Roosevelt dies in 1944

What would happen if Roosevelt died in 1944, before the election can take place on November 7th? Assume that he dies of 'natural causes', a stroke, heart attack or the somesuch. Short term or long term effects, I'm interested in either, of pretty much any sort.

Scenario 1: He dies before receiving the Presidential nomination.

Scenario 2: He dies after receiving the Presidential nomination.
 
Well, Dewey ran a forceful campaign that year, but he was going against the juggernaut that was Roosevelt. If Henry Wallace turns out to be particularly unlucky and/or incompetent, I could see the presidential race being very competitive, despite the war.
 
If it's Wallace against Dewey, I think Dewey wins, it probably looks something like this.
genusmap.php

Dewey 316
Wallace 215
 
If Roosevelt dies before the nomination I think that Wallace can use the advantages of the incumbency to win the nomination. tThen his again his political skills were weak. mMaybe he would make a mistake. tThe least imaginative possibility is to have FDR dying after the Electors have voted. wWallace is president until Truman takes office.
 
Have any incumbent Presidents not been nominated, even though they were legally entitled to be and wished for it? From what I've read, Wallace was pretty unpopular with parts of the Democratic Party, would being incumbent be able to overcome that unpopularity?
 
I think everyone is forgetting that the nominating process back then was very different; it was the era of the political boss and the smoke filled room. What they looked for was someone who could win and I'm not sure Wallace fit the bill. So, if FDR had died before the convention, I think the 1944 Convention is a real free-for-all. The major factions were the Northern industrial base heavily influenced by bosses and unions and the Deep South. I'm not sure Wallace would have been acceptable to the Southerners, which leaves you with some sort of compromise candidate along the lines of Truman.
 
And I think you're absolutely on target. Tammany Hall, the Chicago machine, Crump (in Memphis), Hague (in Newark/Jersey City), Curley (in Boston) and others would have a lot to say about who might succeed FDR; it's almost a given that as far to the left as he was, Wallace would have wound up a caretaker at most.

Thus you have the potential for a real tossup in '44: a relative unknown (like Truman) or a marginally acceptable type (Barkley/Byrnes/Bankhead) running against a competent but personally arctic type in the person of Dewey. Could be a race where the VP candidates-as unimportant, relatively, as they were at the time-could make a difference. Someone as personally magnetic as John Bricker (Dewey's running mate in '44 in OTL) might just be the fourth- or fifth-level tiebreaker that puts Dewey over the top albeit by the razor's edge.
 
Have any incumbent Presidents not been nominated, even though they were legally entitled to be and wished for it? From what I've read, Wallace was pretty unpopular with parts of the Democratic Party, would being incumbent be able to overcome that unpopularity?

You'd have to go back to the 19th century: the most recent example I can think of is Hayes (served one term/Garfield was nominated to succeed him). I don't count Andrew Johnson, given the impeachment. Then one goes back before the Civil War, when one encounters the same fate suffered by Buchanan and Pierce (ironically, Buchanan was nominated to succeed Pierce).
 
What Apollo said. Wallace won't be nominated. If they go with a Southerner then I guess Barkley, since from what I've read Byrnes' conversion and anti-labor stance would preclude his nomination. Or a compromise choice like Truman, but I assume they'd want someone who had at least some national name ID. I'd say Truman or Scott Lucas as VP depending on who the Dem nominee is. Wartime incumbency, the GOP being an easy target as Depression-inducing appeasers, on top of a sympathy wave for FDR translate into a comfortable Dem win IMO.
 
Wallace won't get nominated. Roosevelt was the glue that held the Democratic Party's different factions together (Tammany Hall and Chicago to the north, the Pendergast-style machines out west, and the Deep South), and his death would make the convention a free-for-all. I could easily see Wallace serving out the rest of FDR's term and giving the nomination to another compromise candidate like Truman or some other Democrat.

If that's the case, I could see Dewey pulling off a victory. FDR is dead and the Democratic nominee won't have the incumbent effect going for them. Really, I think the only thing keeping Dewey from winning in 1944 was FDR. Had it been any other candidate, Dewey would probably win.
 
What about Cordell Hull? Secretary of State is a pretty prestigious position, especially during the war. He quit SecState because of failing health, but if called to serve, would he turn it down? I like Hull/Truman quite a bit.
 
What about Cordell Hull? Secretary of State is a pretty prestigious position, especially during the war. He quit SecState because of failing health, but if called to serve, would he turn it down? I like Hull/Truman quite a bit.

Too old and unhealthy.

Noravea: As I said, still wartime, FDR sympathy wave, Dems are the majority party, GOP an easy target as Depression-inducing appeasers.
 
Too old and unhealthy.

