South East Asian Discovery of Australia?

[I'tikaf]

So I was reading up on Sulawesi and Java and I found that fishermen from Sulawesi would fish for sea cucumber around the coasts of Northern Australia. I'm not exactly sure about the dates but they seemed to have fished around here from the 15th-17th centuries. They also seemed to have traded with local aborigines. So how plausible would an earlier discovery of Australia by the Majapahit or even the Bugis be? Could they have colonised the coast? A Javanese-Australian Trade network?

 

[Intransigent Southerner]

From Sulawesi, not the Moluccas.

The Bugis did discover Australia. They just found nothing interesting in it, and for good reason (have you been to Arnhem Land?)

 

[I'tikaf]

From Sulawesi, not the Moluccas.

The Bugis did discover Australia. They just found nothing interesting in it, and for good reason (have you been to Arnhem Land?)

Thanks I'll correct it ASAP

 

[moxn]

There's been a few small statues/carvings discovered in northern Australia that look suspiciously similar to some Hindu gods and figures.

My guess is there was some tangential contact between some Indonesian polities and the various tribes in Australia, it's just that no one bothered to write about it. Or if they did, no one's bothered to translate and digitize it for us to find and read about online. The Indonesians probably thought it was just another island or string of islands to their south, with not that much to offer and not much of interest.

 

[I'tikaf]

There's been a few small statues/carvings discovered in northern Australia that look suspiciously similar to some Hindu gods and figures.

My guess is there was some tangential contact between some Indonesian polities and the various tribes in Australia, it's just that no one bothered to write about it. Or if they did, no one's bothered to translate and digitize it for us to find and read about online. The Indonesians probably thought it was just another island or string of islands to their south, with not that much to offer and not much of interest.

Could it have been more extensive though? Was there anything other than sea cucumbers that could have appealed to the Bugis? Also the Ganesh Statue is interesting... Hindu Indigenous Australians sound funky and really cool

 

[moxn]

Could it have been more extensive though? Was there anything other than sea cucumbers that could have appealed to the Bugis? Also the Ganesh Statue is interesting... Hindu Indigenous Australians sound funky and really cool

Pirates or raiders could have gone south to capture slaves or the like, but then there were much better targets out there since northern Australia was so sparsely populated. Maybe some vessels travel a bit further along the coasts and discover a lot of coral, and start harvesting that for trade as well.

 

[Richard V]

Could it have been more extensive though? Was there anything other than sea cucumbers that could have appealed to the Bugis? Also the Ganesh Statue is interesting... Hindu Indigenous Australians sound funky and really cool

Not much, just gold.

http://www.gold-net.com.au/maps1.html

 

[Arkenfolm]

Could it have been more extensive though? Was there anything other than sea cucumbers that could have appealed to the Bugis? Also the Ganesh Statue is interesting... Hindu Indigenous Australians sound funky and really cool

Sandalwood is found throughout Western Australia, including in the northern parts, so that would certainly count. Ideally, you might stumble upon gold while you're searching for more.

Also this thread needs to be brought up again:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-rotinese-colonization-of-australia.424155/

 

[I'tikaf]

Sandalwood is found throughout Western Australia, including in the northern parts, so that would certainly count. Ideally, you might stumble upon gold while you're searching for more.

Also this thread needs to be brought up again:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-rotinese-colonization-of-australia.424155/

Interesting.... In SEA there is a tradition of fleeing Princes founding cities and even Sultanates. Heck Malacca was founded by a fleeing Srivijayan Prince and Aceh was founded by Cham Refugees fleeing the destruction of their Kingdom. If the Routines had explored a little more and discovered Australia, I could see them establishing a few settlements along the coast. Not anything like Malacca certainly but just enough to change Australia's history. If a civil war had erupted ln the the routines homeland a fleeing routines Prince could certainly have established a colony.

 

[Jared]

Not much, just gold.

http://www.gold-net.com.au/maps1.html

Australia has lots of gold, with noteworthy qualities.

The most noteworthy of those qualities is Australian gold's preference to hide far enough inland that it won't be noticed by any initial visitors, and thus won't attract settlement unless the settlers have already been there for a while for some other reason.

 

[Richard V]

Australia has lots of gold, with noteworthy qualities.

