So when working on a TL, I hit one major area where my own research has not come up to par. Slavery, and how long it would last/how would it change over the years if each state became it's own country, both with and without international pressure. I did a search, but wasn't able to find any good threads on the subject, though the "no civil war" threads/TL do shed a bit of light on it.
Slavery in a Disunited States of America
- Thread starter OAM47
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No multistate bodies? even in New England and the Chesapeake? Because 13 or more aloof and sovereign states is at least as improbable as one united nation.
That said, I think New York was the last northern state to ban slavery, in 1827.
Without a fugitive slave law, holding slaves in border states becomes extremely dicey. I would expect Maryland and Delaware to go free (assuming they're not part of Greater Virginia) in the 1830s.
Virginia's 1850 vote on emancipation failed by some ludicrously small portion, like 51-49 of the lower house. With a free north not returning slaves, that might tip the balance. Or it might not. If Kentucky (or more?) is still considered part of Virginia, I think emancipation definitely passes here.
Most of the South, 1880s. Slave-based cotton production becomes unprofitable in the 1860s, I'm assuming it takes a generation to die out. You'll find people who say slaves could be repurposed for other industries; I personally don't think that works.
South Carolina will probably have to be liberated by external force.
Does that get you started? Any specific questions or details on the TL so far?
That said, I think New York was the last northern state to ban slavery, in 1827.
Without a fugitive slave law, holding slaves in border states becomes extremely dicey. I would expect Maryland and Delaware to go free (assuming they're not part of Greater Virginia) in the 1830s.
Virginia's 1850 vote on emancipation failed by some ludicrously small portion, like 51-49 of the lower house. With a free north not returning slaves, that might tip the balance. Or it might not. If Kentucky (or more?) is still considered part of Virginia, I think emancipation definitely passes here.
Most of the South, 1880s. Slave-based cotton production becomes unprofitable in the 1860s, I'm assuming it takes a generation to die out. You'll find people who say slaves could be repurposed for other industries; I personally don't think that works.
South Carolina will probably have to be liberated by external force.
Does that get you started? Any specific questions or details on the TL so far?
There's some merging and splitting that goes on, just didn't think it'd be all that important. IIRC, by 1860 there are 8-9 countries instead of 13-14 (Vermont :\)
I did not realize that the North didn't ban slavery until that late, I figured it had always been that way. I'd been focusing on the South, so missed it
Virginia is an interesting question. Yes, it will include Kentucky, and it will be heavily entrenched with both Pennsylvania and New York diplomatically, so they'll definitely be putting the pressure on. My main concern is what happens to the former slaves after such an emancipation.
As for the deeper South, there's two issues I'm having. First, how much call in the North would there be for something to be done about it. No matter how strong abolishionists get, invading another soverign state is a good deal more serious then doing something about slavery within your own borders. Secondly, because of all the changes, settlement and immigration will be different, of course. Georgia (including more land, of course), in particular, is going to have quite a few more people then OTL. I assume with a larger, non-wealthy white population there's going to be some effects there as well.
I did not realize that the North didn't ban slavery until that late, I figured it had always been that way. I'd been focusing on the South, so missed it
Virginia is an interesting question. Yes, it will include Kentucky, and it will be heavily entrenched with both Pennsylvania and New York diplomatically, so they'll definitely be putting the pressure on. My main concern is what happens to the former slaves after such an emancipation.
As for the deeper South, there's two issues I'm having. First, how much call in the North would there be for something to be done about it. No matter how strong abolishionists get, invading another soverign state is a good deal more serious then doing something about slavery within your own borders. Secondly, because of all the changes, settlement and immigration will be different, of course. Georgia (including more land, of course), in particular, is going to have quite a few more people then OTL. I assume with a larger, non-wealthy white population there's going to be some effects there as well.
I am assuming the ARW went as OTL - with the AoC not being adopted in 1781.
Georgia will be Interesting -- It was a free State up till the 1750's, And lots of the Western Settlers disliked legalizing Slavery,
And if Spain holds Florida, there will be a lot of escaping Slaves fleeing over the Southern Border.
Also the Greek Indian Wars in the 1800 -1814, had the Indians beating the Georgia Militia. It wasn't till Jackson arrived with His Kentucky & Tennessee Militias, that Georgia won.
There will be NO Trail of Tears ITTL, with major butterflies in Georgia and the Carolinas,
In fact all the Indian Wars will be Butterflied.
Georgia will be Interesting -- It was a free State up till the 1750's, And lots of the Western Settlers disliked legalizing Slavery,
And if Spain holds Florida, there will be a lot of escaping Slaves fleeing over the Southern Border.
Also the Greek Indian Wars in the 1800 -1814, had the Indians beating the Georgia Militia. It wasn't till Jackson arrived with His Kentucky & Tennessee Militias, that Georgia won.
There will be NO Trail of Tears ITTL, with major butterflies in Georgia and the Carolinas,
In fact all the Indian Wars will be Butterflied.
The AoC happens, but the Constitutional Convetion fails, and the states eventually dissolve the union with little conflict.
That's interesting about Georgia. I don't know very much about it, in all honesty, but it's going to be a very important aspect. The Western Settlers were who I had in mind when thinking about what the increased immigrent presence would effect. There's a few things here that give me alot to think about with events before slavery that I can now write better because of it.
My timeline, America the Fallen, will cover this exact topic. I tend to think that slavery would end sooner. Without as free of exchange of technology that the United States had, technologies like the cotton gin wouldn't spread as fast and slavery would become quite unprofitable quite quickly.