Noravea: As I said, still wartime, FDR sympathy wave, Dems are the majority party, GOP an easy target as Depression-inducing appeasers.

I think the FDR sympathy wave would work with Wallace, but he's one of the least likely people to get the nomination even if he were an incumbent. I think considering that the Democrats had the Presidency for 12 years, the "Depression-inducing appeasers" argument might not work. Had it still been the 1930s, sure, but it's been nearly 15 years since the Depression began and a few since it ended.

The thing with the sympathy is that the person would have to be an incumbent. Which, unless the candidate is Wallace, I don't think that it would work.
 
Have any incumbent Presidents not been nominated, even though they were legally entitled to be and wished for it? From what I've read, Wallace was pretty unpopular with parts of the Democratic Party, would being incumbent be able to overcome that unpopularity?

All the 19th accidental presidents Tyler, Filmore, A Johnson and Arthur and as has been mentioned Hayes did not get nominated. As has been mentioned the only post Arthur president not to win nomination was Johnson in 68.
 
The party leaders would have opposed Wallace but he would have the power of patronage. Of course, he had weak political skills, so maybe he could not effectively use his power.
 
What if he died in early November, after the ballots are printed. wWould a majority of voters loyally support the late president? If so, for whom would the electors cast their ballots?
 
Wallace won't get nominated. Roosevelt was the glue that held the Democratic Party's different factions together (Tammany Hall and Chicago to the north, the Pendergast-style machines out west, and the Deep South), and his death would make the convention a free-for-all. I could easily see Wallace serving out the rest of FDR's term and giving the nomination to another compromise candidate like Truman or some other Democrat.

If that's the case, I could see Dewey pulling off a victory. FDR is dead and the Democratic nominee won't have the incumbent effect going for them. Really, I think the only thing keeping Dewey from winning in 1944 was FDR. Had it been any other candidate, Dewey would probably win.

I hate agreeing with your final conclusion--Dewey wins--and I was going to jump in and point out the first poster who said this was wrong because New York State would not turn on FDR's party--but then I remembered the clincher:

Dewey was from New York, NYC to be exact.

Anyone ever see Marked Woman? Quite the film noir, and ripped from contemporary headlines. Humphrey Bogart plays the crusading anti-Mob prosecutor. He's a very thinly fictionalized version of Dewey.

I'm also remembering Fiorello LaGuardia was a Republican too.

With the Democratic coalition ripping itself apart, New Deal progressive versus Dixiecrat with moderate conservative machine Democrats forming a third (fractious!) faction, if the R's could grab the most populous state in the Union they'd have it.

:mad:

Well, this also answers that other thread, the one with the poll about under what circumstances would FDR bow out of the 1940 election. The poll focused only on foreign affairs, and I voted (with the majority at the time, as it happened) that under no circumstances would FDR have sat it out, no matter how calm the situation was overseas. To this I'd add, the only circumstance where he'd withdraw would be if there was some obvious successor to himself that stood ready to hold together the whole disjoint Democratic coalition and that had the solid public popularity edge he'd earned. No such person existed, no such would be likely to (because FDR himself would pre-empt them) therefore FDR must run for a third term or toss aside everything he'd worked for.

It doesn't prove, as I also asserted, that he'd win in 1940 if matters overseas were less dark. But I think he would; he had the political capital with the majority of voters and sufficient support among enough of the nation's big capitalists. Not all of them of course but there was a whole class of industries that rose higher under the New Deal, and they ranged from comfortable with FDR to used to him.

Vice versa, as the kingpin, if he did drop dead shortly before an election the Dems are in big trouble. Maybe in a year where the R frontrunner isn't himself a New Yorker with moderate-reformist credentials, they might pull off putting in whoever they finally settle on, but not in '44 against Dewey, war or no war.
 
On the other hand--if we assume no premonitions of his impending death butterfly FDR's own actions--we do know who he would pick for his VP for his fourth term. Assuming that that happens before the Convention ends, if FDR's death is anytime between the convention and the election--the same people who voted for him OTL are going, for the most part, to vote for his handpicked successor ITTL, even if most of them have little idea who Harry Truman is and some of them might not like him. Again it's the coalition that's the thing--all members of it, right to left, understand they owe what power they have to it hanging together as the majority party, especially during wartime. That pragmatic solidarity would indeed go by the board during an open convention as everyone scrambles for advantage, but backing FDR's handpicked VP candidate is different; it means the coalition is still in place.

I think he'd lose some votes relative to OTL with a live FDR, but still win the election. Even in New York. (Of course, he'd better. He can't win without New York!)
 
It would definitely be Truman vs. Dewey in this scenario, it would be close, but this time, Dewey would win. There's no way in hell Henry Wallace gets the nomination.
 
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