Slow Drift to War Europe 1984
- Thread starter Farmer12
- Start date
Kennedy's Mission
10 am Washington DC Ted Kennedy was in his senate office making arrangements to travel to Moscow in one last effort to gain the peace he so desired. While many around the world applauded his efforts to end the crisis in a peace that would endure. He was being attacked not only from the right but from the middle and even some on the left were attacking him. They pointed out that Kennedy had no authority to negotiate an agreement with the Soviet Union and that the Romanov would just use the meeting for propaganda showing the division of the United States.
Tip O’Neil and Senator Byrd went to his office to talk him out of the decision. But Ted was adamant that he had to do what he could to stop the war from coming. Then Tip looked straight into Teddies eye and he told him, **Reagan and the British Ambassador spoke to both me and Senator Byrd a week ago. He already knew what was going to happen, the British have a well place agent and he informed the British about the movement of Spetsnaz agents into UK. The last weeks negotiations were just a ploy to allow the Soviet Union to move its Spetsnaz troops into place. Your trip will be nothing but another chance for Romanov to split the alliance. Face it war is coming and short of total abject surrender there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. **
Teddy stood there for a moment and then he replied, ** How can you believe what Reagan has said, he wants war and that is a fact. ** Senator Byrd stared straight into Senator Kennedy face and he replied, ** The British don’t want to fight a war so why and that is a fact. Also, they are the source of the information the British Ambassador would not lie about something so important. You have to face reality the Soviet Union is not looking for peace it wants the Western Alliance crushed. Its demands for money and grain tells everyone just how bankrupt they are. If we give in today, they will be back for more in a year or three or five. War is coming and that is a fact. **
Senator Kennedy considered his reply and finally he spoke, **I said I will go to Moscow to try to end this crisis and I will. No one will talk me out my plans.** Tip stood for a minute before deciding to ask one favor out of Kennedy, **Go if you must but don’t tell Romanov about the agent will you do that for me?** Senator Kennedy considered his response finally he decided to agree, **I will not mention the undercover Soviet Agent especially since the whole story in nothing but a work of fiction.**
Back in Tips office the two men considered what to do next, but with Kennedy on a mission to save the world it would leave the Democratic party holding the bag. That mission would make it harder to convince Reagan to make a deal of some sort. After a few minutes of discussion, the two men decided that they hand done all they could do and now all they could do was wait.
Reagan was listening to yet another briefing but this one was about a decision that he barely remembered amongst all the other decision. After a couple of minutes, he remembered the decision two trident submarines to be used to take out the Soviet IRBM’s. Apparently since then the two submarines had went to the UK and now, they were on the way to Aegean Sea the plan was to have the boomers as close as possible to the IRBM base in the west of the Soviet Union. There was an increased risk of destruction of the submarines. The new position would cutdown on the length of time the missiles would be in the air. A minute or two or three could save millions of lives.
Mike Harper had been busy at work setting up stockpiles of food in various locations include the movement of cheese being sent to Homestake Mine in South Dakota the deep mine shafts were being used to stockpile cheese and other dairy products in the upper levels of the mine. Other food was being sent to the salt mines in New York, Kansas Louisiana. Other locations were being considered like a the Salt mines under Detroit and Cleveland but since these location would be hit putting stockpiles of food in those mines were considered to be risky. Coal Mines were be used to in Pennsylvania, West Virginia Kentucky amongst other locations. Then he had received a summons from the National Security Advisor and he figured he wanted a briefing on the placement of food stuff.
Robert McFarlane, as National Security Advisor was tasked with the continuity of governments, most of the cabinet were despite some protests quite willing to spend their time sitting in a bunker somewhere especially if they were assured that their family would be put into a safe location. But getting someone to ride around in passenger plane and wait for World War 3 to breakout was not as popular. In Mike he found someone who had no desire to sit around in a bunker. Mike told McFarlane he was claustrophobic so sitting in a plane where he could look out a window was much more relaxing to him. With that he was told that he was to meet group three of the continuity of Governments aerial mobile government response.
McFarlane knew that two cabinet members would be located in rural regions of the United States. They would move from town to town staying in no place more than a day. The idea was to add another layer of presidential successors. The Vice President and Secretary of Defense in the air, other cabinet members in various bunkers add on two cabinet members on the ground moving from location to location. Malcolm Baldridge who was going to be running around the South going from town to town while the Secretary of the Interior Clark would be pulling a similar routine in northern Nevada, southern Oregon and Idaho. But both of these teams were to be small and highly mobile while it had been felt that running around the country with large support staffs would be a problem. It had been proposed that one member of the cabinet be located on each of the three planes. With one plane in the air at all times, it added another layer of continuity
Mike Harper was going to be one of those Cabinet members and he was given his choice of which flight he would be on. He picked the late-night flight, he had a feeling that being in the air on the first day at night when the first attack began would be a good idea. The Soviet military would hit with nukes and things would go downhill fast. At least that was his theory.
5 pm Moscow General Secretary Romanov listened to the reports from Washington, Senator Kennedy wanted to come to Moscow. But Romanov did not want to waste his time dealing with this Senator. He had ordered Anatoly Dobrynin to take over from Gromyko as the Soviet Union’s new head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. So, for a second, he toyed with Dobrynin talking to Kennedy. But finally, he made his decision. Kennedy would be a distraction, so he decided that at the daily press briefing the briefer would announce that unless Kennedy brought a statement signed by President Reagan giving in on all the demands. He would not be welcomed.
6pm Moscow The daily briefing was all window dressing and it almost never had anything of importance happen during the briefing until yesterday. So today the expectation was a return to the normal stale no news briefings. The briefer come out and began the briefing with the announcement that the Peace Mission being led by Senator Kennedy would not be welcome unless he brought an announcement that President Reagan agreed to the terms of the ultimatum. That was news the last chance for peace had just been snuffed out by the new General Secretary of the Soviet Union. When the briefing was over the press hurried out to make the announcement. The news flash would be pretty much like a knife thrust into the heart of the peace movement. It made it clear that the Soviet Union was not interested in peace. The peace movement could protest but the chances of an accommodation with the Soviet Union was now nonexistent.
