Not sure if it was mentioned, but what if there had been no baseball strike in 1994, when the Montreal Expos had the best record in the majors? This franchise had only been to the playoffs once before (1981), and had a terrible stadium, but the fans were coming around and a playoff run could have changed the history of the franchise (much as Seattle's 1995 playoff run did for them). Instead, the strike wiped out the season, the management panicked and traded away most of its good players, and the fans gave up hope. Plans for a new stadium were shelved and the franchise finally moved away in 2004. The strike started the death spiral of baseball in Montreal.
Sports What Ifs.
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
Another 1994 no-strike what if....Matt Williams of the SF Giants was on pace to beat Roger Maris' home-run record. And doing it legitimately.....not with any assistance from substances....
Who doesn't? Don Fehr-the head of the Player's Union, was probably the most hated man in America at the time.
McFadden was looking like he would be at Adrian Peterson caliber in 2011 before his lis-franc injury and Campbell was a somewhat above average QB (but not good) so if they stay healthy, the Carson Palmer situation (Although he was definitely an improvement over Campbell) never happens. McFadden stays healthy and he puts up about 1400 to 1500 yards rushing and the Raiders
Most importantly, the rest of the teams in the AFC West that year were pretty bad. This is how I think it would've played out:
Week 7 Chiefs at Raiders. Without Campbell going down, the Raiders don't lose 28-0 like in OTL due to Boller's ineffectiveness and Palmer's unfamiliarity with the offense. It's quite possible that the Raiders don't lose at all. This was the game in which Darren McFadden had his lis franc so perhaps Campbell being QB butterflies it away? In this case, we'll say it does and mark it as a Raider win.
Week 8 Broncos at Raiders. Tebow is starting by now for the Broncos and while I see him giving the Raider defense fits, it won't be because of his arm. With McFadden and Campbell, the Raiders try to play the same kind of game as they did the year prior against Denver at the Oakland Coliseum. I give Oakland the win here as a lot of the mistakes they made later in the game with desperate Palmer throws.
Week 9 Raiders at Chargers. The Raiders won this game in OTL but I don't see that happening here. Palmer and his bold throws were a lot of the reason for the win. Campbell is not as accurate or confident with the bold throws so McFadden would be seeing a lot of checkdown passes.
Ultimately, with all these things in place, I see the Raiders as a 9-7 team barely beating the Chargers for the division who finish 8-8 and both the Broncos and Chiefs finish at 7-9 and 6-10 respectively. The difference would be that the Raiders beat SD in Week 17 with the running game and control the clock keeping the ball away from Rivers thus keeping their sorry pass defense unexposed which is what killed them in OTL.
Wild Card Steelers at Raiders
Even with Pitt having a lot of injuries (Although Ryan Clark will be playing as he gets deathly ill from Altitude Sickness in Denver which was OTL WC), DMac would need to have a very big game for the Raiders to get the W. I would give a 50/50 chance that the Raiders win, because even though Roethlisberger was playing injured, he is tough and will put up 300 + yards passing against that defense. It could be a very high scoring game.
Divisional Raiders at Patriots
This is about as far as I could see Oak going. There would be a bunch of hype and pre game talk about the 10th anniversary of the Tuck Ruling which will generate controversy but unlike that game, there will be no questions regarding the winner of this one. Most likely, Belichick will focus on shutting McFadden down and forcing Campbell to win the game which will be a disaster. There will probably be a moment or two in the 1st half in which the Raiders look like they'll make it a game but those moments will be very short lived.
The big question is what happens after the season. Does Hue Jackson stay on as coach considering he took the Raiders to the playoffs in only his first year? With having their 1st and 2nd round draft picks, do the Raiders decide to go after a QB in the 1st Round as a successor to Jason Campbell? Does Reggie McKenzie still become the GM post Al. I think Hue Jackson has greater pull in this scenario.
FDW
Banned
I've been meaning to fill out a sequel to this post for some time actually. I agree with your assessment on what Jason Campbell would be, I would rate McFadden's potential 2011 production a little higher (As OTL he was actually on a path for over 1600 yards Rushing and an additional 500 yards passing).
There are also a few other games that I think that The Raiders could've won TTL, like the game against The Bills early in the season and the game against the Lions at the end. I also think that both games against the Chargers are fundamentally winnable too, along with the game against The Dolphins. This would've brought The Raiders to a 13-3 record, and the No.2 seed in the AFC
My scenario had The 2011 Raiders at 13-3, The Chefs and Dolts at 7-9, and The Donks 6-10.
Those are nice, but the playoff picture would've been completely different in my scenario. With the Raiders at 13-3, they would've been No.2 in the AFC, with the rest of the conference breaking down as follows: Patriots No. 1, Raiders No. 2, Texans No. 3, Ravens No. 4, Jets No. 5, Bengals No. 6. The playoffs then unfold as follows: In the Wild Card round, San-Cheez and The Jest troll themselves again, While Schaub lives up to his Semi-Elite status and takes down the Bungles. Next in the Divisional Round, Joe Flapjack goes all Demolition Derby on The Patsies the second year in a row, with Darth Hoodius predictably not being amused. Meanwhile The Raiders draw The Texans at home, and with the force of 63,000 screaming idiots behind them proceed to remind Houston sports fans once more that their teams suck. They then draw the now Ray Lewis-less (and somewhat talent-depleted because Flapjack's HUEG contract bumpin the Salary Cap, remember The Ravens just won The Superbowl here) Ravens and in a thriller for the ages, somehow beat them and go on to face The Saints in a contest where both teams compete to see how awful their defenses are known as The Super Bowl. The Raiders win it all with a lucky interception late by Tyvon Branch.
