Via some of the 957,000 MILES of field telephone cable supplied via Lend-Lease
Soviet artillery question - was Lend Lease essential for Soviet artillery effectiveness?
- Thread starter Trevayne
- Start date
Was Stalin (1) that explicit; and (2) trustworthy?
Sorry, but I cannot see how ia nation that creates a pact with the Nazis and sells them vital goods is anything like "equally to blame" as countries that give the Nazis ultimatims.
While I don't think the citizens of the USSR deserved any suffering, how can anyone compare a nation that gives the Nazis a treaty of non-aggression to ones that give the Nazis ultimatims? One was an agreement not to attack the Nazis and not to support anyone who did try to get rid of them; the other was an agreement that, while very bad in many ways, was intended to allow people to vote for the government they wanted.
Agreeing not to attack Nazis and to not support anyone who did them is completely different to saying that you won't go to war for an unrelated country and will rely on the democratic wishes of the people.
(1). Yes. There were direct proposals about joint military action against Nazi Germany:
Considerations of the Soviet side in negotiations with the military missions of Great Britain and France.
August 4, 1939
In negotiations with England and France, several OPTIONS may arise when an armed intervention by our forces is possible.
Option I is when the attack of the aggressors will be directly against FRANCE and ENGLAND.
In this case, France and England should immediately deploy most of their armed forces on the eastern borders of France and Belgium, and from the 16th day of mobilization begin decisive action against primary of the aggressors.
The primary adversary is considered the chief of the aggressors, against which the main forces of France and England should be directed.
Actions against a minor of aggressors should also be of a secondary nature. The theory of first defeating a weak adversary - a secondary aggressor - is not shared by us. The defeat of the primary of the aggressors will remove the secondary of the aggressors out of the war, while initial focus on the secondary aggressor can lead to a decisive attack by the primary aggressor on Paris and the capture of Belgium and Holland, which creates a crisis in the western theater of operations from the very first days of the war giving superiority to the primary aggressor.
Based on this situation, France and England should deploy and put forward at least the following force against the primary aggressor by the 15th day of mobilization on the eastern borders of France and Belgium:
80 infantry divisions
14,000 - 14,500 medium and heavy guns
3500 - 4000 tanks
5000 - 5500 aircraft.
With the force of up to 10 infantry divsions remaining on the Maginot line from Belfort to Metz, France, England and Belgium should
with 70 infantry divisions
13,000 medium and heavy guns
3500 tanks
5000 aircraft
to lead a decisive offensive north of Metz and from Belgium against the Ruhr and Cologne industrial region in the general direction of Magdeburg.
The air forces of France and England must strike at the most important industrial areas of the primary aggressor in the west, at the bases of its navy, along the railways, freeways, as well as at the capital and other major administrative centers of the primary aggressor.
The actions of the combined Anglo-French fleet should pursue following goals: 1) to close the English Channel and break through by strong squadron into the Baltic Sea to act against the fleet of the primary aggressor in the Baltic and against its shores; 2) to obtain consent from the Baltic countries for the temporary occupation by the Anglo-French fleet of the Åland Islands, the Moonsund Archipelago with its islands [Crueldwarf: there is a funny detail in the original document: words ‘by the Anglo-French fleet’ are inserted into the sentence in Stalin’s handwriting], the ports of the Gange, Pernov, Gapsal, Gainash and Libava {{* Hanko, Pärnu, Haapsalu, Ainazi, Liepaja.}} for the purposes safeguarding the neutrality and independence of these countries from attacks by Germany; 3) to interdict the supply of ore and other raw materials from Sweden through the Baltic; 4) blockade of the coast of the primary aggressor in the North Sea; 5) dominance in the Mediterranean Sea and the closure of the Suez Canal and the Dardanelles; 6) cruising operations off the coast of Norway, Finland, outside their territorial waters, Murmansk and Arkhangelsk against submarines and cruisers of the aggressor fleet off these coasts.