7pm London Gordievsky slipped into the MI-6 safe house, the news he had was at good and depressing. The would not happen on the first day. But the KGB would send an alert roughly twenty-four hours ahead the attack so that the various sabotage teams time to do final preparations and to move into position. The exact hour of the main attack would not be given just a rough approximation. Good in they now would know a day ahead of schedule about the attack just not exactly what hour. The depressing part that World War Three was on the way and the Soviet Union was not getting cold feet like many analysts had predicted.
9am CST Omaha Andy Striet hugged his wife and children, then he watched them head down the street headed the Kennedy Freeway and then I-90 west in about nine or ten hours they would be in Limon Colorado and the next day they would be in Durango. She promised to call and at least leave a message on the answering machine. He wondered if he would ever see them again, he hoped that he would be able to. But with war on the way who knew who would live and who would die. But he had done all he could to make sure they survived even if he did not.
1 PM EST New York City ABC, CBS and NBC all interrupted their regularly scheduled programs to tell the nation that Kennedy’s mission of peace would not happen. General Secretary Romanov had made that complete clear.
2PM Washington DC The Pentagon sent a message to all American forces that the Soviet Union could launch a surprise attack before the deadline they had declared. All American ships at sea and Aircraft were to take extra care to avoid being surprised at sea. They knew the message was not accurate but any Soviet agents that read the message would report that the Americans were on alert and that they were expecting an attack immediately after the ultimatum came to an end. Deception was a necessary part of war.
2:30pm Washington
The message that the KGB had sent to Gordievsky arrived in Washington. The mood at the Pentagon had improved they would have a twenty-four hour, notice on when the attack would happen.
3pm Senator Kennedy held a press conference where he pleaded with the Soviet Union to allow him to visit so that he could offer a meaningful compromise. Shortly afterward the White House announced that any compromise offered by Kennedy to the Soviet Union had no official backing.
4pm CST Joe Banner smiled to himself, he had managed to buy a radio station with a tower in a hill and he had the ability to increase the strength of that broadcast. The plan was simple at night he would broadcast the news that he gathered during the day by talking to Ham Operators across America and by listening to government broadcasts and other source to let the people know that American was not beaten and that even if she was badly hurt, she would rise again. But he would obey the rules until the nukes flew.
That evening across the world in dozens of cities thousands of people were marching on the street singing give peace a chance, others were watching and jeering them as they walked by. The watching people were calling them traitors and cries of appeasing bastards were amongst the line called out. Somewhere yelling out an old insult to the Kennedy family going back to when old Joe Kennedy had been a total appeaser. The comment that I though my daffodils were yellows until I saw Kennedy that comment caused more than a few fist fights to broke out. A TV announcer made the comment that the light of peace was going out.
Tip O’Neil and Senator Byrd went to his office to talk him out of the decision. But Ted was adamant that he had to do what he could to stop the war from coming. Then Tip looked straight into Teddies eye and he told him, **Reagan and the British Ambassador spoke to both me and Senator Byrd a week ago. He already knew what was going to happen, the British have a well place agent and he informed the British about the movement of Spetsnaz agents into UK. The last weeks negotiations were just a ploy to allow the Soviet Union to move its Spetsnaz troops into place. Your trip will be nothing but another chance for Romanov to split the alliance. Face it war is coming and short of total abject surrender there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. **
Teddy stood there for a moment and then he replied, ** How can you believe what Reagan has said, he wants war and that is a fact. ** Senator Byrd stared straight into Senator Kennedy face and he replied, ** The British don’t want to fight a war so why and that is a fact. Also, they are the source of the information the British Ambassador would not lie about something so important. You have to face reality the Soviet Union is not looking for peace it wants the Western Alliance crushed. Its demands for money and grain tells everyone just how bankrupt they are. If we give in today, they will be back for more in a year or three or five. War is coming and that is a fact. **
Senator Kennedy considered his reply and finally he spoke, **I said I will go to Moscow to try to end this crisis and I will. No one will talk me out my plans.** Tip stood for a minute before deciding to ask one favor out of Kennedy, **Go if you must but don’t tell Romanov about the agent will you do that for me?** Senator Kennedy considered his response finally he decided to agree, **I will not mention the undercover Soviet Agent especially since the whole story in nothing but a work of fiction.**
Back in Tips office the two men considered what to do next, but with Kennedy on a mission to save the world it would leave the Democratic party holding the bag. That mission would make it harder to convince Reagan to make a deal of some sort. After a few minutes of discussion, the two men decided that they hand done all they could do and now all they could do was wait.
Reagan was listening to yet another briefing but this one was about a decision that he barely remembered amongst all the other decision. After a couple of minutes, he remembered the decision two trident submarines to be used to take out the Soviet IRBM’s. Apparently since then the two submarines had went to the UK and now, they were on the way to Aegean Sea the plan was to have the boomers as close as possible to the IRBM base in the west of the Soviet Union. There was an increased risk of destruction of the submarines. The new position would cutdown on the length of time the missiles would be in the air. A minute or two or three could save millions of lives.
Mike Harper had been busy at work setting up stockpiles of food in various locations include the movement of cheese being sent to Homestake Mine in South Dakota the deep mine shafts were being used to stockpile cheese and other dairy products in the upper levels of the mine. Other food was being sent to the salt mines in New York, Kansas Louisiana. Other locations were being considered like a the Salt mines under Detroit and Cleveland but since these location would be hit putting stockpiles of food in those mines were considered to be risky. Coal Mines were be used to in Pennsylvania, West Virginia Kentucky amongst other locations. Then he had received a summons from the National Security Advisor and he figured he wanted a briefing on the placement of food stuff.
Robert McFarlane, as National Security Advisor was tasked with the continuity of governments, most of the cabinet were despite some protests quite willing to spend their time sitting in a bunker somewhere especially if they were assured that their family would be put into a safe location. But getting someone to ride around in passenger plane and wait for World War 3 to breakout was not as popular. In Mike he found someone who had no desire to sit around in a bunker. Mike told McFarlane he was claustrophobic so sitting in a plane where he could look out a window was much more relaxing to him. With that he was told that he was to meet group three of the continuity of Governments aerial mobile government response.
