Romanov Ascendant: What if the Soviet Union survived?

[TerenceofGod]

Why are the Soviets suffering such heavy losses? When the enemy is neither skilled nor well equipped and firebombed into next week.

The sheer weight of fire the Soviet Vehicles alone could output would suppress the insurgents without end.

The lack of local or foreign support should have made this an action that would suffer the losses equal to that of the US Taliban insurgency.

 

[Justinian]

Why are the Soviets suffering such heavy losses? When the enemy is neither skilled nor well equipped and firebombed into next week.

The sheer weight of fire the Soviet Vehicles alone could output would suppress the insurgents without end.

The lack of local or foreign support should have made this an action that would suffer the losses equal to that of the US Taliban insurgency.

One thing we have to figure is that many of the fighters do in fact have Soviet basic training, which is one of the reasons why the Chechens were so effective. There are a few who are skilled, and some that are equipped. When they would raid and were successful, they would strip the BMP-1P or BMP-2 of everything, including the ATGM system. I also surmised that the Americans could have smuggled them malyutkas in some small number. Compared to the taliban, i'd say they're in general better equipped, and even the untrained rabble that joined them would have been trained by them. There are also some foreign fighters in their composition.

However considering that that this is a multi division sweep and clear operation from one end of the Caucasian mountains to the other, the soviets are spending a lot of time chasing ghosts and even large columns are divided to cover more space. The last thing the general wants to do is call in other divisions from the districts and is trying to use what he brought with him. Forcing soldiers to stay in the field for over two weeks is pretty rough. I would also say to some extent they do have minimal local support, enough to get warning or basic intelligence. The main advantage I would say they have is the woods and that they can pick and choose where to fight and when. But they are suffering a massive attrition rate, they have lost probably nearly half or more of their initial force, of around 5000-6000 to both death, defection and evasion (So maybe 2000 dead or seriously wounded)

 

[Justinian]

The Last Stand:

September 15th 1993, 14:45. Last Remnants of the April 3rd Free Regiment, Near Baskal

The resistance fighters had been demoralized since the disappearance of Anyar two weeks ago. But they remembered his methods and spirit, and the more religiously aware of the group, said that he was probably martyred. They never expected the scale of the fire and destruction that would be brought down on them, or the sights of the twisted and deformed human bodies it left, if they left anything at all. Despite this, by using camouflages, by staging bold attacks where many of their friends were brought down immediately, they had inflicted on the communist beast many wounds. But defection was becoming a real problem now, even when one of the attempted defectors, a 17 year old who they had recruited from one of the villages, was hung from a nearby tree. The sounds of jets flying above their head and the familiar rumble of artillery fire confirmed that they had finally fixed their position. It was tunneled into the mountain and almost functioned as their HQ. At worst case they would fight from the woods and from the bunkers, and would retreat to the series of tunnels and make them fight them tooth and nail for it.

September 15th 1993, 17:10. Frontal Element of the 35th Guards Rifle Regiment, Near Baskal

Fedor and Dimitri had seen every hardship of this campaign, their entire company was elated when they had found a functioning sink in a village a couple days ago so they could finally wash up. They almost no sympathy for the rebels, be they ignorant teenagers, foreign terrorists or even if they spoke their same language. They were increasingly anxious, wary of falling into a one of the traps that the rebels had dug. Similar to the punji sticks of Vietnam. To a lone sniper who would often shoot three of their men before being blasted into oblivion. Fedor was starting to reconsider his career choice.

The worst of the fighting was over, they had managed to blow the bunkers with RPOs and wipe out most of those who were left fighting from the deep woods. The KGB started to arrive, in cars or the finest BTR-82s they've seen. They were there to ensure that the surrenders were accepted. They also said they offered fire support of course. The infantry followed behind the BMPs and BTRs, closing the distance to what was once a concrete shed. Three men raised a white flag, waving it on a stick, they were taken in. As the distance was closed, the infantry had finally made it to the tunnels. The soldiers were mortified, they heard of trying to clear these things, how difficult it would be and how they stood to die at the end of the campaign. Second Lieutenant Gurgen was arguing with one of the KGB officers, but it seemed like they ultimately came to agreement. The soldiers baby sat the tunnel for a few more hours into the night, their headlamps blaring light onto the entrance. A truck had arrived, full of petrol barrels. The soldiers were ordered to pour the petrol into the tunnel. By the time they finished, they already found an appropriate metal piece that would serve as whoever was in there's tomb. Before they were about to light it up, several gas covered rebels crawled out, in ripped clothes, smelling like gas and filth. They were arrested. When they wouldn't give clear answers they were beaten, they said there were a lot men in there, who didn't intend on coming out.