Poland must obligatory participate in the war by virtue of its agreement with England and France and to strike against East Prussia and Pomerania by forces of at least 40 infantry divisions. Poland must commit itself to let our ground forces north of Minsk through the Vilensky corridor and, if possible, through Lithuania to the borders of East Prussia. It is necessary to ensure that Lithuania renders assistance to the bloc of peace-loving powers.
Our assistance to France and England can be expressed in the joint action of our land, air forces, the Baltic and Northern fleets against the primary of the aggressors.
In this case, we would have directed against East Prussia, north of Minsk, 70% of the infantry forces allocated by England and France against the primary of the aggressors of the, as well as the cavalry, in particular:
56 infantry divisions
6 cavalry divisions
8500-9000 medium and heavy guns
3300 tanks
3000 aircraft
and a total of 2,053,000 people.
Our air forces undertake operations against East Prussia and the primary aggressor’s concentrated air and ground forces, against its fleet and bases in the Baltic, and operate in coordination with our ground units.
Our Northern Navy is cruising off the coast of Finland and Norway outside their territorial waters, together with the Anglo-French squadrons.
As for our Baltic Fleet, in the case of a favorable resolution of the issue, it will be based together with the combined fleet of France and England on the Gange, Åland and Moonsund archipelagos, Pernov, Gapsal, Gainash and Libava in order to protect the independence of the Baltic countries.
Under these conditions, the Baltic Fleet can develop its cruising operations, the actions of submarines and the laying of mines off the coast of East Prussia, Danzig and Pomerania. Baltic Fleet submarines impede the supply of industrial raw materials from Sweden to the primary aggressor.
The command of all our armed forces remains with us, and the coordination of military operations with England and France is achieved by a special agreement during the war.
Our forces operate compactly and do not allocate any units to other armies.
Option II of the possible outbreak of hostilities is when POLAND is the object of the attack.
If France and England also declare war on the aggressors by virtue of their treaty with Poland and immediately oppose them, the USSR will have to oppose the aggressors by virtue of its treaty with England and France.
Poland can be attacked not only by the main aggressor, but, in all likelihood, Hungary will take part in the war against Poland.
It must be assumed that in this case, Romania will enter the war on the side of Poland. True, her assistance will be limited, since Romania itself will be constrained by Bulgaria and Hungary, but still Romania should be obliged to put up at least
20 infantry divisions
3 cavalry divisions
2276 medium and heavy guns
240 tanks
440 aircraft.
France and England must deploy with their armed forces, as indicated in Option I, and deliver the main blow against the primary of the aggressors.
The development of operations of the armed forces of France and England should be carried out, as indicated in Option I.
Our participation in the war can only happen when France and England agree with Poland and, if possible, also with Lithuania on the passage of our troops north of Minsk through the Vilnius corridor and on providing our Baltic Fleet with a joint base with the combined Anglo-French fleet, as indicated in option I.
In this case, we allocate forces, as indicated in option I, and direct them against East Prussia.
France and England must require Poland to deploy at least 40 infantry divisions with the appropriate artillery against East Prussia and Pomerania. At the same time, Poland is obliged to ensure the maneuver of our troops in the north-east of Poland by providing us with railways and rolling stock for the transportation of military supplies and food.
The simultaneous invasion of aggressors in southern Poland (Galicia) by Slovakia and Hungary will require us to deploy additional forces on the borders with Poland and Romania, but in conjunction with the forces allocated for action against East Prussia it will be equal toh the forces deployed by England and France against the primary aggressor, i.e., 80 infantry divisions, 12 cavalry divisions, 9,500-10,000 medium and heavy guns, 3,500-4,000 tanks, 3,000-3,500 aircraft.
The command of our armed forces remains with us. Coordination of hostilities with England and France is achieved by special agreement during the war.
Option III for the beginning of hostilities is when Hungary, Bulgaria, with the help of the primary aggressor, attack ROMANIA.
If England and France declare war on the aggressors and deploy forces against the main aggressor by the 15th day of mobilization, as indicated in option I:
80 infantry divisions
14,000 - 14,500 medium and heavy guns
3500 - 4000 tanks
5000 - 5500 aircraft
and launch a decisive attack on the 16th day of mobilization against the primary aggressor, they can turn to us for military cooperation.