McFarlane knew that two cabinet members would be located in rural regions of the United States. They would move from town to town staying in no place more than a day. The idea was to add another layer of presidential successors. The Vice President and Secretary of Defense in the air, other cabinet members in various bunkers add on two cabinet members on the ground moving from location to location. Malcolm Baldridge who was going to be running around the South going from town to town while the Secretary of the Interior Clark would be pulling a similar routine in northern Nevada, southern Oregon and Idaho. But both of these teams were to be small and highly mobile while it had been felt that running around the country with large support staffs would be a problem. It had been proposed that one member of the cabinet be located on each of the three planes. With one plane in the air at all times, it added another layer of continuity
Mike Harper was going to be one of those Cabinet members and he was given his choice of which flight he would be on. He picked the late-night flight, he had a feeling that being in the air on the first day at night when the first attack began would be a good idea. The Soviet military would hit with nukes and things would go downhill fast. At least that was his theory.
5 pm Moscow General Secretary Romanov listened to the reports from Washington, Senator Kennedy wanted to come to Moscow. But Romanov did not want to waste his time dealing with this Senator. He had ordered Anatoly Dobrynin to take over from Gromyko as the Soviet Union’s new head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. So, for a second, he toyed with Dobrynin talking to Kennedy. But finally, he made his decision. Kennedy would be a distraction, so he decided that at the daily press briefing the briefer would announce that unless Kennedy brought a statement signed by President Reagan giving in on all the demands. He would not be welcomed.
6pm Moscow The daily briefing was all window dressing and it almost never had anything of importance happen during the briefing until yesterday. So today the expectation was a return to the normal stale no news briefings. The briefer come out and began the briefing with the announcement that the Peace Mission being led by Senator Kennedy would not be welcome unless he brought an announcement that President Reagan agreed to the terms of the ultimatum. That was news the last chance for peace had just been snuffed out by the new General Secretary of the Soviet Union. When the briefing was over the press hurried out to make the announcement. The news flash would be pretty much like a knife thrust into the heart of the peace movement. It made it clear that the Soviet Union was not interested in peace. The peace movement could protest but the chances of an accommodation with the Soviet Union was now nonexistent.
7pm London Gordievsky slipped into the MI-6 safe house, the news he had was at good and depressing. The would not happen on the first day. But the KGB would send an alert roughly twenty-four hours ahead the attack so that the various sabotage teams time to do final preparations and to move into position. The exact hour of the main attack would not be given just a rough approximation. Good in they now would know a day ahead of schedule about the attack just not exactly what hour. The depressing part that World War Three was on the way and the Soviet Union was not getting cold feet like many analysts had predicted.
9am CST Omaha Andy Striet hugged his wife and children, then he watched them head down the street headed the Kennedy Freeway and then I-90 west in about nine or ten hours they would be in Limon Colorado and the next day they would be in Durango. She promised to call and at least leave a message on the answering machine. He wondered if he would ever see them again, he hoped that he would be able to. But with war on the way who knew who would live and who would die. But he had done all he could to make sure they survived even if he did not.
1 PM EST New York City ABC, CBS and NBC all interrupted their regularly scheduled programs to tell the nation that Kennedy’s mission of peace would not happen. General Secretary Romanov had made that complete clear.
2PM Washington DC The Pentagon sent a message to all American forces that the Soviet Union could launch a surprise attack before the deadline they had declared. All American ships at sea and Aircraft were to take extra care to avoid being surprised at sea. They knew the message was not accurate but any Soviet agents that read the message would report that the Americans were on alert and that they were expecting an attack immediately after the ultimatum came to an end. Deception was a necessary part of war.
2:30pm Washington
The message that the KGB had sent to Gordievsky arrived in Washington. The mood at the Pentagon had improved they would have a twenty-four hour, notice on when the attack would happen.
3pm Senator Kennedy held a press conference where he pleaded with the Soviet Union to allow him to visit so that he could offer a meaningful compromise. Shortly afterward the White House announced that any compromise offered by Kennedy to the Soviet Union had no official backing.
4pm CST Joe Banner smiled to himself, he had managed to buy a radio station with a tower in a hill and he had the ability to increase the strength of that broadcast. The plan was simple at night he would broadcast the news that he gathered during the day by talking to Ham Operators across America and by listening to government broadcasts and other source to let the people know that American was not beaten and that even if she was badly hurt, she would rise again. But he would obey the rules until the nukes flew.
That evening across the world in dozens of cities thousands of people were marching on the street singing give peace a chance, others were watching and jeering them as they walked by. The watching people were calling them traitors and cries of appeasing bastards were amongst the line called out. Somewhere yelling out an old insult to the Kennedy family going back to when old Joe Kennedy had been a total appeaser. The comment that I though my daffodils were yellows until I saw Kennedy that comment caused more than a few fist fights to broke out. A TV announcer made the comment that the light of peace was going out.
Should Ted do this, and depending when, it could royally screw up the NATO plans to blunt the Soviet attack. Furthermore if this happens and it gets out, Ted is looking at a treason trial and O'Neill and Byrd are in deep doo-doo for revealing this information to Ted. Of course all of them may be radioactive ash before all is said and done, however if this occurs and somehow the facts come out postmortem the Kennedy name will be there along with Benedict Arnold and John Wilkes Booth, and the supporters of the peace movement even more tarred with a stain.
Geon
Donor
Kennedy is an idealist but he is no fool. He should realize by now that unless he goes to Moscow with a signed agreement by Regan to agree to the unconditional surrender err..."peace deal" he is not going to be let in the door. Despite what I have heard both on this board and in other conversations I do not believe Ted Kennedy is a traitor. He wants peace. But by now he should realize that it is time to unite behind the president. It would be nice if he gave a speech whose main points included getting behind the government in this moment of crisis and praying for the nation.
Good to see measures being taken to ensure the survival of cabinet members and thus continuity of the US government.
I imagine that under secretaries and assistant under secretaries are being equally dispersed through bunkers and mobile teams in remote locations.
I imagine that under secretaries and assistant under secretaries are being equally dispersed through bunkers and mobile teams in remote locations.
I agree.
On a personal note, at some point during this timeline I would have been recalled to active duty with the US Navy as a surgeon (I was an active reservist). Exactly where I would be depends on a lot of factors. In my particular specialty that skill is "wartime critical", the odds are good I would be assigned to a field medical facility in support of the Marines (a surgical company). In such a capacity I could be in Northern Norway with the USMC presence there, or aboard a large amphibious ship with the embarked Marines, or anywhere you have deployed Marines. Lots of other possibilities. I wonder where I would have sent my wife and children, if the mushrooms sprout the reality is my survival might be more likely than that of my family. Not good.
