Scotland, Callaghan, Thatcher and others. A timeline from March 1979
- Thread starter pipisme
- Start date
The Liberals agreed with Labour that they would give them confidence and supply. Denis Healey appointed his cabinet on 9 and 10 October. The ministers were as follows:
Prime Minister: Denis Healey
Lord Chancellor: Lord Mischcon
Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons: Roy Hattersley
Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Lords: Baroness Shirley Williams
Chancellor of the Exchequer: John Smith
Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary: William Rodgers
Home Secretary: Sir John Morris
Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food: Jack Cunningham
Defence Secretary: Denzil Davies
Education and Science Secretary: Joan Lestor
Employment Secretary: Bryan Gould
Energy Secretary: Michael Meacher
Environment Secretary: Neil Kinnock
Health Secretary: Robin Cook
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster: Stanley Orme
Northern Ireland Secretary: Clare Short
Minister of Overseas Development: Kevin McNamara
Scotland Secretary: Gavin Strang
Social Security Secretary: Gwyneth Dunwoody
Trade and Industry Secretary: Gordon Brown
Transport Secretary: Frank Dobson
Wales Secretary: Alan Williams
Selected junior ministers appointed 11 October:
Attorney-General: Sir Peter Archer
Solicitor-General: Harriet Harman
Paymaster-General: Margaret Beckett
Chief Secretary to the Treasury: Giles Radice
Economic Secretary to the Treasury: John Prescott
Financial Secretary to the Treasury: John Grant
Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Government Chief Whip): Derek Foster
Minister of State Foreign Office: Dickson Mabon
Minister of State Home Office: Jack Straw.
Prime Minister: Denis Healey
Lord Chancellor: Lord Mischcon
Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons: Roy Hattersley
Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Lords: Baroness Shirley Williams
Chancellor of the Exchequer: John Smith
Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary: William Rodgers
Home Secretary: Sir John Morris
Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food: Jack Cunningham
Defence Secretary: Denzil Davies
Education and Science Secretary: Joan Lestor
Employment Secretary: Bryan Gould
Energy Secretary: Michael Meacher
Environment Secretary: Neil Kinnock
Health Secretary: Robin Cook
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster: Stanley Orme
Northern Ireland Secretary: Clare Short
Minister of Overseas Development: Kevin McNamara
Scotland Secretary: Gavin Strang
Social Security Secretary: Gwyneth Dunwoody
Trade and Industry Secretary: Gordon Brown
Transport Secretary: Frank Dobson
Wales Secretary: Alan Williams
Selected junior ministers appointed 11 October:
Attorney-General: Sir Peter Archer
Solicitor-General: Harriet Harman
Paymaster-General: Margaret Beckett
Chief Secretary to the Treasury: Giles Radice
Economic Secretary to the Treasury: John Prescott
Financial Secretary to the Treasury: John Grant
Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Government Chief Whip): Derek Foster
Minister of State Foreign Office: Dickson Mabon
Minister of State Home Office: Jack Straw.
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There was a lot of speculation in the media as to whether a Conservative MP would challenge Margaret Thatcher for the party leadership. Michael Heseltine did, and the Conservative Party leadership was held on 21 November 1989.
The number of votes for each candidate were as follows:
Thatcher: 161
Heseltine: 137
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Total: 298
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Under the rules the winning candidate needed a majority over the second placed candidate of 15 percent of all 303 Conservative MPs. Therefore a lead of 46 was required. Thatcher had a majority over Heseltine of 24, so there would be a second ballot.
The number of votes for each candidate were as follows:
Thatcher: 161
Heseltine: 137
------------------
Total: 298
-----------------
Under the rules the winning candidate needed a majority over the second placed candidate of 15 percent of all 303 Conservative MPs. Therefore a lead of 46 was required. Thatcher had a majority over Heseltine of 24, so there would be a second ballot.