It didn't take long, the Soviet Soldiers lit the petrol on fire, threw the metal piece on top of the tunnels entrance, and drove a T-72 over it. Surely there could be an exit, but the smoke and burning would most likely cauterize what had become a problem of the General Secretary and his subordinates for months, and ending the dreams of many that the Soviet Union could be opposed, either by political action or arms.

 

[TerenceofGod]

Soviet combat divisions especially in a slow methodical march would decimate any force it encounters, an entire division could cover 3-10kms of frontage in according to terrain.

The insurgents would have a window of 30secs-5mins to attack and disengage any Forward Column, if they fail or are pinned they are doomed. We should not forget that Soviet Doctrine places MBT's and IFV's as Forward units which we be hard targets to destroy or defend against.

 

[Justinian]

Soviet combat divisions especially in a slow methodical march would decimate any force it encounters, an entire division could cover 3-10kms of frontage in according to terrain.

The insurgents would have a window of 30secs-5mins to attack and disengage any Forward Column, if they fail or are pinned they are doomed. We should not forget that Soviet Doctrine places MBT's and IFV's as Forward units which we be hard targets to destroy or defend against.

Absolutely, in a scenario where you have an entire division to cover what is mostly a linear front line of 3-10 kilometers. In this situation, the overall commander was trying to use as few divisions as possible, so he broke them down into their individual regiments and used platoon sized elements to clear what for the most part was empty or civilian filled countryside. If he had take more divisions, spent more time and methodically moved, according to your tactic, the rebels. The Soviet Army would have suffered far less losses, although some losses would be inevitable. Snipers, improvised explosive devices, etc. They had to clear many villages, many empty or still inhabited, three men with an RPG-7 could easily inflict at the minimal 7-14 kills if they were to hit a BTR-80 with an RPG. This would probably prove to be suicidal, but could be accomplished.


There are some personal politics involved in these military decisions too. Grigoriev would rather take the extra casualties, move hastily and make these vast operational movements across the entire southern caucasian mountain ranges.

 

[boredviewer1234]

Well their goes any large scale insurgency in the Caucasian mountains , I would not be shocked if a few people got away to try and got some azeri republic in exile set up in the United states well try to, Turkey is a far way away to get to, though if they have any video equipment or cameras ect they might be able to reveal ''the oppression in atheist USSR'' and ''war crimes committed against freedom fighters'' for more PR in the world.

I do like how this operation was kind of rushed, bloody yet successful. Probably has to do with a lot of front line first quality units sent to Afghanistan and the Party trying to out this wildfire before it spreads. I imagine the families won't be informed of when and how for a long while their sons died to prevent information from leaking out. It sometimes took months if not years to get a zinc coffin back home from Afghanistan after all. Sucks but well this USSR is a bit softer but far more technocratic oppression .

Still this is the cost of Black ops that the Party hope will disappear preferably forever.

O yeah I forgot, North Korea in this timeline is doing far better, likely a poor, oppressive dictatorship but far more richer with the USSR around without the risk of the famine killing millions of people and China has far less influence over them.

 

[ChadMachine999]

Is China still doing privatization ITTL.

 

[King Nazar]

Cuba and North Korea will certainly be doing better in the 90s. I don't think North Korea will be trying to develop a nuclear bomb and this could maybe allow some kind of detente with the south and work with them on their Sunshine Policy.
On the other hand, I think Saddam's Iraq would not be under sanctions and their military would still be intact so maybe Saddam tries to restart his nuclear program? If he does that I think the Soviets might decide to throw him under the bus in exchange for a deal with the Americans to work on arms control and restore Detente.

 

[Justinian]

Well their goes any large scale insurgency in the Caucasian mountains , I would not be shocked if a few people got away to try and got some azeri republic in exile set up in the United states well try to, Turkey is a far way away to get to, though if they have any video equipment or cameras ect they might be able to reveal ''the oppression in atheist USSR'' and ''war crimes committed against freedom fighters'' for more PR in the world.

Absolutely right, I think that overall the the CIA would be aware of the crackdown, but because of the speed taken in launching it and the lack of coverage or media, it couldn't really be used as propaganda or even as that much of a news story. In a few months a few survivors may filter out, or those that had snuck away when it became clear that militarily a coordinated response made any attempt of serious resistance intangible.