Archangel- some efforts have been made for continuity of government but the locations of a lot of these bunkers have been targeted. The moving targets have the best chance of not being targeted. But the stray warhead or a cloud of radiation connecting with some of the more mobile elements of the government leadership will be a possible problem.
kio- Thank you, I try to keep it real and it will get more upleasant.
sloreck- finding a safe location for the families of the military is a problem. The dependants of the military personal frequently live in target locals. The military in some situation are moving family members away from targeted locations.
kio- Thank you, I try to keep it real and it will get more upleasant.
sloreck- finding a safe location for the families of the military is a problem. The dependants of the military personal frequently live in target locals. The military in some situation are moving family members away from targeted locations.
Jack Brisco
Banned
At this time ALL US/NATO/Allied ISR assets worldwide have been in wartime mode for a while. Am sure it would be the same for the USSR/WP, and for China as well. We were doing our wartime job even during "normal" times anyway. The increasing DEFCONS just amped things up.
US military dependents in Europe should be just about all gone by now. Probably the same for US dependents in Korea and Japan. In the USA itself, you have maybe a couple of million dependents. A number will be able to evacuate to safer areas, but many will not. The military will have only a limited means to move people; they're getting ready for war. You would also see certain military/government organizations already evacuated to their wartime locations. Copies of certain vital records have long since been microfilmed and stored in deep storage. The long runup to war has been a huge help in such evacuations, as well as repositioning of supply stockpiles. Am also guessing that earth-moving equipment has been prepositioned outside certain target areas. And you can bet everyone has been paying very close attention to all information coming from Civil Defense, and that the Emergency Broadcast System has been tested and ready to go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Broadcast_System
US military dependents in Europe should be just about all gone by now. Probably the same for US dependents in Korea and Japan. In the USA itself, you have maybe a couple of million dependents. A number will be able to evacuate to safer areas, but many will not. The military will have only a limited means to move people; they're getting ready for war. You would also see certain military/government organizations already evacuated to their wartime locations. Copies of certain vital records have long since been microfilmed and stored in deep storage. The long runup to war has been a huge help in such evacuations, as well as repositioning of supply stockpiles. Am also guessing that earth-moving equipment has been prepositioned outside certain target areas. And you can bet everyone has been paying very close attention to all information coming from Civil Defense, and that the Emergency Broadcast System has been tested and ready to go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Broadcast_System
True the military cannot move all of the dependants, But some bases knowing that they are major targets in event of war for moral purposes could move the bases dependants to safer locations. Ellsworth AFB to Casper Wy., Minot AFB to Buffalo Wy. Malstrom AFB to the Kalispel area of Mt. In other case individuals are moving family members to what they perceive as safer locations. But at the same time, I would expect a certain degree of resignation the feeling that we all will do so their is no reason to run. It all depends on where you are living to a considerable degree or if you have a some sort of bolthole to go to.
Agree totally the overseas dependents will be gone - every empty aircraft, military or CRAF, that brought over troops or gear for REFORGER and more will be bringing back dependents as well as any none4ssential DOD employees (folks that staff DOD schools, various sorts of clerks and so forth). For military dependents on the states, there is a complex calculus. Is the base one that is a likely target or near a city likely to be hit? There are going to be bases that are pretty far down the target list, if on it at all and if the base is not hit being on a military base is going to be one of the safest places to be in the aftermath.(1) Of course, the issue is if the family wants to relocate, do they have a safer place to go to - moving from Loring AFB to the in-laws in Queens, NY is not an improvement. The military could take over resorts in more rural areas as temporary housing for families, and have some troops there for security - lots of "resort complexes/timeshare places" in relatively out of the way spots.
(1) As an example Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center in the Sierras is unlikely to be on the Soviet target list, a relatively small installation not worth a weapon. The folks on and around that base are much better off where they are than going anywhere else. Only one of many examples.
(1) As an example Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center in the Sierras is unlikely to be on the Soviet target list, a relatively small installation not worth a weapon. The folks on and around that base are much better off where they are than going anywhere else. Only one of many examples.
22/21August D-2 The commander of the Southwest Strategic Direction had been busy man over the last few weeks. He had been reshuffling the locations of the units under his command and the movement of those units. With the Politburo busy with the crisis and then deciding who would become the next General Secretary. So, he had made a number of decisions, he had repositioned the Bulgarian Army. He had also put an intervention force in case the Romanians changed sides. Reports from the KGB indicated that Ceausescu was playing both sides against the other. He had decided that threatening Ceausescu would be a bad idea. The last thing he needed was for Ceausescu to forbid the movement of troops, equipment and supplies through Romania. But he was going to be ready for Ceausescu treachery. Finally, he had organized the attack on Turkey to seize Turkish Thrace and then cross the Straits of the Bosporus and then secure both sided of the straits. Doing that would allow the Black Seas Fleet to enter the Mediterranean.
Hungary was in first place to be discussed, the southernmost division is the Hungarian Army 15th MRD it is the least combat ready of all the Hungarian Army divisions. But its mission will be to hold the frontline and make no advances since the terrain is adverse, to attacking units. The length of the line the division will hold is approximately eleven kilometers. The next section of the frontline will be covered by the 4TH MRD the part of frontline it covers is only eight kilometers with the 11th Tank division right behind. This will be the main thrust of the Hungarian Army. The north of this will be the 8th MRD to drive against the Austrian’s Army all four of these divisions form the 1st Hungarian Army. These units were to drive on Graz Austria.
The next section of the line will be covered by the 7th MRD the part of the line covered will be from just west of Jak Hungary to just east of Lockenhaus Austria. Covering about thirty-five kilometers of the front. Then the 9th MRD will cover the remaining forty kilometers from Lockenhaus running along the border to just south of Sopron Hungary a distance of some forty-five kilometers. The 2nd Hungarian Army controls these two divisions. The Hungarian Army will control approximately one hundred kilometers of the two-hundred-and-forty-kilometer border. The rest will be under the control of the Soviet Army.
There is one major problem the Italian 4th Corp has been committed the Steiermark Military Command four of its five brigades have been committed to that command. The Cadore brigade, Julia Brigade, the Orobica brigade and finally the Tridentina Brigade. The Austrian Army will have the 5th Jager Brigade as well as several Territorial Army regiments, 51st, 52nd, 53rd, 54th and 55th.