Both Thatcher and Heseltine stood in the second round of the leadership election on 27 November. This time Sir Geoffrey Howe was a candidate. The number of votes received by each candidate were as follows:
Thatcher: 120
Howe: 104
Heseltine: 76
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Total: 300
--------------
Heseltine was eliminated and the third round took place on 2 December 1989. The number of votes for each candidate were:
Howe: 167
Thatcher: 133
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Total: 300 (300)
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So Margaret Thatcher resigned and Sir Geoffrey Howe became leader of the Conservative Party and leader of the Opposition. He appointed Michael Heseltine as shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Thatcher: 120
Howe: 104
Heseltine: 76
--------------
Total: 300
--------------
Heseltine was eliminated and the third round took place on 2 December 1989. The number of votes for each candidate were:
Howe: 167
Thatcher: 133
--------------------
Total: 300 (300)
--------------------
So Margaret Thatcher resigned and Sir Geoffrey Howe became leader of the Conservative Party and leader of the Opposition. He appointed Michael Heseltine as shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer.
The first Gulf War in January and February 1991 happened as in OTL. After it was over, Denis Healey announced on Tuesday 12 March 1991 his intention to resign as leader of the Labour Party and Prime Minister, when a leader was elected. The two candidates in the leadership election were Bryan Gould, the Employment Secretary, and John Smith, the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
The result was announced at a special Labour Party conference in London on Saturday 27 April 1991. The percentage votes for each candidate were as follows:
John Smith: 79.8
Bryan Gould: 20.2.
So Smith was elected leader of the Labour Party and became Prime Minister. He made the following changes to his government:
Gordon Brown from Trade Secretary to Chancellor of the Exchequer
Bryan Gould from Employment Secretary to Trade and Industry Secretary
Margaret Beckett from Paymaster-General to Employment Secretary
Giles Radice from Chief Secretary to the Treasury to Paymaster-General
John Grant from Financial Secretary to the Treasury to Chief Secretary
Alistair Darling appointed Financial Secretary.
Charles Kennedy, who won Western Isles for Labour in the October 1989 general election, was appointed Under Secretary at the Scottish Office.
The result was announced at a special Labour Party conference in London on Saturday 27 April 1991. The percentage votes for each candidate were as follows:
John Smith: 79.8
Bryan Gould: 20.2.
So Smith was elected leader of the Labour Party and became Prime Minister. He made the following changes to his government:
Gordon Brown from Trade Secretary to Chancellor of the Exchequer
Bryan Gould from Employment Secretary to Trade and Industry Secretary
Margaret Beckett from Paymaster-General to Employment Secretary
Giles Radice from Chief Secretary to the Treasury to Paymaster-General
John Grant from Financial Secretary to the Treasury to Chief Secretary
Alistair Darling appointed Financial Secretary.
Charles Kennedy, who won Western Isles for Labour in the October 1989 general election, was appointed Under Secretary at the Scottish Office.
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Sorry for the late reply. I guess my impression was that the Conservatives didn't include the poll tax in their 1987 manifesto and that some people were taken by surprise when they tried to introduce it. Am I wrong about that?
Anyway, looks like the old Labour right (as opposed to New Labour) are in control of the party at the moment with Smith replacing Healey. Though I'm a little surprised that Healey is stepping down only two years into his first term as PM, unless he's having health issues.
Healey was 65 years old and retired because he wanted to give his successor time in office before the next general election, which was due no later than October 1994.
Following good results for Labour in the local elections on 2 May 1991, and an average Labour lead over the Conservatives in the opinion polls of 4.6%, there was much media speculation that Smith would call a June general election. In a media conference outside 10 Downing Street on 6 May, he announced that a general election would be held on Thursday 6 June 1991. Parliament would be dissolved on 10 May and re-assemble after the general election on 18 June. He said that this right time to give the Labour Party the opportunity to win an overall majority in the House of Commons. The government was now dependent on Liberal votes.