I do like how this operation was kind of rushed, bloody yet successful. Probably has to do with a lot of front line first quality units sent to Afghanistan and the Party trying to out this wildfire before it spreads. I imagine the families won't be informed of when and how for a long while their sons died to prevent information from leaking out. It sometimes took months if not years to get a zinc coffin back home from Afghanistan after all. Sucks but well this USSR is a bit softer but far more technocratic oppression .

True, and for the most part the Soviets kept their best quality divisions in Europe and generally in the west. I wouldn't negatively rate the quality of the these military units though, a lot of these divisions may have been half reservist/conscript, but generally on the border of what I would consider maybe 7.5 or 8.5/10 in terms of Soviet Army quality.

On the human element, you are absolutely right. That was an unfortunate reality of the Soviet state, a lot of those men who died would end up getting a secret funeral, perhaps with honours but still dug in a mass grave. The only notification their families given is that either in the case of officers, a story invented of dying in Afghanistan, or in the case of lower level enlisted, training accidents. As far as being technocratic you are right, and in this context the Soviets could accept losses in Afghanistan, but to give official acknowledgement of a full scale revolt and crackdown is far beyond reality. No one in authority would even consider it.

Still this is the cost of Black ops that the Party hope will disappear preferably forever.

O yeah I forgot, North Korea in this timeline is doing far better, likely a poor, oppressive dictatorship but far more richer with the USSR around without the risk of the famine killing millions of people and China has far less influence over them.

North Korea will certainly be doing better in the 90s. I don't think North Korea will be trying to develop a nuclear bomb and this could maybe allow some kind of detente with the south and work with them on their Sunshine Policy.

They would be definitely doing better, absolutely no million death famine, one question I have personally is if they would go with China, perhaps take the Dengist approach, given that the lack of stability that forced their regime into such desperate tyrannical despotism/totalitarianism doesn't exist?

Cuba would be definitely better off, no huge amounts of people emigrating in the 90s on rafts, more industrial development. Their climate is perfect for producing cash crops that can be used as luxuries in the eastern bloc. I could honestly see the Soviets bringing them into a worldwide mutual defence and economic alliance, that would rival both NATO and the EU in economic and military integration.

On the other hand, I think Saddam's Iraq would not be under sanctions and their military would still be intact so maybe Saddam tries to restart his nuclear program? If he does that I think the Soviets might decide to throw him under the bus in exchange for a deal with the Americans to work on arms control and restore Detente.

Yes, overall the Iraqi military came out of the Gulf War stronger, not weaker. The experience of doing battle with the Saudis and Egyptians, along with all of the Soviet training and technical expertise would have only increased their power. The cancelling/annulling/ignoring of their debts would only increase the amount of money Saddam could throw at industrial development as well as manufacture of WMDs. With the hubris of victory, and despite the increased Soviet presence in the country, he definitely would contiune his efforts at developing a nuclear weapon; which is as you have identified going to become a serious problem.

 

[Justinian]

The Summer of 1993

The Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc:

• The Military Intervention in the Caucasian Mountains by the Soviet Army resulted in about three hundred total casualties, including wounded and friendly fire incidents, and resulted in the deaths of at least a thousand civilians. Tens of thousands if not hundreds were internally displaced, but later housed or moved to the cities, or back to their villages once rebuilt. Some villages became towns as a result of the rebuilding.

• The Soviet Union continued to both boast and claim that it's population was free of the disease of HIV/AIDS, as well as the western decadent and degenerate issue of serial killing. Yet facilities for the testing of blood were built, and the importation of western technology for the mass testing of blood for diseases like HIV was still imported when legal or stolen. While the conditions generally did not favor the spread of sexual diseases from the west to the Eastern Bloc, contact still happened, especially in Eastern Europe. An illicit or covert blood testing effort was organized, and those with HIV/AIDS were generally quarantined or removed from society. A town was built in the Kuril Islands, to both colonize the Island and silently dispose of this group of people, which also included those extradited from East Germany, Czechoslovakia and Poland. Each did not want the associated expense or embarrassment of dealing with this problem and referred to the center, which simply swept the problem under the rug. Andrei Chikatilo, one of the most infamous serial killers in the Soviet Union, was caught when CCTV footage was used in addition to a serious investigative effort to figure out that he was the one who had murdered 52 (mostly women and a few boys) from the late 60s to 1980s, and had escaped justice several times, despite the fact he was even arrested in the 1980s. Chikatilo's story was almost tragic, he was exposed to serious psychological abuse during the second world war, including the possible rape of his mother in front of him, and the mother's own domineering nature (berating him for wetting the bed during wartime, because they shared it). He was chronically impotent, and apparently could only become erect by rape, and later by killing. (He's a very interesting case study for those who take the psychoanalytic approach seriously). He was tortured, he admitted to his crimes and was tortured even more severely and than finally liquidated, while punished, his crimes remained unknown to the world.