The 38th Combined Arms Army 17th, 70th, 128th, 275th and the 664th MRD as well as the 21st covering roughly fifty kilometers of the front. This army will be one of two prongs of the drive on Vienna. The other prong of this drive will be the 8th Tank Army the divisions are 18th 19th 30th Guard Tank Divisions, the 23rd and 50th Tank Division’s. Also, the 33rd and 93rd Guard MRD and the 23rd Assault Landing Brigade will be involved in the attack and this is the second prong of the attack on Vienna. The plan is to drive on Vienna and then the 38th Combined Arms Army will drive up the Danube river into northern Austria and into Bavaria. But first each army will have to breakthrough two very heavily fortified positions the 38th Combined Arms Army will have attack the Odin. While the 8th Army will be attacking Brucker Pforte neither fortification will be a walk over and there is the 1st Jager brigade for reinforcements and a battalion of light infantry will be setup in the mountains with the mission of attacking the 38th Combined Arms Army.
Then I have organized the 41st Combined Arms Army with the 62nd Tank division and the 168th and 251st MRD this force will cover the border with Yugoslavia. I did this because I feel that we cannot trust the Slovenes and Croatians to remain neutral and I worry that the Italian army could make its way through Slovenia and possibly Croatia to attack Hungary from the flank. By putting this force along the border, I am securing my flank. It was quite apparent to Field Marshall Orskov that the Commander of the Southwest Strategic Direction did not agree with his assessment of the lack of danger regarding Yugoslavia. But it was better than his current commander of the Western Direction who was not showing much in the way of initiative.
I have also taken the liberty of moving three divisions from the Battle order of the 1 Guards Army. The 52nd, 58th and 65th Tank Division to be used as the reserve force for the drive into Austria. I have designated this force as the 31st Tank Corp also the Stavka has sent the 40th Corp with the 43rd ,96th 213th MRD. Considering the recent movement of Italian Army divisions into Northern Austrian. Those divisions could come in useful for the drive on to Salzburg and then onto Munich. But the movement of these divisions will not be completed until at least a few days into the war. These division could also be used to attack into Yugoslavia and drive on the Italian border we can reinforce the Danube offensive and drive on the Italian border.
Now we will discuss the placement of Bulgarian Army. The 1ST Army had three division two the 1st and 3rd utilized the T-55’s and the 21st mostly had T-34/85’s except for one battalion of T-55’s. The setup was simple enough the 1st MRD would defend route 1 the western most highway on the Bulgarian Greek Front. While the 3rd MRD would defend Highway 19. With the 21st MRD would be held in reserve. This is where the American Armies 1st Corp with the 35th Mechanized infantry Division National Guard, the 7th Infantry Division Regular Army and the 26th Infantry Division National Guard. As well as the 9th Cavalry Brigade Regular Army and the 81st Mechanized Infantry Brigade National Guard. We do admit that this force could break through the defenses of the Bulgarian
1st Army.
The 2nd Army with two division the 2nd and the 17th MRD’s both use T-55’s except for one company of T-34/85’s in the 17th MRD. The 17TH will defend the area around Highway 37. While the 2nd MRD will defend the area around Highway 86. The Greek Army D Corp was split into two attack forces. The Greeks Armies 50th and 88th Infantry brigade and the 29th Infantry Regiment. These units will attack the 2nd MRD. The rest of D Corp the 12th and 16th Infantry division will concentrate on the 17th MRD.
The 3rd Army has three divisions two will be concentrated in the area around the cities of Mogilyane, Domishte and Sarovo. The 7th and 16th MRD both utilizing T-55’s with a few T-34’s. While the 18th MRD covering the left flank of the 3rd Army with the bulk of the division located in and around the Ivaylovgrad. This division has two battalion of T-55’s with the rest of the tanks being T-34’. A Corp with the 8th, 9th ,15th Infantry division Infantry are concentrating the 7th and 16th MRD’s. While the 11th division of C Corp will attack the 18th MRD. While the 10TH Infantry Division hold back our force as they invade Turkey.
At the same time the Greek Army had formed a new Armored Division the 30th Armored and with the 20th Armored and the 2nd Mechanized Infantry the new Corp is called the H Armored Corp. The Corp is located close to the Turkish border we feel that if our force breakthrough that Corp will be used to block the advance of our forces. But that would mean the Turks would have to ask for help from the Greek.
That comment brought a laughter from the members of the Politburo, they all knew that the two countries hated each other more than they hated the Soviet Union. Romanov commented that the truth was that the Turks would rather lose the war than ask for help from the Greeks. That comment gained a note of agreement.
Now holding the line between the division are reservists who will watch any road and or trail through the mountains are local reservist familiar with the mountains in their respective areas. Also, a reserve has been created using the Bulgarian Independent tank Brigades. The 9th and 13th Brigades which operate T-72’s, with the remaining three brigades the 5th ,11th and 24th Tank brigade operate T-55’s. These brigades will be the first units called upon to deal with any problems met by the Bulgarian army.
I have made some modification of the setup of our forces in the west of Bulgaria. The 32nd Corp with the 126th and 157th MRD’s will take up position around Sofia the capital of Bulgaria. There primary mission is to reinforce the 1st Bulgarian Army if the American 1st Corp succeeds in breaking though 1st Bulgarian Army. The two division previously assigned to Sofia the 28th and 92nd as well as the 159th MRD have been move to Turkish border to reinforce the attack against Turkey. I will talk more about these divisions later on in the briefing.
The 1st Guards Combined Army boundary will the 3rd Bulgarian Army. It will handle a section of the front from Orestias to approximately twenty kilometers east of where Highway 7 crosses the Turkish border. That will be a force of the 41st Guard Tank division and the 25th and 72nd Guard MRD and the 47th, 200th and 204th MRD’s as well as the 126th and 157th MRD’s. Also, the 39th, 40th, 57th and 58th Assault Landing Brigades This force will break open the Turkish lines and drive a wedge into the Turkish lines allowing the 6th Guards Tank Army to drive on Istanbul that forces will include the 17th, 22nd 42n, 75th Guards Tank division a force of over twelve hundred T-64’s.
The brought wave of smiles as the Politburo was now sure that the Turks were going to be defeated on the open battlefield. Then the Commander of the Southwest Strategic direction went over the last section of the Turkish frontlines a distance of approximately one hundred and fifty kilometers will be covered by several different Corps. The 34th Corp with the 82nd, 197th MRD and the 112th Guards Tank Division to be held in reserve will cover the first part of the line. The section of the line it will cover will be from boundary with the 1st Guards Combined Arms Army to Highway 99. The 82nd will be to the west and the 197th to the east. The 64th Corp will cover the remaining section of the line we have attached the 159th MRD to with the 36th and 46th. The 159th and 46th will be on the front of the line while the 36th MRD will be held in reserve.