Wait, remember what I said at the end of the post: There's no way that Al Davis would fire Tom Cable after making the playoffs in 2010, and now having a Superbowl on his resume after 2011 would give him plenty of breathing room. As for whether or Reggie Mckenzie still gets the GM job, I'd actually say yeah, he was apparently recommended to Mark Davis by several former Raiders staff, and he has the right kind of credentials in the first place, so he gets the job TTL. In fact, he gets the job 7 months earlier, as due to butterflies AL kicks the Can in May instead October.
As for whom Reggie might take in 2012 with a full slate of picks, my guess it would either be Bobby Wagner, Mychal Kendricks, or Courtney Upshaw ( Reggie loves his LB's) with their first pick, as The Raiders needed help in the LB corp, after that would be either OG or DT, and then probably CB.
I answer all of these in one of my latest AHs, "Completed Game," in my sig or at other online places where you can buy books (Print On Demand or ebook). It was a lot of fun, but yes, frustrating, not just because of what was lost, but because owners, to have some way to cut costs, might have started some things in motion that actually led to contraction. Everything was a mess on both sides then.
This is a pretty good WI. Wish I had thought of it.
I agree that the Oilers with Manning in the mid to late-70's would have been better.
In 75, I have them beating the Raiders in the AFC Playoffs (they beat them there earlier that year), but losing to Pittsburgh.
In 76, they would have made more of a run at a WC berth, but NE was too good.
In 77, they lose at Mile High in the first round, and with an anemic running game (Ronnie Coleman was the leading rusher with 660, and 1975 first round bust Don Hardeman, who fancied himself as the black Larry Csonka, only had 162), I am sure that they still trade up to get the Tyler Rose.
I see 78 and 79 going the same (with the Steelers taking it all), but 1980 is where the rubber meets the road in this scenario.
Archie doesn't get traded for Stabler like Pastorini did (Dan wanted to go back home to Northern California). In my opinion, that leads to a World Championship in 1980 because I don't see Manning throwing 28 picks like Stabler did.
With a SB title in tow, there is no way that GM Ladd Herzeg is going to convince Bud Adams to fire Bum Phillips. So, he is there in 1981.
Now, the Oilers went 7-9 that year. With Manning and Phillips there, though, and a better vibe that a SB win usually brings, I can see them making more of a run at a WC berth. They did start 4-2 that year, and had three other losses by seven points or less. I can see them winning two more games (against MIA and NO, who wouldn't have had Phillips in this world) and coming just short.
After that, it depends on whether or not Herzeg gets Adams' ear again like he did in 1980 in OTL. He wanted Bum to run a better offensive scheme and fire his offensive coaches. Phillips didn't want to because he felt like they didn't deserve it. They probably still decline some because of age, but it probably isn't as bad with Bum there.
I guess I didn't really consider the 2010 season in your scenario regarding this timeline although Jano making that field goal against AZ COULD but wouldn't absolutely change fortunes. Either way, I should've pointed out that I wasn't factoring in your 2010 timeline so my bad.
I do bring up 2011 since it had a lot more what if type questions than 2010 because there were a lot of things that changed drastically in that time. I also say this because the 2011 team had higher expectations than the 2010 team.
As for Tom Cable, AL would be more hard pressed to let him go but he still didn't like him and could find a way to get rid of him if possible. Hue Jackson was the guy he ultimately wanted in there.
FDW
Banned
It's alright. This whole scenario is about giving The Raiders four more playoff appearances after the 2000 season than they had OTL.
True, 2011 was kind of missed "year of destiny" for The Raiders. The Stars were all aligned for a deep playoff run for The Raiders, but all hell broke loose.
Which is convenient, because AL dies in May 2011, before he can really have the chance to get rid of Cable. And with Reggie helping Cable getting The Raiders through the gauntlet to a Super Bowl victory, Cable's job is secure.
Here's a quite broad based one: What if, the week before the event, Colorado bans "no holds barred" and UFC 1, and the whole UFC, never happens?
Duncan to Orlando
In the summer of 2000, Tim Duncan was very, very close to joining the Orlando Magic in FA. They were also going after Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady (who they got).
Grant Hill had injury problems, but if the Magic just got Duncan and T-Mac, that would have made them the frontrunners in the weak East.
Here is how their lineup would have looked:
PG: Darrell Armstrong
SG: T-Mac
SF: Mike Miller (00-01 Rookie of the year)
PF: Tim Duncan
C: John Amaechi
Top Backups: G Troy Hudson, PF Bo Outlaw
In a potential Finals matchup against LA, I like Orlando's chances of winning their first title. They had the better overall starting lineup, Troy Hudson gave LA problems, and they had three centers (or 18 fouls a game) to go against Shaq with Amaechi, Michael Doleac, and Andrew Declercq.
In the summer of 2000, Tim Duncan was very, very close to joining the Orlando Magic in FA. They were also going after Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady (who they got).
Grant Hill had injury problems, but if the Magic just got Duncan and T-Mac, that would have made them the frontrunners in the weak East.
Here is how their lineup would have looked:
PG: Darrell Armstrong
SG: T-Mac
SF: Mike Miller (00-01 Rookie of the year)
PF: Tim Duncan
C: John Amaechi
Top Backups: G Troy Hudson, PF Bo Outlaw
In a potential Finals matchup against LA, I like Orlando's chances of winning their first title. They had the better overall starting lineup, Troy Hudson gave LA problems, and they had three centers (or 18 fouls a game) to go against Shaq with Amaechi, Michael Doleac, and Andrew Declercq.
