Starship Troopers.

Alternatehistorybuff5341

Starship Troopers. A horrible, yet ammusing, film from the 1990s directed by Paul Verhoeven. The film is set in the distant future, where Earth has been united into a Federation, and in fact has colonized other planets. The Earth is attacked by a species of aliens known as Bugs (which are giant bugs), when the Bugs shoot an asteroid at Beunos Ares (then a major first world city). The film the chrionicles the story of a soldier who is fighting in the war after his family is killed in Beunos Ares. The story is also interjected with the occasional news report describing the status of the world and the war. The film is an obvious satire of militarism and fear mongering.

It is also set in a world where the Nazis won World War II.

Though never stated right out in the film, the director did confirm that the story takes place in an alternate world where the Nazis were victorious. Knowing this, the setting makes a bit more sense. The Facist like government, the undying patriotism of the populous, the militaristic status of the state and the depiction of the enemy (which the film heavily implies to be sentient beings) all are reminiscent of the Third Reich. It makes a lot of sense that this World Federation is a successor state of a Super Power Nazi Germany.

What do you guys think?
 
Baconheimer

Baconheimer

How do you know the Nazis won? Also did the Nazis win in Strangers in A Strange Land, because they were talking about Gestapo and S.S.?
 

Mad Missouri

Alternatehistorybuff5341 said:
The Director said so. He said that was why the world was so obviously Fascist Militaristic like.
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Really? When did he say that? I thought the script was loosely based on the book of the same name which is not based on a world where the Nazis win. I guess Verhoevens Nazis were just as stupid as ours seeing how there are high ranking black military officers.

But then again this is the same guy that made RoboCop and Total Recall which all have similar themes of the people raising up against the "man" so it really wouldn't be surprising if he didn't even know the was a book before his movie. But it sort explains why Michael Ironsides got his role and why Rico is white not Filipino.
 
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Mad Missouri

Alternatehistorybuff5341 said:
I don't know when but I saw it on Wikipedia and Internet Movie Database. And it was only loosely based off of the book if I remember correctly.
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I would not put too much stock in the deep artistic meanings of the film. It is what it is, a silly summer shoot'em up full as beautiful people doing unrealistic things and wearing too tight clothes to show off the female character's breasts. Besides a few real funny parts (like the shower part) its general typical Hollywood crap.

What I like to see is a adaptation of the book done well. I would love to see Rico and his Dad stepping on that ship together realising that they finally have something in common at the end of the book.
 

kspence92

Keep in mind the film is set a thousand years from now, anything could have happened between now and then, dosnt require a Nazi victory.

I vaguely recall something from the book mentioning the rise of a one world government in the aftermath of world war 3
 

Monty Burns

Interestingly, when I first saw the film, it was critizised as a bad trash-action movie that glorifies war and fighting. Only recently, though, I read an article in which it was described as a very good parody on militarism and fascism...
 

Yorel

Starship troopers isn't set in a world where the Nazis won World War II. It is based of a book written by a man (whom I forgot the name) that used it to show that a nation ruled by the Army was flawless. Thus, in the book Starship Troopers, you are a citizen of the Earth Federation once you've joined the Army and made your time there. I'm not sure if Citizen is the term because people that didn't join the Army just can't vote if I remember correctly.

The 1990 film is an adaptation but also a pardoy of that book since it also showed the bad side we know of militaristic regimes: facism. The film shows this mostly with the propaganda and the fact everything is in the hands of the army.

For my part, I just laugh when I see the film. When you've got a drill sergent doing recruitment who says "Heavy infantry is what made me the man I am!" while he has lost an eye, an arm and his two legs is simply silly. :p I'm also glad it was around: Blizzard entairtnment said it was one of their source of inspiration for Starcraft :D
 
Albidoom

Albidoom

A very loose adaption of the book (originally a trooper in his power armor suit would have a decent chance to win a one-on-one fight with a bug in hand-to-hand combat). The parody parts are admittedly entertaining, but the lengths he goes to portray the military as bad and rather stupid get a bit annoying.
 

Alternatehistorybuff5341

Albidoom said:
A very loose adaption of the book (originally a trooper in his power armor suit would have a decent chance to win a one-on-one fight with a bug in hand-to-hand combat). The parody parts are admittedly entertaining, but the lengths he goes to portray the military as bad and rather stupid get a bit annoying.
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Indeed. Portraying Military Dictatorships or Fascist Militarism as bad is one thing, but it always bugs me how some films depict the military as EVOL.
 

BlackWave

Alternatehistorybuff5341 said:
Indeed. Portraying Military Dictatorships or Fascist Militarism as bad is one thing, but it always bugs me how some films depict the military as EVOL.
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As opposed to mindlessly depicting it as consisting entirely of completely selfless GI Joe heroes fighting for FREEDUM?

Anyway, there's always the ST CGI series which is somewhat closer to the book, and free of the annoying political lectures from there.
 
