TBH, I haven’t entirely decided which direction I want to go on nukes ITTL. There was a chance they’d never be invented even OTL, after all.
One of the greatest ironies of all time is that Nuclear Weapons, the most destructive weapon that mankind has ever invented (So Far) has brought a era of peace never seen before in human history.

Unrelated Question: Will the UN/LON exist in the Cincoverse?
 
TBH, I haven’t entirely decided which direction I want to go on nukes ITTL. There was a chance they’d never be invented even OTL, after all.
Not sure I agree. Nuclear physics will advance, even if slower, and even before WW2 there were some that held that it was theoretically possible. Yes, with WW2 tech it's ridiculously expensive and only a few countries could afford it, but once civil applications are widespread the technical limitations are much less.

I'd also argue that a world whose first contact with Nuclear power is power generations is way more likely to embrace nuclear energy France-style than OTL, where the first occasion in which people heard "nuclear" was in the context of a city being glassed, and where the threat of nuclear apocalypse hung over a couple generations during the Cold War.
 
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what did sanjay ghandi do?
IRL he crashed his plane (or his plane was “crashed” for him if you follow my meaning) before he could do any real damage.
also who did franz ferdinand have any sons who can inhererit or is karl still the heir
He’s got sons, with his Saxon wife
One of the greatest ironies of all time is that Nuclear Weapons, the most destructive weapon that mankind has ever invented (So Far) has brought a era of peace never seen before in human history.

Unrelated Question: Will the UN/LON exist in the Cincoverse?
That I haven’t totally decided. My instinct is yes, but that bodies like the Commonwealth, OAS, etc are probably more immediately impactful.
Not sure I agree. Nuclear physics will advance, even if slower, and even before WW2 there were some that held that it was theoretically possible. Yes, with WW2 tech it's ridiculously expensive and only a few countries could afford it, but once civil applications are widespread the technical limitations are much less.

I'd also argue that a world whose first contact with Nuclear power is power generations is way more likely to embrace nuclear energy France-style than OTL, where the first occasion in which people heard "nuclear" was in the context of a city being glassed, and where the threat of nuclear apocalypse hung over a couple generations during the Cold War.
Yeah, I’d guess since the early 1990s TTL about 50-55% of power is generated from atomic sources; probably a higher ratio in much of the industrial world. The US ironically probably is around the average rate though what with prodigious coal/NG deposits and the hydropower revolution of the 1930-50 period, and Canada even moreso.

That’s what makes me lean in favor of nuclear weapons being developed eventually, albeit later than we’d see familiar. Probably gets way less money thrown at it, with more tactical nuke rather than strategic deployment
 
Probably gets way less money thrown at it, with more tactical nuke rather than strategic deployment
Not sure that works, cause Mutually Assured Destruction is inherently tied to the existence of weapons of such power. Having an oversized tactical bomb is not nearly as important as your enemy being able to threaten to glass up your capital just cause they can. IMO countries developing strategic nuclear capacity as deterrence is inevitable, cause any other path is trusting the others way too much.
 
Not sure that works, cause Mutually Assured Destruction is inherently tied to the existence of weapons of such power. Having an oversized tactical bomb is not nearly as important as your enemy being able to threaten to glass up your capital just cause they can. IMO countries developing strategic nuclear capacity as deterrence is inevitable, cause any other path is trusting the others way too much.
A very good point
 
what did sanjay ghandi do?
Was the son of Indira Gandhi.
He was the main mastermind behind 1975 to 1977 Indian National Emergency. Displaced thousands in Delhi Slums by destroying them and conducted random sterilizations without having any constitutional position.
Had total control over brodcast ministry.
Died in Helicopter crash in 1980 after being elected only for few months.
King Sweden made him look like a saint in his response. Gave a more broader outlook on the man.
 
King Sweden made him look like a saint in his response.
Though he added that he was not able to do any real damage (as I feel like once he inevitably got power after her mother dies, situation would have been even worse, as I can see more random sterilisations, and more extreme levels of abuse of power.)
 
