Wavell couldn't possibly be thinking O'Conner might channel his inner Guderian, could he?
Sir John Valentine Carden survives.
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They were reading the Black code between Sept 41 and July 42
In his defence Col. Bonner Fellers did tell his 'masters' in Washington that he suspected that the code was no longer secure in Feb 42 but they told him it was still secure.
Also his doom and gloom reports convinced Rommel that the British would break hence is all or nothing assault at 1st El Alemain despite his force clearly lacking the logistics and strength for such an attack.
But yes it did really hurt the British forces in North Africa and many of the Med operations.
And Rommels 621st Radio Intercept unit was so good and British Op Sec so poor during 41 and early 42 that there was times during some battles that Rommel had a better real time understanding of the fortes and foibles of the British forces than the British commanders did.
As I have said before it takes 3 years to create a continental army that is competent at modern warfare and so it proved with the British army and their Op Sec was getting better throughout 42 as more and more of the officers and men became fully trained and competent at their jobs and by early 42 codewords were changed more frequently and sometimes units swapped radiomen and call signs to further confuse the Germans (who even back then could tell the difference between individual RTOs attached to certain units) - and the icing on the cake came when the Radio Intercepts forward deployed units were overrun on the night of the 10th July 1942 with their CO Maj Seebohm KIA and the units highly experienced radio intercept specialists decimated. Vitally the units data and logs which were captured made it very clear where the 8th Army was leaking data and within weeks the 8th Army had gone from reasonable Op Sec to arguably the worlds best.
So in the space of a few weeks during July 42 Rommel was rendered blind - robbed of both the 'good source' and his Elite Radio Intercept unit while British Op Sec took the art to a new level.
Rommel seemed to stop winning battles after that!
And of course the 25pdr was a fairly decent anti tank gun throughout the desert campaign.
In Gordon Corrigan's rather scathing book on British WW2 operations Blood, Sweat and Arrogance: The Myths of Churchill's War he asks the same question noting that on several occasions at Trobruk the 3.7 AAA guns made short work of German and Italian tanks. He notes that having asked this question of Royal Artillery officers "Why was the gun not used more often in the AT role like the 88 was?", they answer him using lots of long words, technical explanations, graphs and slide rules "and still I wonder" he writes in the 'margin'
I think it had something to do with the gun not intended to be fired at a low angle, optimised for high angle work and early war they were fairly low in number and usually held back behind the lines - so rarely found themselves pressed into the role of poking holes in tanks.
They were also a lot heavier than the 88 so would have been slower getting into position to engage any tanks
By the time their numbers had risen (mid 1942) sufficient numbers of 6 pounders and later on 17 pounders made it very unlikely that the AAA units would have to be pressed into service as AT guns.
And before this the 2 pounder was sufficient verses most German and Italian AFVs
The '88' conversely was often pressed into service as the early principle AT gun in the Heer the 37mm was found wanting against some of the better armoured tanks in the French, British and Russian armies and only the 88 and heavier artillery guns could reliably stop those tanks.
Matilda was a duck (I think Scrooge McDuck's niece), the Master General of Ordnance of the time thought the small A11 looked and waddled like a duck and that's where the name came from.
Not quite as martial as Churchill or Cromwell
The back behind the lines protecting areas of strategic importance is probably the main one. Kinda hard to take out a Panzer near Tobruk if the gun is parked next to Suez. Also all the accouterments then 3.7" came with such as automated fuse setters and fire control gubbins meant that there was an awful lot more gun and weight to lug around to try and fight tanks.
The 88mm was a versatile weapon but lacking as a specialised one. The 3.7" on the other hand was an excellent AA gun and far better than the 88mm but that meant it lacked versatility.
Well you do have 30 A11s nearly up for retirement, so that's the possibility of a few being available. Still, it'd be a lot of work for very few vehicles.
Why bother? The German armour isn't nearly as impenetrable to the 2-pounder as the British armour is to the German guns. And yes, the Germans are moving to face-hardened armour, but the British have guessed that, and so by the time the Germans are prepared, will hopefully be ready for it.
Matilda was a duck (I think Scrooge McDuck's niece), the Master General of Ordnance of the time thought the small A11 looked and waddled like a duck and that's where the name came from.
