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Bulldoggus

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Stop trying to make American Christian Democracy happen. It isn't going to happen :p.
I want to believe.
I don't see Patton or his party building much of a base among Catholics given that from what we've been told that their support base is grounded in Southern WASPs who dislike immigrants. That is literally the most anti-Catholic section of American society.
True enough in the short-to-mid-term. That said, the long term strategy of the People's Coalition will have to involve finding a base of support that isn't "southern whites who are only kinda racist".
 
I want to believe.

True enough in the short-to-mid-term. That said, the long term strategy of the People's Coalition will have to involve finding a base of support that isn't "southern whites who are only kinda racist".
Christian Democracy in a broad, historical, German-sense, with Catholics and Protestants, with both centre-right and centre-left wings, could fill a niche in the US, for those who don't identify with the main parties, and don't want racism or extremism of any kind.
 

Bulldoggus

Banned
Christian Democracy in a broad, historical, German-sense, with Catholics and Protestants, with both centre-right and centre-left wings, could fill a niche in the US, for those who don't identify with the main parties, and don't want racism or extremism of any kind.
My thoughts exactly. My thinking it would align generally with not wanting to rock the fiscal boat, soft social conservatism, corporatism, and a general sense of "can't we all just get along"? Of course, in the south it would be more varied.
 
My thoughts exactly. My thinking it would align generally with not wanting to rock the fiscal boat, soft social conservatism, corporatism, and a general sense of "can't we all just get along"? Of course, in the south it would be more varied.
A really broad tent party based on the full scope of Christian Democracy, can have people ranging from anti-racist social conservatives pro-market to anti-racist socially inclusive defendants of government regulation, partial ownership and even workers participation in companies, either with a seat in the administration or cooperatives.
 
I really don't like saying this, but Taft is probably the best president America ITTL could've wished for. He is more right-wing than Landon which means that he will push harder against spending and the high inflation. Also his strong anti-communism along with his isolationist stance on the world stage is also for the best as the progressives would be too close with the Soviet Union and Landon doesn't have a clear plan aside from 'American victory against fascism'. This timeline also hints to him winning a second term and the third party run of Patton might be just what saved him. I really can't see Taft winning one-on-one against Glen Taylor with Wherry splitting the right-wing vote.
 
A really broad tent party based on the full scope of Christian Democracy, can have people ranging from anti-racist social conservatives pro-market to anti-racist socially inclusive defendants of government regulation, partial ownership and even workers participation in companies, either with a seat in the administration or cooperatives.

But broad tents are no longer as relevant or necessary with the changed electoral system.
 
But broad tents are no longer as relevant or necessary with the changed electoral system.
In a country where Christian democracy is not an usual concept, a broad tent is a way to have some strength.
Not to the point of having completely opposed economic policies. Or cultures like any all-christian party would have in the US.
Christian Democratic parties are able to have a wide variety of economic policies (and follow its national dominant line at each moment or make compromise policies between sensibilities), and they are not exclusive to Christians (they only follow precepts based on Christian beliefs) and would not want any connection with certain far-right fringes of US politics that talk about religion.
 

Bulldoggus

Banned
@Archangel @Nyvis Also let’s remember that Christian Democracy (capital C and D) is at its core a movement based around Political Catholocism. Political Protestantism is much less of a thing in the developed world, outside of the US where the megachurches consciously developed an ideology to fit the New Right like a glove.
 
@Archangel @Nyvis Also let’s remember that Christian Democracy (capital C and D) is at its core a movement based around Political Catholocism. Political Protestantism is much less of a thing in the developed world, outside of the US where the megachurches consciously developed an ideology to fit the New Right like a glove.
In fairness, the Anti-Revolutionary Party of the Netherlands was decidedly Protestant (if as traditionalist conservative as Christian democratic before pillarisation started breaking down), the Scandinavian Christian democratic parties are more than non-entities, and the CDU does have at least something of a Protestant influence even though it's the de facto successor to Zentrum more than anything, but I'll concede that I'm grasping at straws here/couldn't resist the opportunity to bring up early 20th century Dutch politics.