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Polling stations were open from 7am to 10 pm on election day. The marginal constituency of Basildon was the first result declared at just before 11 pm. It was held by Labour with a majority of 10.1% over Conservative, up from 5.9% in the October 1989 general election. This was a swing of 2.1% from Conservative to Labour. The percentage votes for each party were as follows (1989 general election):
Labour: 48.2 (46.7)
Conservative: 38.1 (40.8)
Liberal: 13.7 (12.5).
As more results were declared during the night and the following day, Labour and Liberals gained seats from Conservatives. Though Liberals lost seats to the other two parties. When all the results were in, the number of seats in the House of Commons for each party were as follows (1989 general election):
Labour: 352 (298)
Conservative: 245 (303)
Liberal: 29 (25)
Ulster Unionist: 9 (9)
Plaid Cymru: 4 (3)
SDLP: 4 (4)
SNP: 4 (3)
Democratic Unionist: 3 (3)
Progressive Unionist: 1 (n/a)
(Ulster Popular Unionist: 1
(Speaker: 1)
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Total: 651 (650)
----------------------
The number of seats increased by one because Milton Keynes was divided into two constituencies.
The Labour majority over all parties was 53.
The percentage votes for each party were as follows (1989 general election):
Labour: 40.4 (39.2)
Conservative: 35.1 (39.5)
Liberal: 18.9 (16.4)
SNP: 1.6 (1.7)
Plaid Cymru: 0.5 (0.5)
Others: 3.5 (2.7)
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Total: 100.0 (100.0)
--------------------------
The national swing from Conservative to Labour was 2.8%. The turnout was 76.0% (75.4%).
Labour: 48.2 (46.7)
Conservative: 38.1 (40.8)
Liberal: 13.7 (12.5).
As more results were declared during the night and the following day, Labour and Liberals gained seats from Conservatives. Though Liberals lost seats to the other two parties. When all the results were in, the number of seats in the House of Commons for each party were as follows (1989 general election):
Labour: 352 (298)
Conservative: 245 (303)
Liberal: 29 (25)
Ulster Unionist: 9 (9)
Plaid Cymru: 4 (3)
SDLP: 4 (4)
SNP: 4 (3)
Democratic Unionist: 3 (3)
Progressive Unionist: 1 (n/a)
(Ulster Popular Unionist: 1
(Speaker: 1)
------------------------
Total: 651 (650)
----------------------
The number of seats increased by one because Milton Keynes was divided into two constituencies.
The Labour majority over all parties was 53.
The percentage votes for each party were as follows (1989 general election):
Labour: 40.4 (39.2)
Conservative: 35.1 (39.5)
Liberal: 18.9 (16.4)
SNP: 1.6 (1.7)
Plaid Cymru: 0.5 (0.5)
Others: 3.5 (2.7)
---------------------------
Total: 100.0 (100.0)
--------------------------
The national swing from Conservative to Labour was 2.8%. The turnout was 76.0% (75.4%).
But 73 in April 1991 when he resigned as leader of the Labour Party and Prime Minister.
In February 1990 Britain joined the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM). By Seprember 1992 it was clear that Britain had joined at too high a rate. Gordon Brown and John Smith were reluctant to devalue the pound, because it would strengthen Labour's reputation as the party of devaluation, following devaluations of the pound in 1949 and 1967.
On Black Wednesday, 30 September 1992, the Labour gpvernment took Britain out of the ERM. This action was strongly criticised by the Conservative Party leader, Sir Geoffrey Howe, and the shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, Michael Heseltine. It seriously damaged Labour's repitation for economic competence.
On Black Wednesday, 30 September 1992, the Labour gpvernment took Britain out of the ERM. This action was strongly criticised by the Conservative Party leader, Sir Geoffrey Howe, and the shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, Michael Heseltine. It seriously damaged Labour's repitation for economic competence.