Not quite as martial as Churchill or Cromwell
I don't know Empress Matilda fought a long and bloody civil war against the usurper King Stephan for the throne of England. Arguably she ultimately won as her son Henry II inherited the crown on Stephan's death.
The A11's are being sent to Crete, they are going to save Crete, then they get nicknamed Valkyries and are sent to help guard Singapore. The last act of the glorious A11 shall be leading the counterattack that prevents the fall of Singapore whilst gramophones are strapped to the side of them blaring Ride of the Valkyries
Don't you dare suggest any other outcome is possible.
Yes the A11 is my favourite tank in this timeline. (until the Victor comes along with its super 3" gun @allanpcameron
)
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The Little Tank That Could. Coming soon to a Commando or Battle Comic near you.
Ramp-Rat
Monthly Donor
A few thoughts about the Luftwaffe in the Mediterranean ITTL.
First and foremost, the Mediterranean theatre will once the invasion of the Soviet Union starts take second place to the Luftwaffe in the eaAnd then third place once the Americans get into the war and start their daylight bombing campaign. In addition just like the Luftwaffe in the east and west, it is always going to be short of fuel. And like the Luftwaffe generally, the failure to rotate its pilots, and provide them with the rest they need, will see a gradual decrease in their abilities, remember this isn’t the east, the allied pilots will be fresher and their aircraft newer as time passes. The present low in the DAF, is due to the Battle of Britain, which has had first priority on fighters and the stubborn focus of British bomber command on bombing Germany. The DAF, up until any Japanese involvement in the war is only going to get stronger month by month. And even after any Japanese involvement, will still gain strength, just at a slower rate.
The Luftwaffe with its strained resources has a multitude of tasks, and has to make some difficult decisions as to which to prioritise. At first the priority is going to be attempting to knock Malta out of the war, that is until the German Army has boots on the ground in North Africa. Once the German Army is in North Africa, then supporting the Army and defending its major supply port Tripoli becomes the number one task. And now we get to the what if bit, as there are two major what ifs to consider, first and foremost is if the British prevent a German advance towards Benghazi, and keep control over the port. The second is, after a successful invasion of Greece, the British foil the invasion of Crete, and retain control of the Island. If the British retain control of Benghazi, this will bring major advantages for the British. They can now provide air cover for their convoys to Malta, without having to organise a major fleet campaign including their precious Aircraft Carriers. They can also provide reenforcement aircraft without having to risk their Aircraft Carriers, as even fighters can manage the hop from Benghazi to Malta. Bomber Aircraft flying from forward bases in Benghazi, can carry out a program of attacks on the principle supply port for the Germans Tripoli. Including the dropping of mines in the approaches to the harbour, causing the week Italian navy to carry out mine sweeping, and delaying any convoy.
If as is likely the British retain control of Crete, the Germans will have to expend significant resources in suppressing the Island. Remember the principal reason for the invasion of Greece, was to prevent the British from establishing bomber airfields in Greece, and bombing the Romanian oil fields. With Crete available the British will eventually be able to bomb the oil fields, for whatever good it will do. Which given the general inability of British bombers in 1941 to hit the right city in Germany, will be very little. However just the ability will force the Germans to divert resources from their campaign in Russia, to the defence of the oil fields. Then there is the affect that control of Crete has on any German attempts to close the Suez Canal, by launching attacks from Rhodes. I don’t know what the availability and condition of any airfields in Rhodes was in 1941, but I will take a guess, and say very poor. So the Germans have to build an airbase or two, on an island with little local resources. And from there launch an attack, flying a very long overseas leg, against a defended target, at night, in the hope of parachuting a mine into the canal. IOTL. they tried this on a few occasions, with indifferent results. And unlike IOTL, the British will be from their bases in Crete, bombing the German bases in Rhodes. All in all, if the British retain control of Benghazi and Crete, the Luftwaffe is in for a world of hurt, and events ITTL, are going to take a major division from those IOTL.
RR.
First and foremost, the Mediterranean theatre will once the invasion of the Soviet Union starts take second place to the Luftwaffe in the eaAnd then third place once the Americans get into the war and start their daylight bombing campaign. In addition just like the Luftwaffe in the east and west, it is always going to be short of fuel. And like the Luftwaffe generally, the failure to rotate its pilots, and provide them with the rest they need, will see a gradual decrease in their abilities, remember this isn’t the east, the allied pilots will be fresher and their aircraft newer as time passes. The present low in the DAF, is due to the Battle of Britain, which has had first priority on fighters and the stubborn focus of British bomber command on bombing Germany. The DAF, up until any Japanese involvement in the war is only going to get stronger month by month. And even after any Japanese involvement, will still gain strength, just at a slower rate.