• Poland was finally able to implement an improved variant of the EGSVT system, thanks to Soviet investment. It improved some aspects of the Polish economy, which still underperformed.

• Footage of a man trying to climb the Berlin Wall, being hit with the new Eastern Bloc equivalent of a taser, and dragged back into East Germany was recorded and broadcast in the west.

• An attempt on Milosevic's life was made in Belgrade, Yugoslavia. A Croatian man, armed with a 9mm pistol and a grenade, attempted an assassination. Milosevic survived, when he thrusted a female assistant in front of him, who took a fatal round to the chest, and then he successively took a round to to the hip. The attempted assassin was wrestled to the ground while trying to trigger the grenade. Milosevic was airlifted to East Berlin for medical treatment, where he remained as he recovered. This resulted in various Yugoslavian Party members making an attempt on his job. This apparently caused him more stress than the metal fragments lodged in his body, that had yet to be removed. The details remained obscure, but the Soviets and Yugoslavians did not manage to avoid this story from being spread to the west. It was becoming more clear that there was some kind of serious resistance effort in Yugoslavia in the western conscious. Some western pundits and speakers went as far as to call the assassin a hero.

• Erich Honecker, the General Secretary of the Socialist Unity Party of East Germany, had taken ill. He was afflicted with cancer of the liver, and was treated by the best Soviet and East German doctors. Despite the best medicine the Soviets and Eastern Bloc could offer, it was determined at best he had a year to live. He begun the process of choosing a successor, and planned to confer with Romanov, a man that he was said to deeply admire and respect. They shared a brief friendship, and it was said that Romanov, already in some sort of melancholy or dismay after his visit to Iraq, was hit hard by the news and immediately travelled to East Germany to spend time with the man.

The Middle East:

• Yitzhak Rabin, the Prime Minister of Israel, the child of emigrants from the Soviet Union, under increasing pressure, PLO terrorism and Arab revanchism was under pressure from both the military and conservative establishment to protect the security of the Jewish State. When a skirmish between a Syrian Arab Army unit and the IDF and SLA Forces escalated into a full blown brigade sized battle after the latter ignored UN peacekeepers, to strike a PLO base north of Tyre. The Peacekeepers were forced to retreat from a nearly 15 kilometer UN mandated blue line. The battle was inconclusive as the Israelis and SLA withdrew. The Syrians had managed to hold the line and inflict losses, especially on the SLA. This created a full blown crisis in the IDF, as it had become believed that they were losing conventional superiority to the Syrians, who in their eyes, were much too close to Saddam's Iraq. Many within the IDF argued that they needed to strike the Syrian Army and Airforce so decisively and destructively while they still had the advantage, while the Soviets attentions were pointed elsewhere (occurring around the same time as the Milosevic assassination attempt) however, Rabin, an advocate of peace poured cold water on these attempts. Tensions were at their highest on the Golan Heights, but besides the minor skirmish, the conflict did not escalate. The Israelis had become more increasingly concerned about the Iraqi nuclear program, which was according to their intelligence going ahead at full speed.

• Martial Law had to be declared in Cairo and many other cities in Egypt as popular discontent began to spread. President Mubarak was rapidly losing the support of the military, the police and security services. He appealed to an unsympathetic US or French President. The UK was in the midst of another election. He had already burnt his bridges with the Soviet Union. By the 23rd of October, 1993, sensing what was coming, he fled to Switzerland with millions of dollars and with his family. The Egyptian Army immediately took control of the country, but announced that this was intended as a preliminary move before a new constitution was introduced.

 

[NickOn]

A common joke recorded by KGB operatives recently declassified:
Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Nikita Krushchev, and Leonid Brezhnev, and Grigory Romanov are all travelling together in a railway carriage. Unexpectedly, the train stops. Lenin orders a Subbotnik to fix the crisis. Somehow this doesn't work. Stalin then executes the train crew, but the train doesn't start moving. Khrushchev rehabilitates the dead crew and orders the track behind them be placed in front of them. But still the train doesn't move. Then Brezhnev suggests they close the curtains and rock back and forth to pretend they are moving. Romanov steps in and places the management of trains under a large system of computers. The train still doesn't move

 

[Justinian]

The Three Kings and their Conversation.