Maybe Spain too.

Spain does not need nuclear weapons!
They have:
sddefault.jpg


Randy
 
TBH, I haven’t entirely decided which direction I want to go on nukes ITTL. There was a chance they’d never be invented even OTL, after all.

But if I do do nukes. This is probably what the list would look like. Maybe Argentina and Iran, too.

Indeed. The plan is United India, without any immediate Pakistan equivalent.

Saving that psychopath for BCM, since the Gandhi-Nehru dynasty won’t play much (if any) role in this alt-India
We haven‘t heard from Hawaii in a while,would you mind updating?
 
IRL he crashed his plane (or his plane was “crashed” for him if you follow my meaning) before he could do any real damage.

He’s got sons, with his Saxon wife

That I haven’t totally decided. My instinct is yes, but that bodies like the Commonwealth, OAS, etc are probably more immediately impactful.

Yeah, I’d guess since the early 1990s TTL about 50-55% of power is generated from atomic sources; probably a higher ratio in much of the industrial world. The US ironically probably is around the average rate though what with prodigious coal/NG deposits and the hydropower revolution of the 1930-50 period, and Canada even moreso.

That’s what makes me lean in favor of nuclear weapons being developed eventually, albeit later than we’d see familiar. Probably gets way less money thrown at it, with more tactical nuke rather than strategic deployment
Prodigious is an understatement here, Pennsylvania as a separate country would be in the top 15 countries in the world in coal production. As a note given that this is the 1920s and the world runs on coal, that is one of the products that can be exported to help bring the CSA back. Additionally, most of the South American Coal is in Peru. Now this timeline's Integralist Brazil may be more likely to develop/look under the Amazon Basin and might find more, but I doubt it. So one question is where are Brazil and Argentina getting their energy. (Mexico almost as a guarantee will be doing better with its oil than it did iotl and Mexico does have *some* coal.)

And China with its large coal amounts may not be in a condition to use it until later in this time line.
 
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Was the son of Indira Gandhi.
He was the main mastermind behind 1975 to 1977 Indian National Emergency. Displaced thousands in Delhi Slums by destroying them and conducted random sterilizations without having any constitutional position.
Had total control over brodcast ministry.
Died in Helicopter crash in 1980 after being elected only for few months.
King Sweden made him look like a saint in his response. Gave a more broader outlook on the man.
Oh a huge bastard, especially compared to even his mom and certainly Rahul. But a PM Sanjay would have been…. *shudders*
We haven‘t heard from Hawaii in a while,would you mind updating?
I’ve got a Hawaii update planned for 1920
So a Pakistan style secessonist movement later on?
While I think sectarian tensions are unavoidable, to his credit Bose was not a Hindu nationalist so a true secessionist movement prob starts small
 
Thinking on the 1920 election,

We know Frank Lowden is going to be the hapless Liberal, he straddles the old-guard/moderate line, is amendable to both Eastern finance and Midwestern/Western agriculture, a perfectly fine candidate in normal times after four years of Root he's going to be on the wrong end of a landslide.

It also means every Democrat and their mother is going to be running for the 1920s nomination, and we also know that after three runs of Hearst and another of McClellan, New York's Democrats have had their time in the sun, but if Democrats can't get NY's 63 EVs, they'll at least have to get Ohio's 32. So the party's candidate needs to run strongly in the Midwest.

Logically that would means the next nominee would be steered to either the number 2 man on McClellan's ticket, the Senator from Ohio, Newton D. Baker or the state's Governor James M. Cox. Baker is the well-spoken protege of Hearst's old Veep Tom Johnson, a Georgist, and a progressive in the Jeffersonian mold. OTL the much talked about stop-FDR candidate at the 1932 DNC, here he's the logical pick for a Democratic convention, as an eloquent orator from a key swing state, who's broadly amendable to the party at large (his support for the LoN which brought him Bill Hearst's ire OTL is presumably a non-issue here). What's stopping him from becoming the runaway front-runner is a historic disinterest in the job, which keeps him from becoming an overwhelming favorite and may lead to him pre-emptively withdrawing in favor of...

