Rome develops gunpowder

[Khib yusa]

Greetings,

For the Grenades, if you have a set of chemicals that when mixed catch fire or similar and they are then used to set off the gunpowder. The grenade would work without a fuse but just by the container smashing. The onlty problem with this is that there would have to be total discipline in the Legion and the grenades would have to be handed out to the Legionary troops prior to a battle. Grenades into cavalry would be a horrendous way to defend against cavalry assaults. The carnage that would be caused would be nuts.

The Tercio-like tactics? Wha...

Regards,

Khib Yusa

 

[wkwillis]

Cannon on ships beats cannon on galleys. You get a sailboat navy instead of a rowboat navy.
It's the absolute opposite of what happens to the infantry since while it takes a week to teach someone how to row, teaching them how to sail takes a bit longer.

 

[MrP]

So a sailboat cannon equipped Roman fleet? Albeit one that'd take longer to develop than the army. I'd hate to see that ambling down the west of Africa, disgorging musket-armed soldiery. I wonder, with such firepower and new sailing tactics, would the Classis Britannica end up landing troops in Scotland, Ireland and Scandinavia after a while?

 

[Condottiero]

You could have galleys equipped with guns, see the Mediterranean fleets until the XVIII century.

As for Tercio tactics, I meant combinations of firearms with polearms, specially long pikes that could be devastating against cavalry based armies.

 

[Khib yusa]

Greetings,

Sorry, I don't know much about early Renaissance tactics (Ancient World and 20th Century-ish).

There would have to be a method of stopping the gunpowder technology from leaving Roman hands to ensure their supremacy for this alternate timeline though. If it was only used for military purposes and for events in Rome like triumphs and only the most prestigeous of games then their opponents would painc when the Romans went to war.

One of the major flaws with this POD is the fact that the Romans would end up killing themselves in a civil war (very likely, but only after a massive expansion of the empire and it possibly splitting into 3 or 4 seperate entities) and then the technology would be taken by their opponents (being the oppertunistic buggers that they are). So you would get tribes like the Allamanni or the Goths wandering around with Roman arms (if they even see it as an honourable weapon) for a short period of time unless they were able to reproduce the production techniques of the Romans for the ARCVBALLISTA and the technique of producing gunpowder.

Either way the Romans would gain more but lose their Empire faster unless there was a way of having the ARCVBALLISTAS and gunpowder under the control of the Emperor or the PRAETORIAN guard only. If it was actually the PRAETORIAN guard that were the only unit to recieve the ARCVBALLISTAS but it was quadrupled in size and they rotated from being a field unit to being a garrison force every 5 or 6 years or so it may work.

Regards,

Khib Yusa

 

[MrP]

I suppose when you have 'em develop 'em. There was a lot of discussion on the last page, which I won't rehash, about when in the use of gunpowder. I rather like the idea of Roman forces using rockets for a century or so. Now show me a primitive tribe that sees fire raining from the skies when their opponent attacks and doesn't get a bit nervy. It would be a closely guarded secret for a few years, a moderately guarded secret for a few years, then poorly protected and know to all and sundry. You do need to have it used in an expansionist phase of the Empire.

I'd like it for the Teutoburger Wald, if I may A small elite unit of rocketeers is attached to the 3 legions. Nobody realises their potential in advance, and the Roman general himself thinks their poor accuracy renders them useless. However, they are comparatively speedy to deploy. When the Teutonic attacks start coming in, they are met by what seem to be either a) divine protection in the form of thunderbolts or, if you want the Germans less superstitious, b) deployed Roman heavy artillery firing flaming explosives at them that persuade them to discontinue their attack. Either way the Teutones are less likely to press it home, and if the Romans compress the line in the time available, then we might not have Augustus saying, "Varro, give me back my legions!"

I'd still see Varro removed for allowing the whole Herman/Arminius debacle in the first place - familial ties to Augustus or no. But Rome, incensed by German aggression, and still with a field army in the area, decides to make an example of those who would oppose her. Using regular tactics in combination with gunpowder they steadily conquer the area, pushing Rome's borders a bit further. The long term implications are that Rome develops an interest in applying gunpowder as a weapon. Over the course of a few centuries musketry develops, and Rome always has the capacity to out-produce her barbarian enemies. One might get enemy snipers with a few guns, or even enemy skirmisher lines. Either way I'd expect 3rd-4th century AD battles to look like ECW or similar.

More importantly, it might make Imperial philosophers try to apply their theoretical ideas in a practical sense. Mm, steam engines