Our proposals of France and England in this version should be summarized: 1) in the mandatory Polish participation in the war; 2) in the passage of our forces, as indicated in option I, through the Vilnius corridor and Lithuania, as well as in the joint deployment of the Baltic Fleet with the British and English in the eastern part of the Baltic, as indicated in option I; 3) in Poland’s obligation to deploy and forward to the front 40 infantry divisions against East Prussia and Pomerania; and 4) in Poland’s obligation to allow passage of our troops through Galicia south of Lvov.
In this case, we also set 70% of the infantry forces sent by France and England against the main aggressor, not counting 12 cavalry divisions, namely:
56 infantry divisions
12 cavalry divisions
8500 - 9000 medium and heavy guns
3300 tanks
3000 aircraft
2,075,000 people in total.
Forces deployed to north of Minsk for action against East Prussia:
26 rifle divisions
6 cavalry divisions
4000 medium and heavy guns
1300 tanks
1,500 aircraft
and a total of 926,000 people.
For actions south of Polesie, for direct support to Romania (France and England must achieve the passage of our troops through the Romanian territory and the southern part of Galicia), we will be sent:
30 rifle divisions
6 cavalry divisions
5000 medium and heavy guns
2000 tanks
1,500 aircraft
a total of 1,149,000 people.
These our forces are deployed on the border of the USSR with Romania and in the southern part of Galicia and operate south of the Carpathians, receiving an independent sector of the front.
The command of our troops remains with us. In this option, the actions of our Northern and Baltic fleets are carried out, as set out in option I, therefore, the tasks for the combined Anglo-French fleet remain the same as indicated in option I.
Bulgaria may be involved in the attack on Romania, so France and England must commit themselves to making Turkey and Greece to join the war.
If both of these states take part in the war, then our Black Sea Fleet, having barred the mouth of the Danube from the inflitration of aggressor submarines into the Black Sea and blocking Varna (the Bulgarian military port), together with the Turkish fleet carry out cruising and submarine operations in the eastern Mediterranean. However, under all circumstances, the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus should be firmly closed from the penetration of surface squadrons of opponents and their submarines into the Marmara and Black Seas.
IV. A possible variant of the outbreak of hostilities, when aggression will be directed against Turkey, and, perhaps, in this case, Bulgaria will join the war on the side of the aggressors.
France and England, by virtue of an agreement with Turkey, declare war on the aggressors.
If France and England turn to us for military cooperation, this cooperation can be provided if:
1) Poland’s participate in the war against the primary aggressor and the passage of our troops is allowed through the Vilnius corridor and by agreement with Lithuania through its territory for actions against East Prussia;
2) joint operations of combined Anglo-French fleet and our Baltic Fleet in the eastern part of the Baltic, as indicated in option I; 3) the participation of Romania in the war and the passage of our troops through Romania for operations in the south of Romania.
In this case, we expose and deploy forces as indicated in option III.
The tasks of our Black Sea Fleet will be the same as indicated in the previous version (III).
The actions of the armies of France and England should amount to an attack against the primary aggressor as the main target, as set out in Option I.
The actions of the combined Anglo-French fleet should be amended against what is stated in Option I - to act towards decisive defeat of the combined fleet of aggressors in the Mediterranean Sea, especially in its eastern part.
V. A possible variant of military operations is when the aggression of the primary aggressor is directed against the USSR through the territories of Finland, Estonia and Latvia,
In this case, France and England, according to the agreement, must immediately enter the war with the aggressors. Poland, bound by a treaty with England and France and having our guarantee, must act on option I.
Our demand for the deployment of 40 Polish infantry divisions against East Prussia and in Poznan remains.
If in the Option I we alone deployed 70% of the armed forces that England and France directed against the primary aggressor attacking one of these powers, then in the event of the primary aggressor attacking us, we must demand from France and England to deploy forces on the 15th day of mobilization equal to 70% of what we deploy against the primary aggressor according to this option.
We can deploy 120 infantry divisions. Therefore, we must demand the deployment of the following English and French forces against the primary aggressor north of Belfort and to Belgium:
84 infantry divisions
13,000 to 13,500 medium and heavy guns
from 3,000 to 3,500 tanks
from 5,000 to 5,500 aircraft.
