Sort of AHC: make Roman Von Ungern-Sternberg More Successful

[Arkocento]

Im contemplating a Sternberg-Wank that is at least marginally possible. the best idea I can come up with is that Fatty Kaplan assassinating Lenin in 1918 Breaks the Soviet Base hard enough to Prolong the Russian Civil War. From there could Roman not gain control of Mongolia, perhaps extended his control further into a divided Russia, or a divided China?

 

[Arkocento]

bumpbumpbump

 

[Arkocento]

anything? anything at all?

 

[sciscisciortino]

It's kind of implausible but a genuinely fascinating timeline idea.

I can't imagine too many conservative whites hopping onto his weird mystic ideas though.

 

[yourworstnightmare]

The baron is certainly an interesting character, but what you need is almost asb. First you need to create the circumstances for Sternberg's operation to happen as OTL (Reds slowly winning, Chinese occupation of Mongolia etc.), then you need the Reds to suddenly not win after all, since Sternberg has no chance against the Reds and militias backed by them (since the baron really did not have any backers with an actual muscle to resist them).

However maybe having Ataman Semyonov carving out his own private Warlordistan in Tranbaikal could help, since Semyonov and the baron generally got along and had similar crazy ideas. But for this you need the Japanese to be more serious about the Far East Republic etc.

 

[Arkocento]

However maybe having Ataman Semyonov carving out his own private Warlordistan in Tranbaikal could help, since Semyonov and the baron generally got along and had similar crazy ideas. But for this you need the Japanese to be more serious about the Far East Republic etc.

Kolchak did accept Semyonov as the CiC of Chita, and would later on give up control of What remained of the White Movement to Semyonov after his defeats against the Bolsheviks.

Say that he remains in a sort of stalemate with them due to Infighting without Lenin to influence the situation. Can Russia effectively implode further from there?

l, Ataman Semyonov declared a "Great Mongol State" in 1918 and had designs to unify the Oirat Mongol lands, portions of Xinjiang, Transbaikal, Inner Mongolia, Outer Mongolia, Tannu Uriankhai, Khovd, Hu-lun-pei-erh and Tibet into one Mongolian state

Maybe that can be the starting point? With the Russians utterly stuck in chaos for an even Longer time due to the Communists not representing a united front, and the Whites not able to do the same either, can Sternberg, and obviously Semyonov as well expand control?

It doesn't seem so asb to have an assassination attempt in 1918 prove more successful and lead to a temporarily stronger situation for Semyonov and Sternberg.


From what I've looked up so far, Lenin was very much restrained from acting in ways that would force further Intervention from outside powers. could his death lead to more American and Japanese focus on deterring Bolshevik actions that would possible be seen as more aggressive? Could that lead to Sternberg gaining more influence?

 

[Franz Josef II]

Perhaps if the central powers win WWI, the Czech Legion could somehow be persuaded to offer services to Ungern - Sternberg?

 

[Alternate History]

Perhaps if the central powers win WWI, the Czech Legion could somehow be persuaded to offer services to Ungern - Sternberg?

It was named the Czechoslovak Legion, not the Mongol Legion, for a reason. It was a nationalist militia, not a mercenary force. Why would they serve some deranged Russian warlord in Mongolia? If the CPs won WWI, the Legion would probably... go back to Czechoslovak lands to make more trouble, or disperse in Russia itself.

 

[Arkocento]

Perhaps if the central powers win WWI, the Czech Legion could somehow be persuaded to offer services to Ungern - Sternberg?

Unfortunately Semyonov would alienate the Czechs far too fast, combined with how little Legion cared for fighting by august of 1918 it becomes quite hard to get any amount of Czechs to work for Ungern, or Semyonov for a extended period.

Its possible that, with partial control of the Railroad, that a lucky Ungern could end up in control of a large amount of Gold Bullion that was captured OTL, and spent some time in Irkutsk.

If the Central Powers win, and Kolchak still performs a coup, the end result would most likely be an evacuation to Entente countries,

go back to Czechoslovak lands to make more trouble, or disperse in Russia itself.

The Latter seems more likely, I don't think the CP would allow the Czechs anywhere near Austro-Hungarian borders.

 

[johnboy]

Unfortunately Semyonov would alienate the Czechs far too fast, combined with how little Legion cared for fighting by august of 1918 it becomes quite hard to get any amount of Czechs to work for Ungern, or Semyonov for a extended period.

Its possible that, with partial control of the Railroad, that a lucky Ungern could end up in control of a large amount of Gold Bullion that was captured OTL, and spent some time in Irkutsk.

If the Central Powers win, and Kolchak still performs a coup, the end result would most likely be an evacuation to Entente countries,


The Latter seems more likely, I don't think the CP would allow the Czechs anywhere near Austro-Hungarian borders.

He's in charge of a WW2 punishment division in my timeline.

 

[Octosteel]

The baron is certainly an interesting character, but what you need is almost asb. First you need to create the circumstances for Sternberg's operation to happen as OTL (Reds slowly winning, Chinese occupation of Mongolia etc.), then you need the Reds to suddenly not win after all, since Sternberg has no chance against the Reds and militias backed by them (since the baron really did not have any backers with an actual muscle to resist them).

However maybe having Ataman Semyonov carving out his own private Warlordistan in Tranbaikal could help, since Semyonov and the baron generally got along and had similar crazy ideas. But for this you need the Japanese to be more serious about the Far East Republic etc.

Historically, why were the Japanese not serious about the Far East Republic? You have a relatively self-sustainable nation there with vast amounts of oil that can be exploited while Russia was too weak to object. It seems like a no-brainer!

 

[Arkocento]

Historically, why were the Japanese not serious about the Far East Republic? You have a relatively self-sustainable nation there with vast amounts of oil that can be exploited while Russia was too weak to object. It seems like a no-brainer!

They were serious, however they backed the White Russians in a civil war where the Bolsheviks won, the end result was a hostile state that would do everything to regain the land Japan occupied. Combine that with the costs of maintaining any holding, and the seemingly abysmal chance of a Payout, its not surprising Japan gave up.

For Japan to prolong their intervention, the payout needs to be seen sooner rather than later, which requires a lack of victory by either side in the civil war.