Albidoom

Albidoom

Alternatehistorybuff5341 said:
Indeed. Portraying Military Dictatorships or Fascist Militarism as bad is one thing, but it always bugs me how some films depict the military as EVOL.
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I even don't mind the evil part, it's the very stupid tactics Verhoeven scripted upon them.
Heck, even Haig did at least start with decent artillery bombardments before sending the infantry in masses. ;)
 

BlackWave

Albidoom said:
I even don't mind the evil part, it's the very stupid tactics Verhoeven scripted upon them.
Heck, even Haig did at least start with decent artillery bombardments before sending the infantry in masses. ;)
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Stupid tactics? As the first thirty seconds of the film make very clear, it's a fuckin' parody. You may as well complain about Team America's depiction of anti-terrorist operations. :p
 

Perkeo

Banned
Yorel said:
Starship troopers isn't set in a world where the Nazis won World War II. It is based of a book written by a man (whom I forgot the name) that used it to show that a nation ruled by the Army was flawless. Thus, in the book Starship Troopers, you are a citizen of the Earth Federation once you've joined the Army and made your time there. I'm not sure if Citizen is the term because people that didn't join the Army just can't vote if I remember correctly.
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The novel was written by Robert A. Heinlein - and I am not sure wether it's set in a world where the Nazis won World War II. There is a scene were two Germans are chewed out for - amongst other things - not being fluent in standard ENGLISH. On the other hand, one of them comes from Königsberg, and there IS a reference to Hitler amongst other great military leaders, so Germany does do better than IOTL in WWII.

Yorel said:
The 1990 film is an adaptation but also a pardoy of that book since it also showed the bad side we know of militaristic regimes: facism. The film shows this mostly with the propaganda and the fact everything is in the hands of the army.

For my part, I just laugh when I see the film. When you've got a drill sergent doing recruitment who says "Heavy infantry is what made me the man I am!" while he has lost an eye, an arm and his two legs is simply silly. :p I'm also glad it was around: Blizzard entairtnment said it was one of their source of inspiration for Starcraft :D
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I think scenes like theese show that it was not supposed to advertise, but to parodise facism - although it does make the difference between trash and parody appear small.

By the way, those satiric elements are only in the movie. The book appears to be serious militarism.
 
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WCDouglas

Spoiler Alert, avoid if you would rather read the book! (It’s awesome, but preachy)

Ah, were to begin.... The book STARSHIP TROOPERS (which won a Hugo) was, as said earlier written by Robert Anson Heinlein, (considered the "Dean of Science Fiction) and with Asimov and Clark the foundation (couldn’t resist) of the hard SF.

Spoilers Start:

As for the book, the change in history is sometime in the 50s or 60s (the Korean War is referenced, so that as the POD is possible). From reading the book (many times) it appears the 2nd half of the 20th century was continuous escalating wars between slowing shift power blocs. It is stated in a classroom scene, the “final major” war was between the US-Russian Alliance and the Chinese at the end of the 20th century, which, and while it does state, I inferred the war ended from exhaust of both sides, as oppose to victory.

As for the Federation government, once again from class room scenes (for those who haven’t read, a lot of time is spent in classrooms!), the “new” government forms over time after the old ones either collapse or loss control in the post war chaos… These “new” local governments are formed by returning veterans of the war… note, the treaty that ended then the wars ignored the POW issue, so the veterans, go they’re in less happy…

Break, one last important point on the book… Federation Citizenship is the right to vote, serve in government, the requirement to serve on posses and juries, and to pay higher taxes. You earn the citizenship by, any time after your eighteenth birthday volunteering for “Federal service,” for two (2) years, which the government has to allow you to serve, no manner how bad your heath is or how stupid you may be. “Federal service” is define as anything the government tells you to do for two years (or longer if an emergency or war occurs). This can be the military, it can be doing research or being the research subject, it could be sweep the courthouse for two years (all from the book, I inferred there is also a peace corps type organization, and other “service” jobs). Other key point, while in Federal serive, you can not vote or serve in government! Hardly militarism

With all that say, let the debate continue!
 
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Readman

Just for what it is worth, I don't think Starship Troopers is a terrilble or bad film. Perhaps not being familiar with the source material might be a reason for that. I like it though. :p
 

WCDouglas

Now, my editorial comment, aftert the film came out, and even critics who disliked the book, criticized it for not being Heinlein's Starship Troopers... Pretty much everyone associated with the movie admitted they have either not read the book or had just read "reviews." (There's a great making of video, where Ironside, starts with, "it's hard to read because it about a mitary facist dictatorship...so I couldn't finsh it...") Maybe that's were the Nazi's won storis started. BTW in the book the uniforms are green, and the full dress is maroon.

Ultimately the book is two things, and a "boy coming of age story", and RAH venting about the direction he thought the west was going.

** Interesting trivia, RAH started the book after traveling in Soviet Russia and returning to the US unilaterally giving up nuclear testing (the Soviets setoff the Tsar bomb and a whole serious of "new" tac device right after), the bok he stopped working on to write "Starship Troopers" was title "A Martian Named Smith" later changed to..... "Stranger in a Strange Land," gork on that....


For me, another attempt at a movie, even with the anti-miltary/western bias would be worth if, they show, power suits and being shot out of the transports! And for those who would like a look at his thought about writing the book, check out "Expanded Universe"
 
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