From the 16th day of mobilization, these forces must launch a decisive attack against the primary aggressor north of Metz and from Belgium with the general direction of the main attack toward Magdeburg.
The air forces of France and England must inflict a powerful blow on the industrial areas of the primary aggressor, on the bases of his navy, on railways, highways, as well as on the capital and major administrative centers.
The actions of the Anglo-French Navy should occur according to option I.
The command of our armed forces remains with us. Coordination of the military action is achieved by special agreement during the war.
It is hard to imagine that the primary aggressor would send part of his forces against us through Romania. However, this option is not excluded, and therefore in this case, Poland, Turkey and Greece should be involved in providing assistance to Romania by England and France, and some of our troops are provided with a passage through Galicia and Romania.
The actions of our Black Sea Fleet should be coordinated with the actions of the Turkish Fleet, as set out in version IV.
When the primary aggressor attacks us, we must demand the deployment of the above forces by France, England and Belgium, their decisive offensive from the 16th day of mobilization against the primary aggressor and the most active Polish participation in the war, as well as the unhindered passage of our troops through the territory of the Vilnius corridor and Galicia with the provision of rolling stock.
The foregoing is a prerequisite for negotiations, during which the positions of France and England will be clarified in a sincere desire to conclude an agreement.
Signed by B. Shaposhnikov
August 4, 1939
In negotiations with England and France, several OPTIONS may arise when an armed intervention by our forces is possible.
Option I is when the attack of the aggressors will be directly against FRANCE and ENGLAND.
In this case, France and England should immediately deploy most of their armed forces on the eastern borders of France and Belgium, and from the 16th day of mobilization begin decisive action against primary of the aggressors.
The primary adversary is considered the chief of the aggressors, against which the main forces of France and England should be directed.
Actions against a minor of aggressors should also be of a secondary nature. The theory of first defeating a weak adversary - a secondary aggressor - is not shared by us. The defeat of the primary of the aggressors will remove the secondary of the aggressors out of the war, while initial focus on the secondary aggressor can lead to a decisive attack by the primary aggressor on Paris and the capture of Belgium and Holland, which creates a crisis in the western theater of operations from the very first days of the war giving superiority to the primary aggressor.
Based on this situation, France and England should deploy and put forward at least the following force against the primary aggressor by the 15th day of mobilization on the eastern borders of France and Belgium:
80 infantry divisions
14,000 - 14,500 medium and heavy guns
3500 - 4000 tanks
5000 - 5500 aircraft.
With the force of up to 10 infantry divsions remaining on the Maginot line from Belfort to Metz, France, England and Belgium should
with 70 infantry divisions
13,000 medium and heavy guns
3500 tanks
5000 aircraft
to lead a decisive offensive north of Metz and from Belgium against the Ruhr and Cologne industrial region in the general direction of Magdeburg.
The air forces of France and England must strike at the most important industrial areas of the primary aggressor in the west, at the bases of its navy, along the railways, freeways, as well as at the capital and other major administrative centers of the primary aggressor.
The actions of the combined Anglo-French fleet should pursue following goals: 1) to close the English Channel and break through by strong squadron into the Baltic Sea to act against the fleet of the primary aggressor in the Baltic and against its shores; 2) to obtain consent from the Baltic countries for the temporary occupation by the Anglo-French fleet of the Åland Islands, the Moonsund Archipelago with its islands [Crueldwarf: there is a funny detail in the original document: words ‘by the Anglo-French fleet’ are inserted into the sentence in Stalin’s handwriting], the ports of the Gange, Pernov, Gapsal, Gainash and Libava {{* Hanko, Pärnu, Haapsalu, Ainazi, Liepaja.}} for the purposes safeguarding the neutrality and independence of these countries from attacks by Germany; 3) to interdict the supply of ore and other raw materials from Sweden through the Baltic; 4) blockade of the coast of the primary aggressor in the North Sea; 5) dominance in the Mediterranean Sea and the closure of the Suez Canal and the Dardanelles; 6) cruising operations off the coast of Norway, Finland, outside their territorial waters, Murmansk and Arkhangelsk against submarines and cruisers of the aggressor fleet off these coasts.