So I was watching the MLB Draft (yeah, I know 
), and I was reminded of one of my favorite recent baseball PODs/wet Tiger fantasies. Apparently in 2006, the Tigers LOVED Clayton Kershaw, were planning on drafting him, and Kershaw expected to be a Tiger... until Andrew Miller happened to fall to the sixth pick after being considered the favorite to be the number one pick. Miller turned out to be a bust... although I can't complain that much about him, since we traded him along with a number of other prospects that never turned out for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. Kershaw, obviously, is Kershaw.
I suppose that the most likely thing to happen is that Kershaw ends up being traded to the Marlins in Miller's place... or Miggy goes somewhere else, like the Angels or Yankees... but this is my dream, remember, and I want Miggy AND Kershaw and ALL the titles! The Miguel Cabrera trade was this:
Detroit gets:
Miguel Cabrera, 3B
Dontrelle Willis, LHP
Florida gets:
Cameron Maybin, OF (ranked Detroit's number one prospect)
Andrew Miller, LHP (ranked Detroit's number two prospect)
Eulogio de la Cruz, RHP (ranked Detroit's number five prospect)
Mike Rabelo, C
Dallas Trahern, RHP
Burke Badenhop, RHP
At that time (fortunately), the Tigers farm was pretty deep, so I think there is still enough ammo for Detroit to pry just Miggy from Florida. Let's say instead of Miller/Kershaw, it'll be Jair Jurrjens, who was at the time our number four prospect, and a guy who has done decent in the major leagues when healthy (but he's never healthy unfortunately). I understand that Florida probably wanted to dump Willis as well, but again, this is my fantasy.
And then, of course, I see no reason why we wouldn't still go through with the Curtis Granderson trade that netted us Max Scherzer and Austin Jackson. Granderson's still a favorite of mine, and since adding Kershaw to the team in 2009 probably gets us into the playoffs (since it took a collapse of epic proportions and a 163rd game to knock us out), maybe we decide to keep him. But I'll assume not so that I can dream of this as our rotation this year:
1) Verlander
2) Kershaw
3) Scherzer
4) Porcello*
5) Turner**/Smyly***
* - assuming we still draft Porcello at the bottom of the 2007 First Round.
** - assuming that we don't trade for Anibal Sanchez... both Fister trades I'm assuming do happen
*** - if Turner just can't cut it as a fifth starter, which he's struggling a lot in Miami
Oh and I'm also assuming we sign Prince Fielder in 2011, and trade him to the Rangers for Kinsler after 2013.
Kershaw on his own probably gets us to the playoffs in 2009; it wouldn't take much to get us in, since it took an enormous collapse and a 163rd game to prevent us from getting in. That means we play the Yankees, who swept the Twins in the ALDS. I doubt they sweep us, and we do have New York's number in the playoffs, but I'll assume that Kershaw on his own doesn't carry us past them. Kershaw isn't enough to get us into the postseason in 2010. In 2011, we're probably the number one seed, where we would play the Rays, who we should beat. The other series would then be Yankees v. Rangers; I'll assume that the Rangers win so that it's the same ALCS. In that ALCS we lost because our pitching was abysmal, in large part because of the rain. Switching the home parks changes a lot. I think we beat Texas. 2011 World Series would be a rematch of the 2006 World Series, Detroit v. St. Louis. The Texas-St. Louis series went seven games and was very close throughout. I think this Detroit team would be better than Texas and would beat St. Louis, we'll say in seven. 2012 we should make the World Series again against the Giants; Kershaw doesn't save us in that series, we were pathetic. So San Francisco wins the 2012 World Series. Then last year. The Boston ALCS. As much as I hate to say it, Kershaw probably doesn't save that series, since it was our hitting that failed us - Verlander, Scherzer, Sanchez, and Fister all pitched great. Knowing how the hitting has failed us - and how we need to pay Kershaw - Dombrowski moves Fielder as per OTL. And then who knows what happens this season.
Oh and here's an interesting side-nugget about this happening: Kershaw and Lions' QB Matthew Stafford are best friends, so the two being the faces of the city's football and baseball teams would be neat. Detroit's number one power couple.
But yeah, just that rotation of Verlander/Kershaw/Scherzer, plus Miggy still in the lineup, just has me drooling. I suppose I only count one ring, if things go as close to how they did IOTL, but I would have a ton of fun watching this team, even more than I already do. Sanchez is phenomenal, really a very underrrated pitcher, but I'd take Kershaw over him in a second. And having Kershaw wouldn't make me freak out about the rotation this year, because Verlander is really scaring me that he's about done being an elite pitcher, and Max has struggled recently. Anyways, any thoughts on this potential Tiger dynasty?
), and I was reminded of one of my favorite recent baseball PODs/wet Tiger fantasies. Apparently in 2006, the Tigers LOVED Clayton Kershaw, were planning on drafting him, and Kershaw expected to be a Tiger... until Andrew Miller happened to fall to the sixth pick after being considered the favorite to be the number one pick. Miller turned out to be a bust... although I can't complain that much about him, since we traded him along with a number of other prospects that never turned out for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. Kershaw, obviously, is Kershaw.I suppose that the most likely thing to happen is that Kershaw ends up being traded to the Marlins in Miller's place... or Miggy goes somewhere else, like the Angels or Yankees... but this is my dream, remember, and I want Miggy AND Kershaw and ALL the titles!
The Miguel Cabrera trade was this: Detroit gets:
Miguel Cabrera, 3B
Dontrelle Willis, LHP
Florida gets:
Cameron Maybin, OF (ranked Detroit's number one prospect)
Andrew Miller, LHP (ranked Detroit's number two prospect)
Eulogio de la Cruz, RHP (ranked Detroit's number five prospect)
Mike Rabelo, C
Dallas Trahern, RHP
Burke Badenhop, RHP
At that time (fortunately), the Tigers farm was pretty deep, so I think there is still enough ammo for Detroit to pry just Miggy from Florida. Let's say instead of Miller/Kershaw, it'll be Jair Jurrjens, who was at the time our number four prospect, and a guy who has done decent in the major leagues when healthy (but he's never healthy unfortunately). I understand that Florida probably wanted to dump Willis as well, but again, this is my fantasy.