This is an interesting Timeline @pipisme but I find it hard to believe that given the economic situation Thatcher would have inherited in 1984 with no Winter of Discontent, no miners strike, and no Falklands that the Conservatives would have enacted the same economic and monitory policies they enacted in OTL- circumstances would be different and Thatcher would not have had the public behind her to for example do something about the unions' that she had in 1979.
Also while Labour economic policy 1979-1984 might not had transformed the British manufacturing system much, technology and world markets where changing and I don't think Thatcher would have been able to destroy quite as much as she managed OTL, without riots, and much more domestic violence- your 86-87 Miners Strike would be the tip of a huge iceberg of discontent and there would have been a much bigger swing to Labour at the election. No Liberal pact- Thatcher has just put millions out of work, and introduced the Poll Tax. Without the 'Falklands Factor' it would be a utter landslide imho.
Denis Healey and Labour in charge during the Gulf War must have had an impact on the conflict, esp without the Falklands conflict impacting the UK military. Not saying Labour would not support the US/UN on Kuwait, but it dunno if it would have gone as OTL.
If Britain joined the European Exchange Rate Mechanism at the wrong rate I could see Labour asking the EEC to revaluate it, but not just withdrawing entirely. Being known to negotiate the rate would be better than playing 'hokey-cokey' with the ERM. It not a matter of devaluation, but negotiation of the rate. Pulling out is bad policy.
Hope Smith is taking better care of his health.
Labour in charge should see Yugoslavia/Bosnia conflict go differently I would have thought.
I can see Labour putting the 1992 Maastricht Treaty to a referendum, with major consequences when Britain likely votes no.
British Rail turned their biggest profits in 1990-92 as I recall just before privatisation, so here they should do a lot better under Labour. This is a great 'no privatisation' timeline by Devvy that might spark ideas: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/tl-the-double-headed-arrow-uk-trains.384467/
Howe as Tory leader should certainly play off Smith well in the Commons. Spitting Image would certainly be having fun.
Where is Tony Blair? Wasn't he a minister by now OTL?
More please.
Also while Labour economic policy 1979-1984 might not had transformed the British manufacturing system much, technology and world markets where changing and I don't think Thatcher would have been able to destroy quite as much as she managed OTL, without riots, and much more domestic violence- your 86-87 Miners Strike would be the tip of a huge iceberg of discontent and there would have been a much bigger swing to Labour at the election. No Liberal pact- Thatcher has just put millions out of work, and introduced the Poll Tax. Without the 'Falklands Factor' it would be a utter landslide imho.
Denis Healey and Labour in charge during the Gulf War must have had an impact on the conflict, esp without the Falklands conflict impacting the UK military. Not saying Labour would not support the US/UN on Kuwait, but it dunno if it would have gone as OTL.
If Britain joined the European Exchange Rate Mechanism at the wrong rate I could see Labour asking the EEC to revaluate it, but not just withdrawing entirely. Being known to negotiate the rate would be better than playing 'hokey-cokey' with the ERM. It not a matter of devaluation, but negotiation of the rate. Pulling out is bad policy.
Hope Smith is taking better care of his health.
Labour in charge should see Yugoslavia/Bosnia conflict go differently I would have thought.
I can see Labour putting the 1992 Maastricht Treaty to a referendum, with major consequences when Britain likely votes no.
British Rail turned their biggest profits in 1990-92 as I recall just before privatisation, so here they should do a lot better under Labour. This is a great 'no privatisation' timeline by Devvy that might spark ideas: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/tl-the-double-headed-arrow-uk-trains.384467/
Howe as Tory leader should certainly play off Smith well in the Commons. Spitting Image would certainly be having fun.
Where is Tony Blair? Wasn't he a minister by now OTL?
More please.
Thank you for your comments. I decided to keep the Gulf War the same as in OTL because I think it would have had basically the same result. I need to research the Yugoslav/Bosnia conflict, and the 1992 Maastricht Treaty.