Poland must obligatory participate in the war by virtue of its agreement with England and France and to strike against East Prussia and Pomerania by forces of at least 40 infantry divisions. Poland must commit itself to let our ground forces north of Minsk through the Vilensky corridor and, if possible, through Lithuania to the borders of East Prussia. It is necessary to ensure that Lithuania renders assistance to the bloc of peace-loving powers.
Our assistance to France and England can be expressed in the joint action of our land, air forces, the Baltic and Northern fleets against the primary of the aggressors.
In this case, we would have directed against East Prussia, north of Minsk, 70% of the infantry forces allocated by England and France against the primary of the aggressors of the, as well as the cavalry, in particular:
56 infantry divisions
6 cavalry divisions
8500-9000 medium and heavy guns
3300 tanks
3000 aircraft
and a total of 2,053,000 people.
Our air forces undertake operations against East Prussia and the primary aggressor’s concentrated air and ground forces, against its fleet and bases in the Baltic, and operate in coordination with our ground units.
Our Northern Navy is cruising off the coast of Finland and Norway outside their territorial waters, together with the Anglo-French squadrons.
As for our Baltic Fleet, in the case of a favorable resolution of the issue, it will be based together with the combined fleet of France and England on the Gange, Åland and Moonsund archipelagos, Pernov, Gapsal, Gainash and Libava in order to protect the independence of the Baltic countries.
Under these conditions, the Baltic Fleet can develop its cruising operations, the actions of submarines and the laying of mines off the coast of East Prussia, Danzig and Pomerania. Baltic Fleet submarines impede the supply of industrial raw materials from Sweden to the primary aggressor.
The command of all our armed forces remains with us, and the coordination of military operations with England and France is achieved by a special agreement during the war.
Our forces operate compactly and do not allocate any units to other armies.
Option II of the possible outbreak of hostilities is when POLAND is the object of the attack.
If France and England also declare war on the aggressors by virtue of their treaty with Poland and immediately oppose them, the USSR will have to oppose the aggressors by virtue of its treaty with England and France.
Poland can be attacked not only by the main aggressor, but, in all likelihood, Hungary will take part in the war against Poland.
It must be assumed that in this case, Romania will enter the war on the side of Poland. True, her assistance will be limited, since Romania itself will be constrained by Bulgaria and Hungary, but still Romania should be obliged to put up at least
20 infantry divisions
3 cavalry divisions
2276 medium and heavy guns
240 tanks
440 aircraft.
France and England must deploy with their armed forces, as indicated in Option I, and deliver the main blow against the primary of the aggressors.
The development of operations of the armed forces of France and England should be carried out, as indicated in Option I.
Our participation in the war can only happen when France and England agree with Poland and, if possible, also with Lithuania on the passage of our troops north of Minsk through the Vilnius corridor and on providing our Baltic Fleet with a joint base with the combined Anglo-French fleet, as indicated in option I.
In this case, we allocate forces, as indicated in option I, and direct them against East Prussia.
France and England must require Poland to deploy at least 40 infantry divisions with the appropriate artillery against East Prussia and Pomerania. At the same time, Poland is obliged to ensure the maneuver of our troops in the north-east of Poland by providing us with railways and rolling stock for the transportation of military supplies and food.
The simultaneous invasion of aggressors in southern Poland (Galicia) by Slovakia and Hungary will require us to deploy additional forces on the borders with Poland and Romania, but in conjunction with the forces allocated for action against East Prussia it will be equal toh the forces deployed by England and France against the primary aggressor, i.e., 80 infantry divisions, 12 cavalry divisions, 9,500-10,000 medium and heavy guns, 3,500-4,000 tanks, 3,000-3,500 aircraft.
The command of our armed forces remains with us. Coordination of hostilities with England and France is achieved by special agreement during the war.
Option III for the beginning of hostilities is when Hungary, Bulgaria, with the help of the primary aggressor, attack ROMANIA.