And then, of course, I see no reason why we wouldn't still go through with the Curtis Granderson trade that netted us Max Scherzer and Austin Jackson. Granderson's still a favorite of mine, and since adding Kershaw to the team in 2009 probably gets us into the playoffs (since it took a collapse of epic proportions and a 163rd game to knock us out), maybe we decide to keep him. But I'll assume not so that I can dream of this as our rotation this year:
1) Verlander
2) Kershaw
3) Scherzer
4) Porcello*
5) Turner**/Smyly***
* - assuming we still draft Porcello at the bottom of the 2007 First Round.
** - assuming that we don't trade for Anibal Sanchez... both Fister trades I'm assuming do happen
*** - if Turner just can't cut it as a fifth starter, which he's struggling a lot in Miami
Oh and I'm also assuming we sign Prince Fielder in 2011, and trade him to the Rangers for Kinsler after 2013.
Kershaw on his own probably gets us to the playoffs in 2009; it wouldn't take much to get us in, since it took an enormous collapse and a 163rd game to prevent us from getting in. That means we play the Yankees, who swept the Twins in the ALDS. I doubt they sweep us, and we do have New York's number in the playoffs, but I'll assume that Kershaw on his own doesn't carry us past them. Kershaw isn't enough to get us into the postseason in 2010. In 2011, we're probably the number one seed, where we would play the Rays, who we should beat. The other series would then be Yankees v. Rangers; I'll assume that the Rangers win so that it's the same ALCS. In that ALCS we lost because our pitching was abysmal, in large part because of the rain. Switching the home parks changes a lot. I think we beat Texas. 2011 World Series would be a rematch of the 2006 World Series, Detroit v. St. Louis. The Texas-St. Louis series went seven games and was very close throughout. I think this Detroit team would be better than Texas and would beat St. Louis, we'll say in seven. 2012 we should make the World Series again against the Giants; Kershaw doesn't save us in that series, we were pathetic. So San Francisco wins the 2012 World Series. Then last year. The Boston ALCS. As much as I hate to say it, Kershaw probably doesn't save that series, since it was our hitting that failed us - Verlander, Scherzer, Sanchez, and Fister all pitched great. Knowing how the hitting has failed us - and how we need to pay Kershaw - Dombrowski moves Fielder as per OTL. And then who knows what happens this season.
Oh and here's an interesting side-nugget about this happening: Kershaw and Lions' QB Matthew Stafford are best friends, so the two being the faces of the city's football and baseball teams would be neat. Detroit's number one power couple.
But yeah, just that rotation of Verlander/Kershaw/Scherzer, plus Miggy still in the lineup, just has me drooling. I suppose I only count one ring, if things go as close to how they did IOTL, but I would have a ton of fun watching this team, even more than I already do. Sanchez is phenomenal, really a very underrrated pitcher, but I'd take Kershaw over him in a second. And having Kershaw wouldn't make me freak out about the rotation this year, because Verlander is really scaring me that he's about done being an elite pitcher, and Max has struggled recently. Anyways, any thoughts on this potential Tiger dynasty?
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Another Detroit draft based POD that is much more obvious: what if the Pistons had taken Carmelo Anthony or Chris Bosh instead of Darko in 2003? There was apparently some question whether Darko was too young to take in 2003 before he was eventually cleared... I don't know the rules but I think it was because he turned eighteen only a couple days before the draft that he was eligible. So our POD will be that he was born a week later and ruled ineligible for 2003, so that he can be the second pick in 2004 after Dwight Howard and ruin someone else's future.
What we really needed back then was a power forward; this was before the Rasheed Wallace trade, and we figured that Darko could turn into a Dirk Nowitzki-esque player for us in a couple years. I think we were as high on Bosh as we were on Carmelo Anthony for that reason. Now Bosh would be a great player, but in order to compete and win an championship in 2004 we would need Rasheed Wallace to push us over the edge. Like the Kershaw scenario I illustrated above, this is my fantasy world, so we're drafting Carmelo even though Bosh might be more likely, because that means we would probably still go for Rasheed to fill in that gap at the four. So this becomes our starting lineup:
1) Chauncey Billups
2) Rip Hamilton
3) Carmelo Anthony/Tayshaun Prince
4) Rasheed Wallace
5) Ben Wallace
With either Anthony or Prince coming off the bench... Prince more likely is the starter in 2004, since Larry Brown hates rookies, but afterwards I see Prince taking on a Bad Boys era Dennis Rodman-esque role off the bench as a super sixth man, with Antonio McDyess as the seventh man being our third big. Having Carmelo would improve our depth a ton; our starting five played by far the most minutes for our six year run, so bringing Tayshaun off the bench would be huge as far as resting players goes. We'd still be short on guard depth, but that's OK. I think with Anthony (and Rasheed) we'd beat the Spurs in the 2005 Finals. We came up short in the 2006, 2007*, and 2008* Eastern Conference Finals to the Heat, Cavaliers, and Celtics, respectively; in at least one of those series we'd win again. In my head we could have won all three, and I stick with that here; however, we'll say that Detroit just beats Cleveland in 2007 - that was the closest series I thought. That would give us a rematch against the Spurs, which I think the Spurs would win given how they eviscerated Cleveland in that Finals.