The most noteworthy of those qualities is Australian gold's preference to hide far enough inland that it won't be noticed by any initial visitors, and thus won't attract settlement unless the settlers have already been there for a while for some other reason.

That’s true of gold fields anywhere really. Maybe sea cucumber collecting leads to sandalwood leads to discovery of gold.

 

[Deltax10]

Is it possible that increased presence of the Majapahit and the Bugis on North Australia could result in the Portuguese discovering it during the 16th century?

 

[Arkenfolm]

Maybe a Christianity-related route for Indonesian discovery and colonisation? Let's have the Himyarites of Yemen convert to Nestorian Christianity instead of Judaism, and Islam is butterflied. Over the next few centuries, Nestorians in India increase in number and power, and eventually a powerful Tamil state like the Chola dynasty converts to Christianity. By the early 2nd millennium AD, a powerful Javanese state like Majapahit converts to Christianity.

Indonesian Christianity ends up with a strong monastic tradition, and the vague concept of a desert land to the south appeals to monks seeking isolation. Soon, monasteries exist in the Kimberley and Top End, trading with Aboriginals (and converting some), along with attracting others from the motherland in time.

Is it possible that increased presence of the Majapahit and the Bugis on North Australia could result in the Portuguese discovering it during the 16th century?

The Portuguese probably did discover Australia in that time, but they thought nothing of it. It isn't too long before the Dutch discovered Australia, and Portugal was active in Timor which isn't too far away, so it's very plausible if not OTL.

 

[Practical Lobster]

Indonesian Christianity ends up with a strong monastic tradition, and the vague concept of a desert land to the south appeals to monks seeking isolation

What about just using an indigenous monastic tradition to make all of this easier... like Buddhism perhaps?

Still doesn't really get you where you need to be. Any sect so into isolation that they renounce even being a part of a community is going to die out within a generation. Best you get the Nesotrian or Buddhist equivalent of Jonestown but with slow starvation instead of suicide.

The biggest problem still remains an incompatible agricultural package.

 

[Arkenfolm]

What about just using an indigenous monastic tradition to make all of this easier... like Buddhism perhaps?

Still doesn't really get you where you need to be. Any sect so into isolation that they renounce even being a part of a community is going to die out within a generation. Best you get the Nesotrian or Buddhist equivalent of Jonestown but with slow starvation instead of suicide.

The biggest problem still remains an incompatible agricultural package.

True, but you'd need a change in Indonesian Buddhism to get that way. Regarding isolation, what would ideally happen is the community is constantly replenished by younger monks, plus there's a bit of trade between Java (or wherever) and Australia. There's likely to be some Aboriginals who would be converted and live around the mission, donating food to the monks in exchange for some goods, and might over time be more or less culturally assimilated.

There are some Indonesian crops which can grow in the Top End and Kimberley, which would likely end up being grown.

 

[Barry Bull]

Not much, just gold.

http://www.gold-net.com.au/maps1.html

@Jared

The closest area that has gold is about 300 km from modern day Darwin, meaning one has to travel a long distance in the hostile outback from the coast the obtain the gold. This is just not feasible in terms of supply the mines and exporting the mined gold thewithout steam technology.

 

[manitobot]

Hindu Aboriginals!

 

[Richard V]

@Jared

The closest area that has gold is about 300 km from modern day Darwin, meaning one has to travel a long distance in the hostile outback from the coast the obtain the gold. This is just not feasible in terms of supply the mines and exporting the mined gold thewithout steam technology.

Wenlock goldfield is only 50 km from the coast. Gold is not the first thing people will find of course. It's usually found by the native people first. But with sea cucumber and sandal wood as the starter commodities I think gold discovery is feasible after a couple of generations.

 

[Barry Bull]

Wenlock goldfield is only 50 km from the coast. Gold is not the first thing people will find of course. It's usually found by the native people first. But with sea cucumber and sandal wood as the starter commodities I think gold discovery is feasible after a couple of generations.

What about food supply?

 

[Richard V]

What about food supply?

If they are there to harvest luxury products, they could probably afford to bring food with them. Add to that hunting, fishing, and experimental planting of whatever crop that might grow. Rice will probably do okay in the Northern Territories.