The Luftwaffe with its strained resources has a multitude of tasks, and has to make some difficult decisions as to which to prioritise. At first the priority is going to be attempting to knock Malta out of the war, that is until the German Army has boots on the ground in North Africa. Once the German Army is in North Africa, then supporting the Army and defending its major supply port Tripoli becomes the number one task. And now we get to the what if bit, as there are two major what ifs to consider, first and foremost is if the British prevent a German advance towards Benghazi, and keep control over the port. The second is, after a successful invasion of Greece, the British foil the invasion of Crete, and retain control of the Island. If the British retain control of Benghazi, this will bring major advantages for the British. They can now provide air cover for their convoys to Malta, without having to organise a major fleet campaign including their precious Aircraft Carriers. They can also provide reenforcement aircraft without having to risk their Aircraft Carriers, as even fighters can manage the hop from Benghazi to Malta. Bomber Aircraft flying from forward bases in Benghazi, can carry out a program of attacks on the principle supply port for the Germans Tripoli. Including the dropping of mines in the approaches to the harbour, causing the week Italian navy to carry out mine sweeping, and delaying any convoy.
If as is likely the British retain control of Crete, the Germans will have to expend significant resources in suppressing the Island. Remember the principal reason for the invasion of Greece, was to prevent the British from establishing bomber airfields in Greece, and bombing the Romanian oil fields. With Crete available the British will eventually be able to bomb the oil fields, for whatever good it will do. Which given the general inability of British bombers in 1941 to hit the right city in Germany, will be very little. However just the ability will force the Germans to divert resources from their campaign in Russia, to the defence of the oil fields. Then there is the affect that control of Crete has on any German attempts to close the Suez Canal, by launching attacks from Rhodes. I don’t know what the availability and condition of any airfields in Rhodes was in 1941, but I will take a guess, and say very poor. So the Germans have to build an airbase or two, on an island with little local resources. And from there launch an attack, flying a very long overseas leg, against a defended target, at night, in the hope of parachuting a mine into the canal. IOTL. they tried this on a few occasions, with indifferent results. And unlike IOTL, the British will be from their bases in Crete, bombing the German bases in Rhodes. All in all, if the British retain control of Benghazi and Crete, the Luftwaffe is in for a world of hurt, and events ITTL, are going to take a major division from those IOTL.
RR.
Congrats on the Turtledove @allanpcameron - a well-deserved award for a fine writer.
COW gun on a tank we'll call the "Vulva"...checks both the "V" name box and the male/female version distinction...I like it
As an ole COMINT guy, it does my heart good to read a post like yours...
allanpcameron
Donor
I do wonder if his chastening experience at Arras ITTL will have a salutatory effect on him?
This is a very good assessment, but you already knew that.
Actually that is one of the things that didn't happen at TTL Arras. I've been wondering about what will happen if and when they do.
Actually end of March before the main battle at Mersa Brega. So nearer 8 or 9 weeks. Oh yes, just about the same time as Wavell has penciled in for the next phase of the operation to clear the Italians out of North Africa. Hmmm...I wonder what the consequences of that might be.
I was just reading that the first Panzer IIIs sent to Tripoli mostly weren't up-armoured, though they did have the 50mm gun. So the 2-pdr is still effective, and the Valiant's armour against the 50mm? Be interesting.
The 3.7-inch gun as @Cryhavoc101 mentions were used, and did have the sights etc to do it, but as you mentioned, there weren't enough of them and none of them should have been quite so close to the front line.
Little old wine drinker me.Dragon minions work for coffee.
How's your coffee supply?
I do wonder, seriously, about the difference in your TL about the way the British are going to be much more confident about their tanks. Guderian and his cronies, especially after Poland, thought of themselves as The Elite. So he had a swagger about what he could do. O'Connor, didn't rate Creagh's tankers much at all. The fact the Italians kept withdrawing during the night while the Hussars had supper, drove him up the wall a couple of times. He makes the exception of 11th Hussars in their armoured cars, those he rated, but not the two armoured brigades as much. The Matilda IIs were probably his best tank unit, as Sidi Barrani, Bardia and Tobruk proved. So I'm not sure O'Connor would channel his inner Panzer Commander. It was his modern Infantry Divisions with their integral transport, plus the RASC that really won Operation Compass. The tanks of 7th Armoured Division played a lesser role. That's my reading of it anyway.