Governor James M. Cox, the OTL Democratic nominee in 1920. Fan of labor, progressives, Americanization, and Roosevelt. He shares much the same niche as Newton Baker but has shown greater interest in the Presidency. As a proven vote-getter in the Buckeye state that makes him both an attractive candidate and a broadly amenable figure to the ex-Populists in the Heartland, the Tammanies in the East, and the Progressives in between and out West.

Outside of the two Ohio men, there's the Plains/the Heartland/Flyover country, hater of monopoly, and railroad companies, lovers of farmers, farm subsidies, and price supports. Home to the ex-Populists of the Weaver-Bryanite tradition, bad blood from Bryan's role in attempting to usurp the man from the Empire State in 12' and in keeping the White House from Adlai the 1st in 00' likely going to prove as much of an obstacle to one of their candidates winning the nomination as much as their fear of and rivalry with the Tammanies out east.

Gilbert Hitchcock, Senator from Nebraska, and Bryan's old protege is likely to make a go of it, running firmly in the Populist tradition of the Boy Orator, he may be joined by Senator Thomas Walsh, Montana's Catholic Senator, who's ties with Labor, Progressives, and Suffragists, would make him a very attractive candidate if he came from state that could call upon more then 5 electoral votes. Their showing on the balloting will be there, but their path to the nomination is narrow enough without the Democrats from the Empire State distracted by internal feuding.

Champ Clark, is also likely to make a go of it, as Speaker of the House and one of the grand old men in the Democratic Party. Mostly acceptable to all it's wings, he runs into the problem of being 70 when the Democratic National Convention meets to select it's nominee and with a party filled with young blood itching to move forward past the Hearst and Hughes and Root years, I think his political half-life has passed him by.

Otherwise there's probably James Gerard as Tammany's favorite son. New Yorker's have had four bites of the apple, they aren't getting a 5th. Plus a broad smattering of favorite sons, including the Sinophobic Senators from the Pacific, and representatives of the Eastern states which are not the Empire state. Plus one or two men on horseback hoping that a chest full of stars will be a ticket to Lemon Hill and the Square Kilometer.

I'd be surprised if the party's next nominee and by extension the next President comes from outside the Buckeye state, I'd be very surprised if they came from outside the Midwest.
 
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Thinking on the 1920 election,

We know Frank Lowden is going to be the hapless Liberal, he straddles the old-guard/moderate line, is amendable to both Eastern finance and Midwestern/Western agriculture, a perfectly fine candidate in normal times after four years of Root he's going to be on the wrong end of a landslide.

It also means every Democrat and their mother is going to be running for the 1920s nomination, and we also know that after three runs of Hearst and another of McClellan, New York's Democrats have had their time in the sun, but if Democrats can't get NY's 63 EVs, they'll at least have Ohio's 32. So the party's candidate needs to run strongly in the Midwest.

Logically that would means the next nominee would be steered to either the number 2 man on McClellan's ticket, the Senator from Ohio, Newton D. Baker or the state's Governor James M. Cox. Baker is the well-spoken protege of Hearst's old Veep Tom Johnson, a Georgist, and a progressive in the Jeffersonian mold. OTL the much talked about stop-FDR candidate at the 1932 DNC, here he's the logical pick for a Democratic convention, as an eloquent orator from a key swing state, who's broadly amendable to the party at large (his support for the LoN which brought him Bill Hearst's ire OTL is presumably a non-issue here). What's stopping him from becoming the runaway front-runner is a historic disinterest in the job, which keeps him from becoming an overwhelming favorite and may lead to him pre-emptively withdrawing in favor of...

Governor James M. Cox, the OTL Democratic nominee in 1920. Fan of labor, progressives, Americanization, and Roosevelt. He shares much the same niche as Newton Baker but has shown greater interest in the Presidency. As an proven vote-getter in the buck-eye state that makes both an attractive candidate and a broadly amenable figure to the ex-Populists in the Heartland. the Tammanies in the East, and the Progressives in between and out West.