Facing our forces is the Turkish 1st Army, the Turkish army has placed the two divisions of the 2nd Corp on a narrow front to deal with what they consider the most threatened section of the line. From Greek Turkish border just south of Edirne for a distance of thirty-five kilometers to just east of the town of Hanliyanice. The divisions are entrenched just behind this stream those division are the 4th and 8th Infantry division. Each of these divisions have two infantry brigades and one armored brigade. In reserve behind the line are two armored brigades the 1st and 3rd Armored brigades.
The 3rd Corp will cover the next section of the line From Hanliyanice to Omeroba the 2nd Infantry division but this divisions third brigade is a mechanized brigade. The 6th infantry division also has a mechanized brigade and will take control of the line from Omeroba to Develtliagac, then on to the town of Terzidere. In reserve will be the 33rd Infantry division this particular division third brigade is Armored. Next is the 5th Corp. The 23rd Infantry division has a mechanized brigade. The section of the line to be covered is from Develtliagac to Derekoy a distance of twenty kilometers. Then from Derekoy to Sarpdere the 28th Infantry division has been moved in from Cyprus to cover that section of the line. The 15th Corp covers the remainder of the line. From Sarpdere to Avcilar is covered by the 58th Infantry division a force that is exclusively an infantry division that is reinforced but made up of reservist troops. But this section of the line is very rugged wooded terrain so its weaknesses will not affect it as much. Finally, the Turkish army has created the 60th Infantry division made up of the 1st, 3rd, 5th Infantry brigades and the 58th Artillery brigade. This division cover the remaining twenty or so kilometers of the front from Avicilar to the coast. Behind the 58th and 60th infantry division is the 65th Infantry division as this Corps reserve force.
As for the remaining forces of the 1st army there is the newly created 10th Corp with the 3rd and 66th Mechanized infantry divisions and the 1st Armored division which is made up of mostly obsolete tanks. Also, there are several independents units the 2nd and 5th armored brigades, the 11th and 41st Infantry brigades and the 18th Armored regiments as well as two artillery brigades the 58th and 59th Artillery brigades.
Next, we look at the rear areas. Held in reserve will be the 12th Corp. This Corp will be used at the command decides. The divisions of this Corp the 14th Tank Division and the 9th, 113th and 156th MRD. While no one said a word, everyone knew that the Corp would be used against either the Turks or Romanians. No one trusted Ceausescu any further than they could throw the Kremlin.
Facing our forces are a group of infantry divisions backed up by two mechanized infantry division one armored division of most outdated tanks and a number of armored brigades and infantry brigades. Finally, a force of divisions will remain as a Front reserve the 168th,252nd, 257th and the 268th MRD also a group of category D division will remain in the Ukraine as part of that same force the 280th, 281st, 282nd ,283rd 284th, ,285th ,286th ,287th ,288th ,289th and the 290th divisions. Their mission will be to swiftly crush Romania if it becomes necessary. With that the briefing was over.
Lubyanka As Chairman of the KGB Victor Chebrikov was very proud of the intelligence network that had been built inside the United States. The fact that a member of that network was involved in putting the continuity of government plan in action in the White House. The agent had sent other messages that were to a degree worrisome. But since those bits of information could not be confirmed he had not passed the information on to the General Secretary.
The information indicated that two members of the cabinet would be moving around in the rural areas of the Appalachian south and a section of what in a region called the intermountain south Oregon, Idaho and northern Nevada. Both areas were of a lower level for the risk of nuke strikes. But there were teams waiting to hunt these two groups down. In each case the attack would be made either just before or just after the strike. There was a third group their mission was to take out the hotel where two groups of government bureaucrats as well as two Cabinet members. In each case a suit case nuke would be used to take out the designated targets.
Other intelligence indicated that the Secretary of Defense would remain in the White House till the last possible minute. Then he would make one last effort to get Reagan to leave and if he failed, he would go to Andrews AFB and leave. A team of Spetsnaz personal armed with 9K38 would take the Air Force one as it took off.
Chebrikov was sure that Reagan once faced with the reality of the situation would leave. The Spetsnaz team would shoot Air Force One down and then they could take refuge in a bunker located at the site. They had a month’s supply of food. Now they had to see what would happen.
Washington DC Senator Kennedy stood before a group of reporters and he commented on the current situation. Stating that President Reagan was the reason that war was coming. It was his unreasoning attitude toward the Soviet Union that had caused the election of the new hardline General Secretary. He repeated his call for peace. The press rather dutifully asked a variety of questions but is was becoming apparent that Senator Kennedy’s ability to influence events was greatly reduced. But as one commentator stated, **Kennedy may not have much influence as of now but should the war go badly he would regain or even increase his influence due to his unbending resistance to fighting this war.**
Omaha NE Andrew Stiet walked into his house and he immediately went to the answering machine. He was happy to hear his wife’s voice telling him that had made it to the half way point she was still not happy about not being with him. But she did accept the decision, the hard decisions he had made someone would die but others would live. He would likely die during the war but he had done everything he so that his wife and children would live. Now they just had to make it to the family ranch once they did, he could relax a bit.
Hungary was in first place to be discussed, the southernmost division is the Hungarian Army 15th MRD it is the least combat ready of all the Hungarian Army divisions. But its mission will be to hold the frontline and make no advances since the terrain is adverse, to attacking units. The length of the line the division will hold is approximately eleven kilometers. The next section of the frontline will be covered by the 4TH MRD the part of frontline it covers is only eight kilometers with the 11th Tank division right behind. This will be the main thrust of the Hungarian Army. The north of this will be the 8th MRD to drive against the Austrian’s Army all four of these divisions form the 1st Hungarian Army. These units were to drive on Graz Austria.
The next section of the line will be covered by the 7th MRD the part of the line covered will be from just west of Jak Hungary to just east of Lockenhaus Austria. Covering about thirty-five kilometers of the front. Then the 9th MRD will cover the remaining forty kilometers from Lockenhaus running along the border to just south of Sopron Hungary a distance of some forty-five kilometers. The 2nd Hungarian Army controls these two divisions. The Hungarian Army will control approximately one hundred kilometers of the two-hundred-and-forty-kilometer border. The rest will be under the control of the Soviet Army.