* - I am assuming that Ben Wallace still leaves for Chicago in the 2006 offseason, unfortunately. We'd be even less inclined to pay him with Carmelo. Since this is before small-ball became so big, I doubt Flip would make Carmelo Anthony the starting four and Tayshaun the starting three, so McDyess goes in the starting lineup instead and Tayshaun remains a super-sub. I'm going to assume Prince keeps getting enough minutes and is satisfied enough with his role and success in Detroit that he stays past his rookie contract, although that's a 50/50 venture.
The question then becomes does Dumars trade Chauncey Billups (and McDyess) for Allen Iverson like he did in the beginning of the 2008 season. I think he doesn't if we win a second title in 2005 and reach a third in 2007. Chauncey was the most revered athlete in Detroit during the time (and speaking for many Detroit sports fans I think he's still loved and adored by our fans), and I feel like that extra bit of success ensures he's a lifer - Dumars was very conflicted about moving him IOTL. Plus we don't have Stuckey, since we got him for Darko Milicic basically, so that gets rid of that incentive. In 2009 we're probably the number four seed, and end up getting beaten by LeBron's Cavaliers in the semifinals, so the six year eastern conference finals streak would still be broken at six. I see that being a catalyst for Dumars to want to truly build around Carmelo Anthony and make him the true face of the franchise. Summer of 2009 we begin the rebuild, with Sheed being a free agent and probably leaving town. Dumars by this time would obviously want to build around Anthony; however, I don't think he'd blow the team up to do so. At some point he's probably made a deal to extend Anthony - probably after the 2007 Finals - to give us a little more time to build a true contender around him. So for the 2009-10 season we'd go small-ball with a lineup like this:
1) Chauncey Billups
2) Richard Hamilton
3) Tayshaun Prince
4) Carmelo Anthony
5) Ben Wallace
Bench: Arron Afflalo, Jason Maxiell, Kwame Brown, Charlie Villanueva
Ben Wallace returns to Detroit like he did IOTL in the summer of 2009 for dirt cheap. Without Stuckey, Arron Afflalo would be far more important as guard depth for us. That means he gets more minutes, and he shows more of his potential, so Dumars doesn't trade him. We don't extend Hamilton, having Afflalo as his replacement in hand. Unfortunately we probably pass on keeping Amir Johnson since he would have gotten even fewer minutes in this scenario and we'd want Charlie V (*gags*). In that draft we'd be around the 23-24 range probably, and would be gunning for a backup point guard or a center - given how that range turned out in real life, we'd probably go with Byron Mullens... who isn't very good. 2009-10 Ben Wallace and any year Kwame Brown aren't very good centers for a small-ball team, so this team still probably isn't that good, although there's potential on the bench. I'm going to guess that this team would be good enough to be about the fifth seed, that ends up getting beaten by Boston in the first round.
2010-11 would bring even more transition, and Dumars would probably have to start contending with Carmelo rumors. Rip is replaced with Afflalo, and we probably look to spend Rip's money on a quality center. The good news is that we would have Carmelo, so that makes Detroit much more interesting for some of the free agents. We probably wouldn't have enough money for one of the big three with Chauncey and Carmelo on the payroll, but we would have enough money to offer a decent sized contract. The problem is there weren't that many great centers available at the time. In the 2010 draft we picked Greg Monroe, who would be perfect, but with Carmelo we'd be too good to end up with him. The problem is that (since I'm sticking with the contracts Carmelo and Chauncey got IOTL) Chauncey and Carmelo's contracts end at the same time (after 2011-12), so the Pistons don't have as much room as they could. We'd probably still consider moving Tayshaun for a starting caliber four or five. Maybe we trade Tayshaun to Boston for Kendrick Perkins, instead of Perkins going to the Thunder? They traded for him and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green, after all; Tayshaun with slightly less value is probably worth Perkins to Boston. We'll say that happens. Then we have money for a four. Luis Scola feels like a guy Dumars might gun for, but he's a restricted free agent. I think we strike out. Since we signed Tracy McGrady that year we'll pick him up ITTL too.
In the 2010 draft we have around the #18 pick, which was used on Eric Bledsoe IOTL, and will here too since we need a PGOTF behind Chauncey. (I'm drooling at that btw)
So the 2010-11 Piston starting five:
1) Chauncey Billups
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Jonas Jerebko
5) Kendrick Perkins
Bench: Eric Bledsoe, Jason Maxiell, Ben Wallace, Charlie Villanueva, Tracy McGrady
This team really isn't all that good either, probably around the fifth seed in the east again and another first round exit, this time to the Magic. The future backcourt of Bledsoe and Afflalo, however, is promising.
The fifth seed in the east would give us the 18th or so pick in the draft, and I would bet we'd be looking for a 4 or a 5. That means either Donatas Motiejunas or Kenneth Faried. I'm not sure which route he'd go. Dumars loves athletes and projectability, so Faried might be the pick, but we need size, so Motiejunas might be the pick too. Honestly he probably goes Faried over Motiejunas - which I'm not doing so much because of retrospect but because Faried is a phenomenal athlete and Dumars LOVES athletes. We also pick up Kyle Singler in this draft, assuming we still do the Carlos Delfino trade in 2007 (which we should). Anyways, that helps the look of the lineup quite a bit, although it might be too late to convince Carmelo to stay in Detroit. Here's the 2011-12 starting lineup:
1) Chauncey Billups
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Kenneth Faried
5) Kendrick Perkins
Bench: Eric Bledsoe, Charlie Villanueva, Jonas Jerebko, Kyle Singler, Jason Maxiell
Ironic how nearly all of these guys are or were once Nuggets, right? Honestly it's accidental, but still funny.