If England and France declare war on the aggressors and deploy forces against the main aggressor by the 15th day of mobilization, as indicated in option I:
80 infantry divisions
14,000 - 14,500 medium and heavy guns
3500 - 4000 tanks
5000 - 5500 aircraft
and launch a decisive attack on the 16th day of mobilization against the primary aggressor, they can turn to us for military cooperation.
Our proposals of France and England in this version should be summarized: 1) in the mandatory Polish participation in the war; 2) in the passage of our forces, as indicated in option I, through the Vilnius corridor and Lithuania, as well as in the joint deployment of the Baltic Fleet with the British and English in the eastern part of the Baltic, as indicated in option I; 3) in Poland’s obligation to deploy and forward to the front 40 infantry divisions against East Prussia and Pomerania; and 4) in Poland’s obligation to allow passage of our troops through Galicia south of Lvov.
In this case, we also set 70% of the infantry forces sent by France and England against the main aggressor, not counting 12 cavalry divisions, namely:
56 infantry divisions
12 cavalry divisions
8500 - 9000 medium and heavy guns
3300 tanks
3000 aircraft
2,075,000 people in total.
Forces deployed to north of Minsk for action against East Prussia:
26 rifle divisions
6 cavalry divisions
4000 medium and heavy guns
1300 tanks
1,500 aircraft
and a total of 926,000 people.
For actions south of Polesie, for direct support to Romania (France and England must achieve the passage of our troops through the Romanian territory and the southern part of Galicia), we will be sent:
30 rifle divisions
6 cavalry divisions
5000 medium and heavy guns
2000 tanks
1,500 aircraft
a total of 1,149,000 people.
These our forces are deployed on the border of the USSR with Romania and in the southern part of Galicia and operate south of the Carpathians, receiving an independent sector of the front.
The command of our troops remains with us. In this option, the actions of our Northern and Baltic fleets are carried out, as set out in option I, therefore, the tasks for the combined Anglo-French fleet remain the same as indicated in option I.
Bulgaria may be involved in the attack on Romania, so France and England must commit themselves to making Turkey and Greece to join the war.
If both of these states take part in the war, then our Black Sea Fleet, having barred the mouth of the Danube from the inflitration of aggressor submarines into the Black Sea and blocking Varna (the Bulgarian military port), together with the Turkish fleet carry out cruising and submarine operations in the eastern Mediterranean. However, under all circumstances, the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus should be firmly closed from the penetration of surface squadrons of opponents and their submarines into the Marmara and Black Seas.
IV. A possible variant of the outbreak of hostilities, when aggression will be directed against Turkey, and, perhaps, in this case, Bulgaria will join the war on the side of the aggressors.
France and England, by virtue of an agreement with Turkey, declare war on the aggressors.
If France and England turn to us for military cooperation, this cooperation can be provided if:
1) Poland’s participate in the war against the primary aggressor and the passage of our troops is allowed through the Vilnius corridor and by agreement with Lithuania through its territory for actions against East Prussia;
2) joint operations of combined Anglo-French fleet and our Baltic Fleet in the eastern part of the Baltic, as indicated in option I; 3) the participation of Romania in the war and the passage of our troops through Romania for operations in the south of Romania.
In this case, we expose and deploy forces as indicated in option III.
The tasks of our Black Sea Fleet will be the same as indicated in the previous version (III).
The actions of the armies of France and England should amount to an attack against the primary aggressor as the main target, as set out in Option I.
The actions of the combined Anglo-French fleet should be amended against what is stated in Option I - to act towards decisive defeat of the combined fleet of aggressors in the Mediterranean Sea, especially in its eastern part.
V. A possible variant of military operations is when the aggression of the primary aggressor is directed against the USSR through the territories of Finland, Estonia and Latvia,
In this case, France and England, according to the agreement, must immediately enter the war with the aggressors. Poland, bound by a treaty with England and France and having our guarantee, must act on option I.
Our demand for the deployment of 40 Polish infantry divisions against East Prussia and in Poznan remains.