There is one major problem the Italian 4th Corp has been committed the Steiermark Military Command four of its five brigades have been committed to that command. The Cadore brigade, Julia Brigade, the Orobica brigade and finally the Tridentina Brigade. The Austrian Army will have the 5th Jager Brigade as well as several Territorial Army regiments, 51st, 52nd, 53rd, 54th and 55th.
The 38th Combined Arms Army 17th, 70th, 128th, 275th and the 664th MRD as well as the 21st covering roughly fifty kilometers of the front. This army will be one of two prongs of the drive on Vienna. The other prong of this drive will be the 8th Tank Army the divisions are 18th 19th 30th Guard Tank Divisions, the 23rd and 50th Tank Division’s. Also, the 33rd and 93rd Guard MRD and the 23rd Assault Landing Brigade will be involved in the attack and this is the second prong of the attack on Vienna. The plan is to drive on Vienna and then the 38th Combined Arms Army will drive up the Danube river into northern Austria and into Bavaria. But first each army will have to breakthrough two very heavily fortified positions the 38th Combined Arms Army will have attack the Odin. While the 8th Army will be attacking Brucker Pforte neither fortification will be a walk over and there is the 1st Jager brigade for reinforcements and a battalion of light infantry will be setup in the mountains with the mission of attacking the 38th Combined Arms Army.
Then I have organized the 41st Combined Arms Army with the 62nd Tank division and the 168th and 251st MRD this force will cover the border with Yugoslavia. I did this because I feel that we cannot trust the Slovenes and Croatians to remain neutral and I worry that the Italian army could make its way through Slovenia and possibly Croatia to attack Hungary from the flank. By putting this force along the border, I am securing my flank. It was quite apparent to Field Marshall Orskov that the Commander of the Southwest Strategic Direction did not agree with his assessment of the lack of danger regarding Yugoslavia. But it was better than his current commander of the Western Direction who was not showing much in the way of initiative.
I have also taken the liberty of moving three divisions from the Battle order of the 1 Guards Army. The 52nd, 58th and 65th Tank Division to be used as the reserve force for the drive into Austria. I have designated this force as the 31st Tank Corp also the Stavka has sent the 40th Corp with the 43rd ,96th 213th MRD. Considering the recent movement of Italian Army divisions into Northern Austrian. Those divisions could come in useful for the drive on to Salzburg and then onto Munich. But the movement of these divisions will not be completed until at least a few days into the war. These division could also be used to attack into Yugoslavia and drive on the Italian border we can reinforce the Danube offensive and drive on the Italian border.
Now we will discuss the placement of Bulgarian Army. The 1ST Army had three division two the 1st and 3rd utilized the T-55’s and the 21st mostly had T-34/85’s except for one battalion of T-55’s. The setup was simple enough the 1st MRD would defend route 1 the western most highway on the Bulgarian Greek Front. While the 3rd MRD would defend Highway 19. With the 21st MRD would be held in reserve. This is where the American Armies 1st Corp with the 35th Mechanized infantry Division National Guard, the 7th Infantry Division Regular Army and the 26th Infantry Division National Guard. As well as the 9th Cavalry Brigade Regular Army and the 81st Mechanized Infantry Brigade National Guard. We do admit that this force could break through the defenses of the Bulgarian
1st Army.
The 2nd Army with two division the 2nd and the 17th MRD’s both use T-55’s except for one company of T-34/85’s in the 17th MRD. The 17TH will defend the area around Highway 37. While the 2nd MRD will defend the area around Highway 86. The Greek Army D Corp was split into two attack forces. The Greeks Armies 50th and 88th Infantry brigade and the 29th Infantry Regiment. These units will attack the 2nd MRD. The rest of D Corp the 12th and 16th Infantry division will concentrate on the 17th MRD.
The 3rd Army has three divisions two will be concentrated in the area around the cities of Mogilyane, Domishte and Sarovo. The 7th and 16th MRD both utilizing T-55’s with a few T-34’s. While the 18th MRD covering the left flank of the 3rd Army with the bulk of the division located in and around the Ivaylovgrad. This division has two battalion of T-55’s with the rest of the tanks being T-34’. A Corp with the 8th, 9th ,15th Infantry division Infantry are concentrating the 7th and 16th MRD’s. While the 11th division of C Corp will attack the 18th MRD. While the 10TH Infantry Division hold back our force as they invade Turkey.
At the same time the Greek Army had formed a new Armored Division the 30th Armored and with the 20th Armored and the 2nd Mechanized Infantry the new Corp is called the H Armored Corp. The Corp is located close to the Turkish border we feel that if our force breakthrough that Corp will be used to block the advance of our forces. But that would mean the Turks would have to ask for help from the Greek.
That comment brought a laughter from the members of the Politburo, they all knew that the two countries hated each other more than they hated the Soviet Union. Romanov commented that the truth was that the Turks would rather lose the war than ask for help from the Greeks. That comment gained a note of agreement.
Now holding the line between the division are reservists who will watch any road and or trail through the mountains are local reservist familiar with the mountains in their respective areas. Also, a reserve has been created using the Bulgarian Independent tank Brigades. The 9th and 13th Brigades which operate T-72’s, with the remaining three brigades the 5th ,11th and 24th Tank brigade operate T-55’s. These brigades will be the first units called upon to deal with any problems met by the Bulgarian army.
I have made some modification of the setup of our forces in the west of Bulgaria. The 32nd Corp with the 126th and 157th MRD’s will take up position around Sofia the capital of Bulgaria. There primary mission is to reinforce the 1st Bulgarian Army if the American 1st Corp succeeds in breaking though 1st Bulgarian Army. The two division previously assigned to Sofia the 28th and 92nd as well as the 159th MRD have been move to Turkish border to reinforce the attack against Turkey. I will talk more about these divisions later on in the briefing.
The 1st Guards Combined Army boundary will the 3rd Bulgarian Army. It will handle a section of the front from Orestias to approximately twenty kilometers east of where Highway 7 crosses the Turkish border. That will be a force of the 41st Guard Tank division and the 25th and 72nd Guard MRD and the 47th, 200th and 204th MRD’s as well as the 126th and 157th MRD’s. Also, the 39th, 40th, 57th and 58th Assault Landing Brigades This force will break open the Turkish lines and drive a wedge into the Turkish lines allowing the 6th Guards Tank Army to drive on Istanbul that forces will include the 17th, 22nd 42n, 75th Guards Tank division a force of over twelve hundred T-64’s.
