Sino-Soviet Alliance in an earlier WW2, w/out Stalin?

The question is twofold but the latter leads into the former: WI, instead of Stalin, it was Zinov'ev and/or Kamyenyev who rise to power, saving the USSR from the formers' purges, tyranny, &c.; could Kamyenyev and/or Zinov'ev then be able to, or willing to, fight the fascist Imperial Japanese and Nazi Germany before the OTL WWII broke out in Europe, in a two front war?

If the Soviets used Hitler's Remilitarization of Rhineland, coupled with the Nazi Government's appalling treatment of anyone who wasn't an "Aryan" in their now expanding domain (not to mention the Western Allies' complete lack of action against the Nazis, or the Fascist Italians in Ethiopia, or the Imperial Japanese in their growing territory in the Pacific), as justification for an invasion of Germany, would France, the USA or the UK do anything substantial, or even be able to?

As for where the Chinese come in, they were, and are, a very large country with incredible potential, yet they were too far behind to stop the Empire of Japan on their own. The Soviets would want, probably even need, an ally, or at least a pacified buffer, in East Asia for several reasons: They would want to relive direct pressure on themselves in Siberia, which China could certainly help with with its immense population; they could tip the scales in the post-war world in their favour with much greater ease than in OTL with a friendly China; and China's eventual rise to a world power would in any case be inevitable, so they would want them to at least be on cordial terms with the USSR. Most crucially, perhaps, is that the Chinese could, as in OTL, eventually have a Communist revolution of their own, and, given a more successful, powerful, popular and better USSR (one without Stalin), it could much more likely avoid the Sino-Soviet Split.

China could also benefit from the Soviets: It desperately needed to modernize, and not just its military. While the USA and the UK did provide some aid to the Chinese during WWII (as did the Nazis for a time), to be honest this was remarkably and irrationally limited, IMHO frankly because most of the West was an extremely racist cultural area then (they refused to even treat their WWI allies, the Japanese, fairly as equals during the Paris Peace Conference or in the League of Nations, for example, clearly due to racism); unlike the other Western powers, the Soviets were explicitly anti-racist, and their basic ideology, Communism, had growing support among the oppressed colonized peoples of the world: Therefore, it seems China's natural ally would have been the USSR, and visa versa.

Thoughts?
 
The KMT has got to change too.

During that time period was when Chang Kai-Shek rose to power within the KMT and threw out the communist as well getting the leftists lead by Sun-Yat Sen's heir apparent Wen Jingwei (who was aided by the Soviets) to join him by fait accompli (accomplished fact) after militarily outmaneuvering them. Somehow the tables would have to be turned from OTL without further shattering the central government at the time.
 
A lot depends on what Soviet union looks like. Stalin's industrialisation program was brutal but it did turn SU into industrial powerhouse. Can this not-Stalin achieve same levels? While they benefit from planned economy to push economy in direction they want would they be willing to pay the price.

If SU is lagging behind in industrial output I don't think they'd be willing to embark on foreign adventures.

And that also doesn't take into account foreign policy outlook. stalin was socialism-in-one-country type of person, if somebody else tries to export communism to Europe it will just piss off enough people to make SU even bigger pariah and others willing to tolerate german BS if it's directed toward SU.
 
A lot depends on what Soviet union looks like. Stalin's industrialisation program was brutal but it did turn SU into industrial powerhouse. Can this not-Stalin achieve same levels? While they benefit from planned economy to push economy in direction they want would they be willing to pay the price.

If SU is lagging behind in industrial output I don't think they'd be willing to embark on foreign adventures.

And that also doesn't take into account foreign policy outlook. stalin was socialism-in-one-country type of person, if somebody else tries to export communism to Europe it will just piss off enough people to make SU even bigger pariah and others willing to tolerate german BS if it's directed toward SU.
I certainly believe the USSR would industrialize as fast, if not faster, without Stalin, given greater freedoms and lack of much of the economic inefficiencies of totalitarian Stalinism, such as: Stalinism's excessive focus on heavy industry; its support of absurd dogmas like Lysenkoism; its fixation on propaganda value and paranoid obsession with control over economic development and solving real problems; &c..

Similarly for the Red Army: No Great Purge means the Red Army continues to be a world leader in innovation and the survival of the USSR's best generals - along with the totalitarian inefficiencies of Stalinism, makes the USSR far better equipped for WWII than in OTL.

Furthermore, nothing comparable to the destructive atrocities Great Purge, the Holodomor, and so on would be likely; of course there would be some appalling acts and deeds, but remember that the US at the time had Jim Crow, the KKK and was soon to put Japanese-Americans in "internment camps"; Britain still ruled India; and Germany of course was Nazi.

@Ziomatrix: Excellent point I spaced on :eek: about the KMT. So, for this this hypothetical WWII Sino-Soviet Alliance to work from the Chinese side, I believe it is essential that Chen Duxiu and later probably also Mao receive far greater support from the USSR as early as possible (and that Chen and Mao cooperate together, which I think would be possible given the ATL's circumstances). I don't think Wang Jingwei is a good choice, at least for long, being that in OTL he turned into an Anti-Communist and a fascist collaborator; nonetheless, if Wang hadn't gone to Europe, things could have turned out quite differently anyway.
 
Not Good Choice, Just Most Likely IMO

I don't think Wang Jingwei is a good choice, at least for long, being that in OTL he turned into an Anti-Communist and a fascist collaborator; nonetheless, if Wang hadn't gone to Europe, things could have turned out quite differently anyway.

Of course absolute rule under Wang Jingwei wouldn't be a good choice as far as securing better relations with the USSR let alone making Chen and Mao secure within the KMT. But the situation I am referring to is one where Wang and Chiang are still struggling for power but within a house that is still standing, which would force Wang to be a bit more pragmatic and open about expanding his support base regardless of personal opinions.
 
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