If in the Option I we alone deployed 70% of the armed forces that England and France directed against the primary aggressor attacking one of these powers, then in the event of the primary aggressor attacking us, we must demand from France and England to deploy forces on the 15th day of mobilization equal to 70% of what we deploy against the primary aggressor according to this option.
We can deploy 120 infantry divisions. Therefore, we must demand the deployment of the following English and French forces against the primary aggressor north of Belfort and to Belgium:
84 infantry divisions
13,000 to 13,500 medium and heavy guns
from 3,000 to 3,500 tanks
from 5,000 to 5,500 aircraft.
From the 16th day of mobilization, these forces must launch a decisive attack against the primary aggressor north of Metz and from Belgium with the general direction of the main attack toward Magdeburg.
The air forces of France and England must inflict a powerful blow on the industrial areas of the primary aggressor, on the bases of his navy, on railways, highways, as well as on the capital and major administrative centers.
The actions of the Anglo-French Navy should occur according to option I.
The command of our armed forces remains with us. Coordination of the military action is achieved by special agreement during the war.
It is hard to imagine that the primary aggressor would send part of his forces against us through Romania. However, this option is not excluded, and therefore in this case, Poland, Turkey and Greece should be involved in providing assistance to Romania by England and France, and some of our troops are provided with a passage through Galicia and Romania.
The actions of our Black Sea Fleet should be coordinated with the actions of the Turkish Fleet, as set out in version IV.
When the primary aggressor attacks us, we must demand the deployment of the above forces by France, England and Belgium, their decisive offensive from the 16th day of mobilization against the primary aggressor and the most active Polish participation in the war, as well as the unhindered passage of our troops through the territory of the Vilnius corridor and Galicia with the provision of rolling stock.
The foregoing is a prerequisite for negotiations, during which the positions of France and England will be clarified in a sincere desire to conclude an agreement.
Signed by B. Shaposhnikov
Stalin's actions and inactions, however bad, have no bearing on Nazi culpability for their own actions.
Has any country been as lavishly supplied by its allies as the USSR was by the WAllies?
Wiki: In all, $31.4 billion went to the United Kingdom, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union
It's illuminating that after 68 comments there's not one mention of reverse Lend-Lease from the Soviet Union. If the Western Allies aren't shipping from their end, why would the Soviets ship from theirs?
Look at the colour of the conversion coatings on U.S small arms. Pre-war they're black (Manganese Phosphate), during the war they have to switch to an inferior Zinc Phosphating process as they're that short of Manganese - one of the things the Soviet Union is shipping them in return. Why such a demand for Managanese? Manganese oxide is a refactory material, you line stuff like crucibles for pouring steel with it. No reverse lend lease Manganese, U.S steel production gets crimped.
Listen to Ian on forgotten weapons talk about the Reising M50 SMG used in the Pacific. Why were they so desperate for such troubled small arms? In large part because operation in environments with salt spray at tropical temperatures will induce rust at 10-20x the rate of somewhere like temperate Europe. What can you alloy with the steel in your landing craft to keep them from falling apart (it was having an effect on operations, for example there were questions about pulling landing craft out of the Burma theatre to support Mediterranean operations, but it was realized it couldn't be done as their hulls were now too corroded to last another Ocean journey)? Chrome, another part of Soviet reverse lend lease.
Think of Platinum. If you look at the notes for the first protocol period for the Lend Lease agreements there's a list of requests from the British. One of the few that are listed as 'urgent'is Platinum. Why? It's irreplaceable for the tips of extrusion nozzles in producing fibreglass
which gets used throughout the aircraft industry for noise, thermal & electronic insulation.
Potash is the real killer though. It's needed for fertilizer & fertilizers to be applied effectively need to be used in correct ratios. Don't have enough Potassium & you won't get the full effect of the Nitrogen & Phosphorus you're using. Soviet Lend-Lease Potash was shipped to Britain because it's easier to ship fertilizer than food (see the Bengal Famine - the Allies had the food, it was the ships to move it they lacked). No Potash -> lower agricultural yield -> increased manpower requirements from agriculture in Britain -> something has to be cut somewhere because they were scraping the bottom of fhe barrel for people. Absenteeism in their factories was down to 30 minutes a year by 1943, even after the government had to hold people back from overtime as early as 1940 for fear of them exhausting themselves. See 'British War economy' on ibiblio, they figured they couldn't find another 5,000 workers anywhere no matter how important any new project was. There's endless discussions about how the 1944 breakout in France might have gone differently & seized the Scheldt but little attention paid to why D-Day happens in June rather than May. It's because there's just not enough manpower to get the floating ports built.