October 1st 1993. 17:23. East Berlin, Marx Memorial University Hospital, Special Wing

All three men could speak Russian, it came easier to Milosevic than Honecker's , which sounded artificial, accented and overly academic. But that could forgiven, because for a german at least he had a sense of humor. Romanov was an older man but no older than Honecker, Milosevic was on the way to recovery. Fucking Croat Scum... Milosevic made a toast to Honecker "You've proven to be a friend to me while I've been here, I havent known you long but I see you as a good man and an even better communist. I toast to you proving those frauds (charlatans) wrong!" Milosevic downed the high grade vodka down without blinking. Romanov who had been quiet lately seemed to forget whatever was troubling him as he clacked his shot glass against the table. Honecker couldn't help but shudder, but years of diplomacy with Russians had trained his gag reflex, but apparently not his liver. Romanov looked at him "Absolutely! Honecker, your accomplishments and service to your people make mine look like nothing." They both knew that was wrong, but Honecker appreciated that he would say that. Honecker replied "You, don't have to illustrate an artistic picture for me. I am beginning to come to terms with it. But Grigory, let me say, there were times I doubted we could hold on. The imperialists, the capitalists, it seemed like they almost had us, like the barbarians at the gates of Rome. This new generation" All three men grimaced.

Just as Romanov began pouring another round as he said. "Don't forget Honecker, the communism Marx had promised us is so close, I don't know if I'll live to see it" Milosevic looked at him. "But if the Barbarians were at the gates, you were the one who manned the walls. I drink to that, and to those who come after us, so that communism may one day be achieved." All three men clinked their shot glasses against each other, this round seemed to go down easier than the last. Romanov looked at Milosevic and chuckled "I was in a bad mood since I came back from the south." He paused "I gotta admit, when I read the report of what occurred, I had a good laugh" Honecker even smiled, not even looking for permission as he had been trained to do all those years ago. Milosevic looked down and pretended to feel shame, while he put his eyes at his feet, Romanov rolled his eyes at Honecker, who had to suppress another laugh. Romanov slapped Milosevic "No need to feign shame, I've done and seen much worse. I can't tell you what I'd do to avoid a defeat let alone letting me die for some perverse scum's satisfaction. Let's have one more round, for her" Milosevic looked up and nodded, maybe he did feel a slight bit of shame.

As hours passed, Milosevic retired, according to his doctors he shouldn't have been drinking at all. Honecker and Romanov talked, of the good old days, Romanovs predecessors, how they all used to laugh about Brezhnev. Romanov asked him how his lips tasted and they both laughed. Honecker wasn't supposed to drink either, but he figured what did he have to lose. Their carousing went on, but only because Romanov had an increasingly hard time accepting the loss of this old friend. "Me and you Romanov, we are relics of a different time. You have more time, make sure you prepare, prepare the... the... next series of people err.. generation for the future. They have no idea Romanov, the price, how it is. We are so close but so far away" Romanov seldom thought of his own mortality. "Don't be so serious Erich, this is not our last conversation. I'll see you tomorrow and the next time, we will be at the beach sharing some rum with Fidel."

 

[Alpha-King98760]

I’m certain things won’t be going well for Honecker or Milosevic.

On a different note, did the Rwandan Genocide still occur?

 

[Adeimantus]

What is happening in western Europe after all these events? How have things changed? Will there be a common Euro currency ITTL?

 

[Justinian]

The entire point of the last two (3 and 4) chapters was to demonstrate why a very common viewpoint or argument regarding the Soviet Union is inherently false. The argument usually being that the Soviet Union was already in a state of collapse by 1985. It's very much steeped in ignorance, now even if we were to consider the blow dealt by Chernobyl, which was expensive, the Soviets ultimately had the rising price of oil on their side. So I looked at Andropov's Soviet Union, and I considered exactly what he would do if he had regional dissent in a republic, and considered it against Gorbachev's response in 1989 and 1990. What Gorbachev did, other than appear in Pizza Hut commercials and introduce state/private capitalism, was completely punctured the KGB's ability to react to dissent. This combined with the lack of control of information, the lack of censorship, almost immediately led to extremes of nationalism, the formation of political parties. Gorbachev even allowed multiparty democracy, forced it on both the Warsaw Pact States and some of the Republics which did in fact reject it, knowing it would lead to demagogues.

