a rough translation of Mayan knowledge begins to be transmitted back to Europe. This continues for several decades as more and more is learned. The native beliefs, of course, are worth little: religious scholars see the Gift to the Mayans as being the calendar, rather than religious.

1710-1789 - the period generally called "the Clock Years" owing to the influence of the Mayan obsession with calendars and clocks, with many European attempts to reform and improve their own calendar.

1710-1815 (or '16) - the Intellectual (or Philisophical) Revolution in Europe; a fair amount more bloody than the Mechanical Revolution was for Persia.


tbc....There's a War coming up.