Anyways, though Chauncey is starting to feel his age at this point, this team should be a fair amount better than the previous year. Bledsoe would fill in for Chauncey a lot more and would grow quite a bit; Afflalo is a solid second option; and Perkins is a poor man's Ben Wallace. Faried would flash a lot of potential, and Singler is great off the bench. The problem is that the east is better, so we're probably the sixth seed or so, and see another first round playoff exit. This is where things get serious: Carmelo would be wanting to win another title and/or go to a bigger market, just by the time we've gotten the young pieces to maybe do that again anyways. We would have a TON of cap space though. I think what happens is that we offer him the max with an early termination clause and he decides to stick around, seeing that there is talent around him. Chauncey takes a major pay cut to be a backup. We'd want to trade Charlie V but there aren't many options for him. 2012 draft we'd be around the 19 spot or so and I think would want some depth at the guard and center positions... for guards, Evan Fournier, who was drafted by Denver of all teams, is the most likely option; for centers, either we go undersized and consider the falling Jared Sullinger a center, or we go Fab Melo. Fab Melo, unfortunately, is more likely - got to pick busts as well as diamonds I suppose.
2012-13 Pistons:
1) Eric Bledsoe
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Kenneth Faried
5) Kendrick Perkins
Bench: Chauncey Billups, Kyle Singler, Jonas Jerebko, Charlie Villanueva, Fab Melo
This team, frankly, is good enough to be the number two team in the east behind Miami - they should be about as good as that Knick team was, anyways. We should beat up whoever the seventh seed is (Boston?). The series with Indiana would be very difficult though; that would be a real test. We'll say it's a seven game series that, unfortunately, goes to Indiana.
In the 2013 draft if we draft where New York did, and are looking for guard depth since we passed in 2012, we probably take Tim Hardaway Jr., which would be a great guy to put behind Afflalo. Still not much free agent room, so the team wouldn't change much for 2013-14:
1) Eric Bledsoe
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Kenneth Faried
5) Kendrick Perkins
Bench: Chauncey Billups, Kyle Singler, Jonas Jereko, Tim Hardaway Jr., Fab Melo
Bledsoe's injury really hurts this team, since Chauncey can't handle starting anymore... Will Bynum, assuming we still picked him up, would be thrown into the starting role I guess. Because of that this is probably the fifth seed or so, which means we'd play Chicago. Like Washington, I think we beat Chicago handily since we'd be healthy again. Indiana was obviously in their major slump still in the second round, and Washington might have beaten them had they been experienced, which this Piston team has gobs of. So Detroit beats Miami and returns to the conference finals for the first time since 2008. However, we wouldn't get past Miami. Chauncey retires a Piston and heads to the Front Office to work under Dumars, who definitely would still be GM. Would the coach be Michael Curry still? Or Lawrence Frank? I'm not sure....
I didn't mean for this post to get so long, just once I started thinking about one thing that led to another and so on. I think it's an interesting scenario; it'd be awesome for Detroit to keep up such a long playoffs streak, win a second title and go to a third Finals (or more, I was being conservative I think), and I would love to have Eric Bledsoe and Kenneth Faried on the team (not to mention Carmelo from the start!), but at the same time I do love Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe and think those two could lead us to a great future. Solving the center position is the biggest problem; there haven't been many great prospects in the mid-first round range in recent years, and it's hard to think of good centers that would be traded for a Tayshaun Prince that spent most of his career as the sixth man on a contending team. Anyways, any thoughts on this Pistons scenario?
What we really needed back then was a power forward; this was before the Rasheed Wallace trade, and we figured that Darko could turn into a Dirk Nowitzki-esque player for us in a couple years. I think we were as high on Bosh as we were on Carmelo Anthony for that reason. Now Bosh would be a great player, but in order to compete and win an championship in 2004 we would need Rasheed Wallace to push us over the edge. Like the Kershaw scenario I illustrated above, this is my fantasy world, so we're drafting Carmelo even though Bosh might be more likely, because that means we would probably still go for Rasheed to fill in that gap at the four. So this becomes our starting lineup:
1) Chauncey Billups
2) Rip Hamilton
3) Carmelo Anthony/Tayshaun Prince
4) Rasheed Wallace
5) Ben Wallace
With either Anthony or Prince coming off the bench... Prince more likely is the starter in 2004, since Larry Brown hates rookies, but afterwards I see Prince taking on a Bad Boys era Dennis Rodman-esque role off the bench as a super sixth man, with Antonio McDyess as the seventh man being our third big. Having Carmelo would improve our depth a ton; our starting five played by far the most minutes for our six year run, so bringing Tayshaun off the bench would be huge as far as resting players goes. We'd still be short on guard depth, but that's OK. I think with Anthony (and Rasheed) we'd beat the Spurs in the 2005 Finals. We came up short in the 2006, 2007*, and 2008* Eastern Conference Finals to the Heat, Cavaliers, and Celtics, respectively; in at least one of those series we'd win again. In my head we could have won all three, and I stick with that here; however, we'll say that Detroit just beats Cleveland in 2007 - that was the closest series I thought. That would give us a rematch against the Spurs, which I think the Spurs would win given how they eviscerated Cleveland in that Finals.
* - I am assuming that Ben Wallace still leaves for Chicago in the 2006 offseason, unfortunately. We'd be even less inclined to pay him with Carmelo. Since this is before small-ball became so big, I doubt Flip would make Carmelo Anthony the starting four and Tayshaun the starting three, so McDyess goes in the starting lineup instead and Tayshaun remains a super-sub. I'm going to assume Prince keeps getting enough minutes and is satisfied enough with his role and success in Detroit that he stays past his rookie contract, although that's a 50/50 venture.