One of the things that I am terribly conscious of is the way in which it is too easy to improve British competence at the stroke of keyboard (easier to say pen?). For example, I was just writing the update about the arrival of the Matilda IIs in Sudan. OTL when they unloaded the 15 tons of spares they'd brought along, they were all for Mark VI light tanks! It beggars belief sometimes that the British managed to hang on at all during the war. Muddling through and making up as they went along, scrounging whatever they could. It kind of seems the feats of British arms is more good luck than happenstance.
True, must remember that.
Thanks, now I have another book to read! My Christmas Amazon vouchers are well and truly spent!
Wee bit of a myth that one. In Carden's original drawing, (photo of page from David Fletcher's Meachanised Force) he had Matilda written on it as its company code name. Good story but, unfortunately not the case. Don't get me started on why the Valentine was called the Valentine!Matilda was a duck (I think Scrooge McDuck's niece), the Master General of Ordnance of the time thought the small A11 looked and waddled like a duck and that's where the name came from.
Not quite as martial as Churchill or Cromwell
View attachment 631977
Not sure if everybody would agree with that assessment.
No, thank you. Still trying to think of a way of getting Ship Shape a prize. I'd probably need to rewrite it as a Self-Insert, which is the way ASB seems to be going now. Or is that just bitchy?
Hopefully.
Every day is a school day.
Oi! Who's writing this?
Was raised on Commando books, Warlord was another favourite. But now I am aging myself.
Hopefully all this will save me some time in the morning!
Allan
Some extra thoughts on the benefits of keeping Crete for the British.
As @Ramp-Rat mentions above, if Britain keeps Crete ITTL then the Luftwaffe will need to supress the island as much as possible or Britain will be able to base bombers that will attack Ploesti, they might even hit Romania doing that. The thing is Britain does not need to base bombers on the Island to force action from the Luftwaffe, fighters based on Crete are a benefit all their own. Firstly it makes the attempts by the Luftwaffe to suppress the island costly but it also means that they cant ignore the island either. If they do then Bomber bases get set up along with more fighters and it becomes too costly to attack beyond a major offensive, an offensive the Luftwaffe wont have the planes for once Barbarossa starts. It essentially becomes a mini BoB where British Pilots land on or near friendly territory if they ae forced to bail out whereas the German pilots are bailing out/landing in enemy territory.
That likely has a knock on affect on North Africa. The ultimate arbiter of power in Nazi Germany and his priorities set the priorities for the armed forces. The first priority for Hitler very soon will be the Soviet union, that is going to absorb the majority of the Luftwaffe's forces. The next highest priority though will likely be Crete, the Romanian oil fields are key to Germany so they must be defended. That means that North Africa and supporting the Afrika Korps is relegated to at best 3rd place.
As @Ramp-Rat mentions above, if Britain keeps Crete ITTL then the Luftwaffe will need to supress the island as much as possible or Britain will be able to base bombers that will attack Ploesti, they might even hit Romania doing that. The thing is Britain does not need to base bombers on the Island to force action from the Luftwaffe, fighters based on Crete are a benefit all their own. Firstly it makes the attempts by the Luftwaffe to suppress the island costly but it also means that they cant ignore the island either. If they do then Bomber bases get set up along with more fighters and it becomes too costly to attack beyond a major offensive, an offensive the Luftwaffe wont have the planes for once Barbarossa starts. It essentially becomes a mini BoB where British Pilots land on or near friendly territory if they ae forced to bail out whereas the German pilots are bailing out/landing in enemy territory.
That likely has a knock on affect on North Africa. The ultimate arbiter of power in Nazi Germany and his priorities set the priorities for the armed forces. The first priority for Hitler very soon will be the Soviet union, that is going to absorb the majority of the Luftwaffe's forces. The next highest priority though will likely be Crete, the Romanian oil fields are key to Germany so they must be defended. That means that North Africa and supporting the Afrika Korps is relegated to at best 3rd place.
That name would last for however long it takes Queen Elizabeth or Queen Mary to get Churchill on the phone after they find out about it.
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