The British Empire, and Commonwealth, wartime China, South Korea, South Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Ukraine come to mind. But everything is relative, and people do what they think is in their interests at the time.
Soviet logistics rode on US tanks & rail gear. Over 400.000 trucks and jeeps, almost 2000 locomotives, over 10000 rail cars of various types, over 35000 motorcycles...
As for artillery, many of Stalin's Organs were built on Studebaker chassis.
As for artillery, many of Stalin's Organs were built on Studebaker chassis.
Soviet logistics definitely didn't rode on US rail gear. It is a stupid myth born out uncritical quoting of one particular hack.
And the Russians had more US Aluminium than the USN.
The general problem is that in the Factual the Allies generally work together - ships returning from Murmansk carry useful stuff in their holds. 8th Air Force flies from bases built by the UK using British materiel, labour and money.
The Counter factual is harder. Without the Al going to the USSR the US is still producing Al. The Shipping still exists and Germany has still invaded. Things are harder for the Soviets to be sure, but how much harder is almost impossible to quantify. The morale effect of a bombardment - according to 21 AG OR reports is that 1/2 ton has the same morale effect as 1 ton over the same time period. So halving the weight of fire may not have any effect. 650 shells per Km2 will cut wire as will 1300 shells per km2. 1-2 shells per minute in a 200 yd square will keep officers firmly in their shelters. Upping that to 6 per minute neutralizes fire from that enemy. How many 200 yd squares do you need to bombard to break through the MLR.
So how many shells/area were the Soviets able to land. Not Known. Its quite possible that the weight of fire is in fact total overkill and a waste of effort. And that's without factoring in survey, met data, availability of maps to the batteries. We can however assume that the training pipeline is constant so the personnel available to the Soviets will at worst be more concentrated, though without the tech maybe not as effective.
And the big one is if the Soviets are not doing as well maybe the W Allies do something different. They have more shipping available, slack in industrial product not sent to the USSR and have the ability to redirect say 7th US infantry on Attu in 43, or the 5 Army Divisions in the Solomons and New Guinea that's the landing force for Husky or Avalanche or at least another corps or two.
One should note that a significant portion of the Britain’s largest civil engineering project ever at the time was the building, servicing, civilian staffing, AA and airborne protection for the use of the many USAAF squadrons together with all their water, sewage, draining costs plus the opportunity costs of the building labour and resources plus war work the civilian staff could have been doing otherwise. Britain was chronically short of warm bodies in the latter part of the war both for war production and fighting. By 1945 the conscripts who had been sent to the mines instead of the forces were being considered for re roling to infantry despite the consequences of a major shortfall on coal production and aircrew in training were being re roled in actuality. The Royal Navy had to have a serious comb out of non operational staff just to be able to man some of its ships at all. The army was combining regiments to keep an ever shrinking infantry force in the field and home AA batteries increasingly staffed by women and the otherwise unemployable. By comparison with the USA Britain was totally extended as a war economy and negligible slack was to be found. By contrast all LL sent to the Soviets was spent on themselves and Britain and Canada were sending stuff to Russia even before the USA was at war. A minor point and I am open to correction but the LL used by the Dominions were within the British LL budget.
My point is simply that the bare figures are not directly comparable between the LL sent to Britain and that sent to Russia. Furthermore Britain complied with the terms by returning or, as the USA required, destroying Lend Lease equipment at the end of the war or paying the price, in US dollars, to retain them. Hence by mid 1945 British tank units were all mounted in British tanks and all the Sherman’s returned to USA control or scrapped and the Royal Navy was gaily tossing hundreds of perfectly good US naval aeroplanes over the side of carriers all over the world. The Soviets just kept everything.
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