The brought wave of smiles as the Politburo was now sure that the Turks were going to be defeated on the open battlefield. Then the Commander of the Southwest Strategic direction went over the last section of the Turkish frontlines a distance of approximately one hundred and fifty kilometers will be covered by several different Corps. The 34th Corp with the 82nd, 197th MRD and the 112th Guards Tank Division to be held in reserve will cover the first part of the line. The section of the line it will cover will be from boundary with the 1st Guards Combined Arms Army to Highway 99. The 82nd will be to the west and the 197th to the east. The 64th Corp will cover the remaining section of the line we have attached the 159th MRD to with the 36th and 46th. The 159th and 46th will be on the front of the line while the 36th MRD will be held in reserve.
Facing our forces is the Turkish 1st Army, the Turkish army has placed the two divisions of the 2nd Corp on a narrow front to deal with what they consider the most threatened section of the line. From Greek Turkish border just south of Edirne for a distance of thirty-five kilometers to just east of the town of Hanliyanice. The divisions are entrenched just behind this stream those division are the 4th and 8th Infantry division. Each of these divisions have two infantry brigades and one armored brigade. In reserve behind the line are two armored brigades the 1st and 3rd Armored brigades.
The 3rd Corp will cover the next section of the line From Hanliyanice to Omeroba the 2nd Infantry division but this divisions third brigade is a mechanized brigade. The 6th infantry division also has a mechanized brigade and will take control of the line from Omeroba to Develtliagac, then on to the town of Terzidere. In reserve will be the 33rd Infantry division this particular division third brigade is Armored. Next is the 5th Corp. The 23rd Infantry division has a mechanized brigade. The section of the line to be covered is from Develtliagac to Derekoy a distance of twenty kilometers. Then from Derekoy to Sarpdere the 28th Infantry division has been moved in from Cyprus to cover that section of the line. The 15th Corp covers the remainder of the line. From Sarpdere to Avcilar is covered by the 58th Infantry division a force that is exclusively an infantry division that is reinforced but made up of reservist troops. But this section of the line is very rugged wooded terrain so its weaknesses will not affect it as much. Finally, the Turkish army has created the 60th Infantry division made up of the 1st, 3rd, 5th Infantry brigades and the 58th Artillery brigade. This division cover the remaining twenty or so kilometers of the front from Avicilar to the coast. Behind the 58th and 60th infantry division is the 65th Infantry division as this Corps reserve force.
As for the remaining forces of the 1st army there is the newly created 10th Corp with the 3rd and 66th Mechanized infantry divisions and the 1st Armored division which is made up of mostly obsolete tanks. Also, there are several independents units the 2nd and 5th armored brigades, the 11th and 41st Infantry brigades and the 18th Armored regiments as well as two artillery brigades the 58th and 59th Artillery brigades.
Next, we look at the rear areas. Held in reserve will be the 12th Corp. This Corp will be used at the command decides. The divisions of this Corp the 14th Tank Division and the 9th, 113th and 156th MRD. While no one said a word, everyone knew that the Corp would be used against either the Turks or Romanians. No one trusted Ceausescu any further than they could throw the Kremlin.
Facing our forces are a group of infantry divisions backed up by two mechanized infantry division one armored division of most outdated tanks and a number of armored brigades and infantry brigades. Finally, a force of divisions will remain as a Front reserve the 168th,252nd, 257th and the 268th MRD also a group of category D division will remain in the Ukraine as part of that same force the 280th, 281st, 282nd ,283rd 284th, ,285th ,286th ,287th ,288th ,289th and the 290th divisions. Their mission will be to swiftly crush Romania if it becomes necessary. With that the briefing was over.
Lubyanka As Chairman of the KGB Victor Chebrikov was very proud of the intelligence network that had been built inside the United States. The fact that a member of that network was involved in putting the continuity of government plan in action in the White House. The agent had sent other messages that were to a degree worrisome. But since those bits of information could not be confirmed he had not passed the information on to the General Secretary.
The information indicated that two members of the cabinet would be moving around in the rural areas of the Appalachian south and a section of what in a region called the intermountain south Oregon, Idaho and northern Nevada. Both areas were of a lower level for the risk of nuke strikes. But there were teams waiting to hunt these two groups down. In each case the attack would be made either just before or just after the strike. There was a third group their mission was to take out the hotel where two groups of government bureaucrats as well as two Cabinet members. In each case a suit case nuke would be used to take out the designated targets.
Other intelligence indicated that the Secretary of Defense would remain in the White House till the last possible minute. Then he would make one last effort to get Reagan to leave and if he failed, he would go to Andrews AFB and leave. A team of Spetsnaz personal armed with 9K38 would take the Air Force one as it took off.
Chebrikov was sure that Reagan once faced with the reality of the situation would leave. The Spetsnaz team would shoot Air Force One down and then they could take refuge in a bunker located at the site. They had a month’s supply of food. Now they had to see what would happen.
Washington DC Senator Kennedy stood before a group of reporters and he commented on the current situation. Stating that President Reagan was the reason that war was coming. It was his unreasoning attitude toward the Soviet Union that had caused the election of the new hardline General Secretary. He repeated his call for peace. The press rather dutifully asked a variety of questions but is was becoming apparent that Senator Kennedy’s ability to influence events was greatly reduced. But as one commentator stated, **Kennedy may not have much influence as of now but should the war go badly he would regain or even increase his influence due to his unbending resistance to fighting this war.**
Omaha NE Andrew Stiet walked into his house and he immediately went to the answering machine. He was happy to hear his wife’s voice telling him that had made it to the half way point she was still not happy about not being with him. But she did accept the decision, the hard decisions he had made someone would die but others would live. He would likely die during the war but he had done everything he so that his wife and children would live. Now they just had to make it to the family ranch once they did, he could relax a bit.
Once again excellent work Farmer12, Really well written and just technical enough to understand. Now you dont have to answer this As the update is not too far away and spoil the surprise. But this Operation Looking glass? the surprise general Rodgers is cooking up are we thinking air ground attack or just move up all artillary units close to the bourder and blast away for half an hour or is there going to be a spoiling attack on the ground as well.
