Sail NY to SF versus overland

[Cash]

Does anyone have any information on how long it took a ship to sail from New York to San Francisco around the Horn in, say, 1850, versus traveling overland before the railroad was built? I'm assuming overland travel would include riverboat down the Ohio and up the Missouri to St. Louis, then overland by horse or mule (not Conestoga wagon). The premise is someone in New York or Boston who has to reach San Francisco as quickly as possible, starting in May.

Some travelers took ships to Panama, crossed the Isthmus, and then sailed north to SF, but that route was considered more dangerous because of disease and bandits, as I understand it. So for this purpose, I'm proposing a straight sea journey.

If you have any good sources, online or in books, please share them. I'm having a devil of a time getting accurate info, for some reason.

 

[GreatScottMarty]

The overland route is faster and less expensive, the sea route would definitely get you there. See the difference I am drawing? Also for a lot of people the end goal was not necessarily SF or California so much as Colorado or Oregon.

 

[cw1865]

Sea

http://www.caphorniers.cl/desafio/challenge.htm

"The first Clipper Competition around Cape Horn took place in 1850, with seven vessels taking part and large amounts of money riding on the outcome. The vessel "Samuel Russel" took 109 days to reach San Francisco from New York, shortening the existing record by eleven days, and creating a sensation that was hard to overcome."

Here is an advertisement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:California_Clipper_500.jpg

The overland route was not quicker at the time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Trail

"The four- to six-month journey spanned over half the continent as the wagon trail led about 2,000 miles" - and of course you're starting much farther west than NYC..."

By 1860:

"Starting in 1860, after the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_WarAmerican Civil War closed the heavily subsidized southern Butterfield Overland Mail stage routes to California, several stage lines were set up carrying mail and passengers that traversed much of the route of the original Oregon Trail to Fort Bridger and from there over the Central Overland Route to California. By traveling day and night with many stations and changes of teams (and extensive mail subsidies) these stages could get passengers and mail from the midwest to California in about 25–28 days"

 

[GreatScottMarty]

nice find CW. Although the stage Route was kind of iffy due to Indians and Bandits. So the Sea Route is the "safest" correct? Mind if I ask why? I am eager for a Wild West TL.

 

[cw1865]

Safer?

nice find CW. Although the stage Route was kind of iffy due to Indians and Bandits. So the Sea Route is the "safest" correct? Mind if I ask why? I am eager for a Wild West TL.

I don't know the statistics on that one. Rounding Cape Horn doesn't sound like fun to me. Fighting the Native Americans also not much fun. I'm guessing the 'disease risk' would be about equivalent?

 

[GreatScottMarty]

I don't know the statistics on that one. Rounding Cape Horn doesn't sound like fun to me. Fighting the Native Americans also not much fun. I'm guessing the 'disease risk' would be about equivalent?

well it's all relative . I think disease risk is a little higher in wagon, ever play Oregon Trail? everyone got Cholera. Seriously though, Law of Large Numbers applies. The longer the trip the more that can go wrong.

 

[Jared]

Does anyone have any information on how long it took a ship to sail from New York to San Francisco around the Horn in, say, 1850, versus traveling overland before the railroad was built? I'm assuming overland travel would include riverboat down the Ohio and up the Missouri to St. Louis, then overland by horse or mule (not Conestoga wagon). The premise is someone in New York or Boston who has to reach San Francisco as quickly as possible, starting in May.

Some travelers took ships to Panama, crossed the Isthmus, and then sailed north to SF, but that route was considered more dangerous because of disease and bandits, as I understand it. So for this purpose, I'm proposing a straight sea journey.

At this time, the best and cheapest route was taking a steamer into the Caribbean, then going overland via Nicaragua, not Panama, and taking another steamer to San Francisco.

Cornelius Vanderbilt was the man who secured the rights to do this, and he undercut his competitors so that at the time of the California Gold Rush, almost all of the traffic to the gold fields went via the route he controlled. (William Walker's attempt to conquer Nicaragua failed because he ran afoul of Vanderbilt for interfering with this route).

Odd historical tidbit: Vanderbilt was so successful on this route that he found it easier to get his commerical rivals (companies who went via Panama) to pay him a yearly stipend not to re-open this route. So they paid him every year, and even raised the amount of the stipend when he threatened to re-open the route.

http://www.costarica-net-guide.com/vanderbilt.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_Transit_Company

 

[Cash]

http://www.caphorniers.cl/desafio/challenge.htm

"The first Clipper Competition around Cape Horn took place in 1850, with seven vessels taking part and large amounts of money riding on the outcome. The vessel "Samuel Russel" took 109 days to reach San Francisco from New York, shortening the existing record by eleven days, and creating a sensation that was hard to overcome."

Excellent find, thank you! I wasn't thinking in terms of clipper ships, but they could definitely be a factor.

The overland route was not quicker at the time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Trail

"

The four- to six-month journey spanned over half the continent as the wagon trail led about 2,000 miles" - and of course you're starting much farther west than NYC..."

I am not assuming a wagon-train crossing of the American West (too slow), but rather a small group of well-armed individuals traveling light and fast on horseback with at least one extra remount per person.

By 1860:

"Starting in 1860, after the American Civil War closed the heavily subsidized southern Butterfield Overland Mail stage routes to California, several stage lines were set up carrying mail and passengers that traversed much of the route of the original Oregon Trail to Fort Bridger and from there over the Central Overland Route to California. By traveling day and night with many stations and changes of teams (and extensive mail subsidies) these stages could get passengers and mail from the midwest to California in about 25–28 days"

Excellent again. So it appears a person/group who is not traveling 24/7 could theoretically make the journey from St. Joe/St. Louis in 60-70 days using the trails of 1850. Thank you!

 

[Cash]

At this time, the best and cheapest route was taking a steamer into the Caribbean, then going overland via Nicaragua, not Panama, and taking another steamer to San Francisco.

Cornelius Vanderbilt was the man who secured the rights to do this, and he undercut his competitors so that at the time of the California Gold Rush, almost all of the traffic to the gold fields went via the route he controlled. (William Walker's attempt to conquer Nicaragua failed because he ran afoul of Vanderbilt for interfering with this route).

Odd historical tidbit: Vanderbilt was so successful on this route that he found it easier to get his commerical rivals (companies who went via Panama) to pay him a yearly stipend not to re-open this route. So they paid him every year, and even raised the amount of the stipend when he threatened to re-open the route.

http://www.costarica-net-guide.com/vanderbilt.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_Transit_Company

As nearly as I can tell from the sources, the Nicaraguan route wasn't in operation in 1850, or at least not until late in the year, after Vanderbilt had returned from his unsuccessful trip to Europe seeking capital to develop the route. Otherwise this would be a definite contender.

Perhaps a POD where Vanderbilt takes action a year earlier ...