I have retconned the withdrawal of Britain from the ERM. Instead the British government negotiated a revaluation of sterling with the EEC at a 15 per cent lower rate. This was condemned by the Tories as as devaluation of the pound.
John Smith promoted Tony Blair from Parliamentary Secretary Department of Employment to Minister of State Home Office, when he became Prime Minister. Blair did not share an office with Gordon Brown in the House of Commons, as they did in OTL. They did not become friends. Brown was elected Labour MP for Glasgow Garscadden in a by-election in June 1981. Blair was elected Labour MP for Sedgefield in the October 1984 general election.
I have retconned the withdrawal of Britain from the ERM. Instead the British government negotiated a revaluation of sterling with the EEC at a 15 per cent lower rate. This was condemned by the Tories as as devaluation of the pound.
John Smith promoted Tony Blair from Parliamentary Secretary Department of Employment to Minister of State Home Office, when he became Prime Minister. Blair did not share an office with Gordon Brown in the House of Commons, as they did in OTL. They did not become friends. Brown was elected Labour MP for Glasgow Garscadden in a by-election in June 1981. Blair was elected Labour MP for Sedgefield in the October 1984 general election.
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The Maastricht Treaty was signed on behalf of the UK on 7 February 1992 by the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, William Rodgers, and the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, Alistair Darling. It became effective on 1 November 1993. It was the same as in TL. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty. However the Labour government did not ask for an opt out from the Agreement on Social Policy. The Conservative Party opposed the Treaty because there was no opt out from social policy, but Labour and Liberals voted for it. The gpvernment did not provide for a referendum on the Treaty. I have not read that the Labour Party wanted a referendum in OTL.
The British government contributed troops to UN peacekeeping forces in Bosnia, and successfully called for more forces to be sent there.
The British government contributed troops to UN peacekeeping forces in Bosnia, and successfully called for more forces to be sent there.
The Welsh devolution referendum was held on 5 March 1992. This was a commitment in the Labour manifesto for the October 1991 general election, which also promised that a Welsh Assembly with executive powers would be established if the result of the referendum was a majority for one. The Yes campaign, Yes for Wales, was backed by the Labour and Liberal parties, and by Plaid Cymru. The No campaign, Just Say No, was supported by the Conservative Party and the small number of anti-devolution Labour MPs.
The options on the ballot papers were:
I agree that there should be a Welsh Assembly as proposed by the government.
I do not agree that that there should be a Welsh Assembly as proposed by the government.
Excluding invalid votes. the result was Not Agree: 50.9%, Agree: 49.1%. So there was a majority against a Welsh Assembly. The following twelve unitary authorities voted Not Agree: Anglesey, Cardiff, Conwy, Denbighshire, Flintshire, Monmouthshire, Newport, Pembrokeshire, Powys, Torfaen, Vale of Glamorgan, Wrexham. The ten unitary authorities which voted agree were Blaenau Gwent, Bridgend, Caerphilly, Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion, Gwynedd, Merthyr Tydfil, Neath Port Talbot, Rhondda Cynon Taff, Swansea.
The options on the ballot papers were:
I agree that there should be a Welsh Assembly as proposed by the government.
I do not agree that that there should be a Welsh Assembly as proposed by the government.
Excluding invalid votes. the result was Not Agree: 50.9%, Agree: 49.1%. So there was a majority against a Welsh Assembly. The following twelve unitary authorities voted Not Agree: Anglesey, Cardiff, Conwy, Denbighshire, Flintshire, Monmouthshire, Newport, Pembrokeshire, Powys, Torfaen, Vale of Glamorgan, Wrexham. The ten unitary authorities which voted agree were Blaenau Gwent, Bridgend, Caerphilly, Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion, Gwynedd, Merthyr Tydfil, Neath Port Talbot, Rhondda Cynon Taff, Swansea.