The question then becomes does Dumars trade Chauncey Billups (and McDyess) for Allen Iverson like he did in the beginning of the 2008 season. I think he doesn't if we win a second title in 2005 and reach a third in 2007. Chauncey was the most revered athlete in Detroit during the time (and speaking for many Detroit sports fans I think he's still loved and adored by our fans), and I feel like that extra bit of success ensures he's a lifer - Dumars was very conflicted about moving him IOTL. Plus we don't have Stuckey, since we got him for Darko Milicic basically, so that gets rid of that incentive. In 2009 we're probably the number four seed, and end up getting beaten by LeBron's Cavaliers in the semifinals, so the six year eastern conference finals streak would still be broken at six. I see that being a catalyst for Dumars to want to truly build around Carmelo Anthony and make him the true face of the franchise. Summer of 2009 we begin the rebuild, with Sheed being a free agent and probably leaving town. Dumars by this time would obviously want to build around Anthony; however, I don't think he'd blow the team up to do so. At some point he's probably made a deal to extend Anthony - probably after the 2007 Finals - to give us a little more time to build a true contender around him. So for the 2009-10 season we'd go small-ball with a lineup like this:
1) Chauncey Billups
2) Richard Hamilton
3) Tayshaun Prince
4) Carmelo Anthony
5) Ben Wallace
Bench: Arron Afflalo, Jason Maxiell, Kwame Brown, Charlie Villanueva
Ben Wallace returns to Detroit like he did IOTL in the summer of 2009 for dirt cheap. Without Stuckey, Arron Afflalo would be far more important as guard depth for us. That means he gets more minutes, and he shows more of his potential, so Dumars doesn't trade him. We don't extend Hamilton, having Afflalo as his replacement in hand. Unfortunately we probably pass on keeping Amir Johnson since he would have gotten even fewer minutes in this scenario and we'd want Charlie V (*gags*). In that draft we'd be around the 23-24 range probably, and would be gunning for a backup point guard or a center - given how that range turned out in real life, we'd probably go with Byron Mullens... who isn't very good. 2009-10 Ben Wallace and any year Kwame Brown aren't very good centers for a small-ball team, so this team still probably isn't that good, although there's potential on the bench. I'm going to guess that this team would be good enough to be about the fifth seed, that ends up getting beaten by Boston in the first round.
2010-11 would bring even more transition, and Dumars would probably have to start contending with Carmelo rumors. Rip is replaced with Afflalo, and we probably look to spend Rip's money on a quality center. The good news is that we would have Carmelo, so that makes Detroit much more interesting for some of the free agents. We probably wouldn't have enough money for one of the big three with Chauncey and Carmelo on the payroll, but we would have enough money to offer a decent sized contract. The problem is there weren't that many great centers available at the time. In the 2010 draft we picked Greg Monroe, who would be perfect, but with Carmelo we'd be too good to end up with him. The problem is that (since I'm sticking with the contracts Carmelo and Chauncey got IOTL) Chauncey and Carmelo's contracts end at the same time (after 2011-12), so the Pistons don't have as much room as they could. We'd probably still consider moving Tayshaun for a starting caliber four or five. Maybe we trade Tayshaun to Boston for Kendrick Perkins, instead of Perkins going to the Thunder? They traded for him and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green, after all; Tayshaun with slightly less value is probably worth Perkins to Boston. We'll say that happens. Then we have money for a four. Luis Scola feels like a guy Dumars might gun for, but he's a restricted free agent. I think we strike out. Since we signed Tracy McGrady that year we'll pick him up ITTL too.
In the 2010 draft we have around the #18 pick, which was used on Eric Bledsoe IOTL, and will here too since we need a PGOTF behind Chauncey. (I'm drooling at that btw
)So the 2010-11 Piston starting five:
1) Chauncey Billups
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Jonas Jerebko
5) Kendrick Perkins
Bench: Eric Bledsoe, Jason Maxiell, Ben Wallace, Charlie Villanueva, Tracy McGrady
This team really isn't all that good either, probably around the fifth seed in the east again and another first round exit, this time to the Magic. The future backcourt of Bledsoe and Afflalo, however, is promising.
The fifth seed in the east would give us the 18th or so pick in the draft, and I would bet we'd be looking for a 4 or a 5. That means either Donatas Motiejunas or Kenneth Faried. I'm not sure which route he'd go. Dumars loves athletes and projectability, so Faried might be the pick, but we need size, so Motiejunas might be the pick too. Honestly he probably goes Faried over Motiejunas - which I'm not doing so much because of retrospect but because Faried is a phenomenal athlete and Dumars LOVES athletes. We also pick up Kyle Singler in this draft, assuming we still do the Carlos Delfino trade in 2007 (which we should). Anyways, that helps the look of the lineup quite a bit, although it might be too late to convince Carmelo to stay in Detroit. Here's the 2011-12 starting lineup:
1) Chauncey Billups
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Kenneth Faried
5) Kendrick Perkins
Bench: Eric Bledsoe, Charlie Villanueva, Jonas Jerebko, Kyle Singler, Jason Maxiell
Ironic how nearly all of these guys are or were once Nuggets, right? Honestly it's accidental, but still funny.
Anyways, though Chauncey is starting to feel his age at this point, this team should be a fair amount better than the previous year. Bledsoe would fill in for Chauncey a lot more and would grow quite a bit; Afflalo is a solid second option; and Perkins is a poor man's Ben Wallace. Faried would flash a lot of potential, and Singler is great off the bench. The problem is that the east is better, so we're probably the sixth seed or so, and see another first round playoff exit. This is where things get serious: Carmelo would be wanting to win another title and/or go to a bigger market, just by the time we've gotten the young pieces to maybe do that again anyways. We would have a TON of cap space though. I think what happens is that we offer him the max with an early termination clause and he decides to stick around, seeing that there is talent around him. Chauncey takes a major pay cut to be a backup. We'd want to trade Charlie V but there aren't many options for him. 2012 draft we'd be around the 19 spot or so and I think would want some depth at the guard and center positions... for guards, Evan Fournier, who was drafted by Denver of all teams, is the most likely option; for centers, either we go undersized and consider the falling Jared Sullinger a center, or we go Fab Melo. Fab Melo, unfortunately, is more likely - got to pick busts as well as diamonds I suppose.