Outside of the two Ohio men, there's the Plains/the Heartland/Flyover country, hater of monopoly, and railroad companies, lovers of farmers, farm subsidies, and price supports. Home to the ex-Populists of the Weaver-Bryanite tradition, bad blood from Bryan's role in attempting to usurp the man from the Empire State in 12' and in keeping the White House from Adlai the 1st in 00' likely going to prove as much of an obstacle to one of their candidates winning the nomination as much as their fear of and rivalry with the Tammanies out east.

Gilbert Hitchcock, Senator from Nebraska, and Bryan's old protege is likely to make a go of it, running firmly in the Populist tradition of the Boy Orator, and he may be joined by Senator Thomas Walsh, Montana's Catholic Senator, who's ties with Labor, Progressives, and Suffragists, would make him a very attractive candidate if he came from state that could call upon more then 5 electoral votes. Their showing on the balloting will be there, but their path to the nomination is narrow enough without the Democrats from the Empire State distracted by internal feuding.

Champ Clark, is also likely to make a go of it, as Speaker of the House and one of the grand old men in the Democratic Party. Mostly acceptable to all it's wings, he runs into the problem of being 70 when the Democratic National Convention meets to select it's nominee and with a party filled with young blood itching to move forward past the Hearst and Hughes and Root years, I think his political half-life has passed him buy.

Otherwise there's probably James Gerard as Tammany's favorite son. New Yorker's have had four bites of the apple, they aren't getting a 5th. Plus a broad smattering of favorite sons, including the Sinophobic Senators from the Pacific, and representatives of the Eastern states which are not the Empire state. Plus one or two men on horseback hoping that a chest full of stars will be a ticket to Lemon Hill and the Square Kilometer.

I'd be surprised if the party's next nominee and by extension the next President comes from outside the Buckeye state, I'd be very surprised if they came from outside the Midwest.
Good post! I'm thinking it has to be a guy from the West - the part of the country most loyal to and most responsible for Democratic success the past twenty-ish years.

I would have guessed Turner from Washington but it was mentioned he stays in the Senate post 1920. I have a soft spot for John Shafroth of Colorado and not just because he's got a great old school pushbroom stache. He's famous from being on the Lafollette Committee and seems like a guy on the upswing.
 
Thinking on the 1920 election,

We know Frank Lowden is going to be the hapless Liberal, he straddles the old-guard/moderate line, is amendable to both Eastern finance and Midwestern/Western agriculture, a perfectly fine candidate in normal times after four years of Root he's going to be on the wrong end of a landslide.
You know that actually brings an interesting scenario to mind. Not that we don't already know that it wont happen, just to think about:
What if after the nominations are done, the Democrat candidate is actually cought with the proverbial dead girl or live boy and Lowden wins a surprise victory despite Roots abysmal performance? The Democrats will almost certainly have big majorities in the House and the Senate. So permanent gridlock, worst of both worlds as nothing gets done or would the two parties actually learn some compromise which would be a nice precedent going forward.
 
Senator Thomas Walsh, Montana's Catholic Senator
Al Smith is explicitly the first Catholic president, which takes Walsh out, I think.

Based on your reasoning, I think Baker may be the frontrunner (given KingSweden's love of Georgists and all that). Although, if Smith is already going to be president, and a one-term tradition is being established ITTL, and TTL's 1920's are being set up to be the polar opposite of the OTL 1920's, why not have the three failed Democratic nominees of the the OTL 1920's as the presidents?
James M. Cox, 1921-1925 (as a side note, I don't actually think I've ever seen a TL where Cox wins)
John W. Davis, 1925-1929
Al Smith, 1929-1933

The main obstacle, I think, is that Davis may perhaps be too conservative for TTL's 1920's political zeitgeist, and I'm not sure Cox or especially Smith would be enthused at retiring after just one term.
 
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