That aside, I could definitely see the People's Coalition metamorphosing Christian democratic elements at some point, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Alexander the Average has a very good point about the Catholic interests and Patton's interests being diametrically opposed to one another given that Catholics are still the majority religion of recent immigrants during this time period, not to mention that Catholics are presumably the most Progressive group after Jews. Certainly, I could see Catholics becoming less tied to the Progressive unions and machines over time in the same way that Catholics became decreasingly Democratic over time; but I doubt that such a social change will come for at least a generation, particularly after Patton's dog-whistling designed to appeal to the WASP working class. Perhaps LBJ could attempt to incorporate ideas (or more importantly the rhetoric) of political Christianity into the People's Coalition, but I just can't see such ideas making the People's Coalition a true Christian democratic party, so to speak, given its decidedly populist origins as a party of the Southern WASP working-class. The People's Coalition could expand to be a party of the WASP working-class relatively soon, and it could eventually incorporate more European Catholics into its ranks after they become assimilated into American society (especially if a version of the Immigration Act of 1965 is passed, which would thereby help create a new class of immigrants alongside Puerto Ricans and Latinos), and it would probably be desirable to use some rhetoric based on Christian principles. But does that make the People's Coalition a Christian democratic party? I doubt it; instead, I think it's more likely for the People's Coalition to evolve to be a "hardhat" party, so to speak, supporting a synthesis between vaguely Christian principles, nationalism (both economic and cultural), a two-thirds secular, one-third religious social traditionalism, and economic populism/leftism. There are Christian democratic elements and probably a corresponding faction, to be sure, but it's not a fully-fledged Christian democratic party.
 
In fairness, the Anti-Revolutionary Party of the Netherlands was decidedly Protestant (if as traditionalist conservative as Christian democratic before pillarisation started breaking down), the Scandinavian Christian democratic parties are more than non-entities, and the CDU does have at least something of a Protestant influence even though it's the de facto successor to Zentrum more than anything, but I'll concede that I'm grasping at straws here/couldn't resist the opportunity to bring up early 20th century Dutch politics.

That aside, I could definitely see the People's Coalition metamorphosing Christian democratic elements at some point, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Alexander the Average has a very good point about the Catholic interests and Patton's interests being diametrically opposed to one another given that Catholics are still the majority religion of recent immigrants during this time period, not to mention that Catholics are presumably the most Progressive group after Jews. Certainly, I could see Catholics becoming less tied to the Progressive unions and machines over time in the same way that Catholics became decreasingly Democratic over time; but I doubt that such a social change will come for at least a generation, particularly after Patton's dog-whistling designed to appeal to the WASP working class. Perhaps LBJ could attempt to incorporate ideas (or more importantly the rhetoric) of political Christianity into the People's Coalition, but I just can't see such ideas making the People's Coalition a true Christian democratic party, so to speak, given its decidedly populist origins as a party of the Southern WASP working-class. The People's Coalition could expand to be a party of the WASP working-class relatively soon, and it could eventually incorporate more European Catholics into its ranks after they become assimilated into American society (especially if a version of the Immigration Act of 1965 is passed, which would thereby help create a new class of immigrants alongside Puerto Ricans and Latinos), and it would probably be desirable to use some rhetoric based on Christian principles. But does that make the People's Coalition a Christian democratic party? I doubt it; instead, I think it's more likely for the People's Coalition to evolve to be a "hardhat" party, so to speak, supporting a synthesis between vaguely Christian principles, nationalism (both economic and cultural), a two-thirds secular, one-third religious social traditionalism, and economic populism/leftism. There are Christian democratic elements and probably a corresponding faction, to be sure, but it's not a fully-fledged Christian democratic party.

I think it could be possible for there to be 3 different Christian Democrat Parties, one like the "hardhat" party Upton thought out above, one based primarily around general protestant views (which in my opinion would come from the American Party, if only because they don't have a stable "issue" to rally around other than extreme nationalism and anti-communism) and one that is based around Catholicism in the north (this one I think is less likely because there aren't as many Catholics as there are Protestant denominations in the United States.)

(Also posting because it's been a month :biggrin:)
 
I just read everything in a few days and wow its such a good ride. I really hope I see more in the future.
 
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I gave up on telling this as a narrative several years ago, and in hindsight would have done a lot differently with the entire Ruins story. However, for the past few weeks I have been pondering a continuation/redo in some form or another. One problem is that I don't believe that telling the story in a linear manner is the best way to do what I want. I am considering making a wikia or something for this TL, so that I can for example work on different parts in different places, and continue expanding into the future while retconning stuff in the past. Also, I could allow other users to contribute. IDK if Wikia is the best site, but I'd want something wiki-like where there can be multiple pages expanding simultaneously and where other users can contribute, and that would be publicly accessible unlike a Google doc folder or something. I wouldn't want to go to the Alternate history wikia unless it's a last resort in part to keep stuff separate, but might do that if people think that making a new one would be a bad idea.
 
That sounds like an interesting project for sure! Any provider of wiki would probably do. I know Reds! use this one, which is an ads free nonprofit:
 
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