2012-13 Pistons:
1) Eric Bledsoe
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Kenneth Faried
5) Kendrick Perkins
Bench: Chauncey Billups, Kyle Singler, Jonas Jerebko, Charlie Villanueva, Fab Melo
This team, frankly, is good enough to be the number two team in the east behind Miami - they should be about as good as that Knick team was, anyways. We should beat up whoever the seventh seed is (Boston?). The series with Indiana would be very difficult though; that would be a real test. We'll say it's a seven game series that, unfortunately, goes to Indiana.
In the 2013 draft if we draft where New York did, and are looking for guard depth since we passed in 2012, we probably take Tim Hardaway Jr., which would be a great guy to put behind Afflalo. Still not much free agent room, so the team wouldn't change much for 2013-14:
1) Eric Bledsoe
2) Arron Afflalo
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Kenneth Faried
5) Kendrick Perkins
Bench: Chauncey Billups, Kyle Singler, Jonas Jereko, Tim Hardaway Jr., Fab Melo
Bledsoe's injury really hurts this team, since Chauncey can't handle starting anymore... Will Bynum, assuming we still picked him up, would be thrown into the starting role I guess. Because of that this is probably the fifth seed or so, which means we'd play Chicago. Like Washington, I think we beat Chicago handily since we'd be healthy again. Indiana was obviously in their major slump still in the second round, and Washington might have beaten them had they been experienced, which this Piston team has gobs of. So Detroit beats Miami and returns to the conference finals for the first time since 2008. However, we wouldn't get past Miami. Chauncey retires a Piston and heads to the Front Office to work under Dumars, who definitely would still be GM. Would the coach be Michael Curry still? Or Lawrence Frank? I'm not sure....
I didn't mean for this post to get so long, just once I started thinking about one thing that led to another and so on. I think it's an interesting scenario; it'd be awesome for Detroit to keep up such a long playoffs streak, win a second title and go to a third Finals (or more, I was being conservative I think), and I would love to have Eric Bledsoe and Kenneth Faried on the team (not to mention Carmelo from the start!), but at the same time I do love Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe and think those two could lead us to a great future. Solving the center position is the biggest problem; there haven't been many great prospects in the mid-first round range in recent years, and it's hard to think of good centers that would be traded for a Tayshaun Prince that spent most of his career as the sixth man on a contending team. Anyways, any thoughts on this Pistons scenario?
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Well I see no reason why they shouldn't win the title in this universe with Rasheed. That said, you are right that the Larry Brown/Carmelo relationship is pivotal. Larry never gave Darko a chance to develop... Carmelo was much more NBA-ready but he probably won't get as many minutes as he might want off the bat. And there might be some tensions. I think that the overall culture in Detroit at the time though would make things work out - it was a very veteran dominated team, and Carmelo from what I remember was very excited about the idea of playing for a contender off the bat. Chauncey was very, very good at coaxing people into playing for the team; he was the perfect team leader. I think he'd accept his role in the first year. And eventually it'd be obvious that he should be starting over Tayshaun Prince, so he'd get the starting minutes that might be the source of conflict anyways. Carmelo as far as a personality doesn't seem that different from Iverson to me; though Iverson and Larry Brown had spats AI said afterwards that he was the best coach he ever had and so on. I think it works out. At least for the two years LB sticks around (winning back-to-back titles as I predicted in my scenario keeps any coach but Larry Brown around, he loves jumping to new challenges).
I still see the Lakers winning the championship. Shaq was too dominant. Although Kobe vs McGrady would have been a beauiful thing too see, along with the TD vs Shaq rivalry. But nothing could stop him, although I don't see this series going for less than 6 games I think the Lakers would take it.
Back to the first post, cause... well idk it's interesting.
10. MJ finishes his career with 7 championships. Loses in 94 in the conference finals, either to the 1st seed Sonics or 3rd seed Rockets. MJ takes the summer off to re-find himself after his fathers death. They return to take a league best record, then win in the finals. They acquire Rodman the following season and continue to win 4 championships in a row.
If Jordan continues to play through his second retirement, they would attempt to take one last shot at the championship. Including re-signing Rodman and Pippen (they almost did in OTL). They would win the eastern conference finals but be squashed in 5 games against the Spurs.
10. MJ finishes his career with 7 championships. Loses in 94 in the conference finals, either to the 1st seed Sonics or 3rd seed Rockets. MJ takes the summer off to re-find himself after his fathers death. They return to take a league best record, then win in the finals. They acquire Rodman the following season and continue to win 4 championships in a row.
If Jordan continues to play through his second retirement, they would attempt to take one last shot at the championship. Including re-signing Rodman and Pippen (they almost did in OTL). They would win the eastern conference finals but be squashed in 5 games against the Spurs.
The Lakers were dominant for most of the 2001 postseason, but you have to remember that they played an imploding Blazer team in Round 1, the Pre-Bibby Kings in Round 2, and after beating the Spurs in the WCF (they don't get there without Duncan), they beat a weak Sixer team in a less than dominant fashion for their second title in a row.
I like Orlando's chances with Duncan and T-Mac, especially if they have the home court (I can see them winning 60 that year, which would have been enough), and if the coach makes the right moves (one of them knowing how to use those three big men, or 18 fouls a game, the right way).