However, I also wanted to consider that even if Grigory Romanov did do all of the things I said he did to the degree he did, to some degree foreign backed intelligence forces throwing money around could have helped organized nationalist movements in some of the peripheries. The same reason why Romanov avoided Gorbachev's pitfalls was because he used methods that alienated people. He was very much a steel hand in a velvet glove. Yet, given the resources available to him, namely loyal local administrators, an intact, loyal Soviet Army and the KGB, makes secession in Azerbaijan as likely as it randomly occurring in Texas. At the minimal he could easily prevent a 'Baku uprising' scenario, and even in the furthest and arguably one of the lesser loyal republics, there was no way they were going to seize the city. It was simply impossible. This makes a Chechen War style situation completely impossible too, and demonstrates effectively why that if someone has the will to wield the scepter and the men willing to follow orders, generally they'll stay in power. He could have easily introduced the dengist method, capitalism without political reforms, and still maintained this ability.

What is happening in western Europe after all these events? How have things changed? Will there be a common Euro currency ITTL?

I would say they're getting pulled, there would be a massive draw to both right and left wing radicalism, especially nationalism. Whereas the 'reasonable' parties like the Social Democrats, Christian Democrats, Liberals or etc band together to push for increased European unity. The Euro will be introduced, there is talk of increased military cooperation. It'll become an electoral issue in the United Kingdom and France, which is something I will probably address in the winter of 1994.

I’m certain things won’t be going well for Honecker or Milosevic.

On a different note, did the Rwandan Genocide still occur?

I would think that the shoot down of Juvenal Habyarimana's plane may or may not happen, Rwanda definitely would collapse into ethnic violence and civil war. Arguably you would have to either have a full blown intervention or something we're not covering to prevent it from happening, like Idi Amin's regime not collapsing or etc.

 

[Belka DNW]

Europanzer 30 years sooner, also is Venezuela fully in the soviet sphere? Are they a socialist republic? And what about the LGBT situation in the eastern block, persecuted or just can't get married/adopt?

 

[Nivek]

Computers, games

Umm famiclones

 

[boredviewer1234]

Well the Middle East will certainly have a interesting future, I get the distinct feeling that the the West would rather move Egypt into a more Islamist vision and use it as a base camp to train militant armies help undermine Iraq, Syria and other pro soviet ''godless'' forces and help ''pacify'' Sudan and possibly even intervene against Ethiopia one day given their a Soviet ally at the moment near the horn of Africa, close to the red sea and more importantly are if are surrounded by countries that want to annex part of them like Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea or are pro western Djibouti and Kenya.

On the other hand the Egyptian army does not want give up any power and Pan Arabism has recently rather than die a slow death has gotten a large revival.

 

[ChadMachine999]

Egypt is gonna have the 2011 revolution regardless of weather or not he Soviets are still around.

 

[Justinian]

Europanzer 30 years sooner, also is Venezuela fully in the soviet sphere? Are they a socialist republic? And what about the LGBT situation in the eastern block, persecuted or just can't get married/adopt?

Venezuela is definitely Soviet aligned, but is suffering from political chaos as the various powers within the leftist junta jockey against each other. The situation with LGBT rights would probably have proceeded as it did in the 1980s, generally regarded as a mental illness, however there would be more of a push from within the party to regularize their situation. I find it difficult to believe it would be hard for Romanov and his generation to reconcile this, despite the fact he is an atheist. However, East Germany would probably have a fairly progressive policy, but it would be hard to say if it unofficial or official, because the HIV connotations that were more emphasized in the 1990s.

Umm famiclones

Pretty much lmao

Well the Middle East will certainly have a interesting future, I get the distinct feeling that the the West would rather move Egypt into a more Islamist vision and use it as a base camp to train militant armies help undermine Iraq, Syria and other pro soviet ''godless'' forces and help ''pacify'' Sudan and possibly even intervene against Ethiopia one day given their a Soviet ally at the moment near the horn of Africa, close to the red sea and more importantly are if are surrounded by countries that want to annex part of them like Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea or are pro western Djibouti and Kenya.

On the other hand the Egyptian army does not want give up any power and Pan Arabism has recently rather than die a slow death has gotten a large revival.

There would definitely be remnants of CIA programs, that via their pejorative originally given manage to encourage 'anti soviet' political activity in Egypt, and this would probably be focused on the muslim brotherhood. However, without a cooperative President, and the UK's wavering commitment, I couldn't see any major active western support. However, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and etc would definitely be supporting the Islamists, as would the radical terrorist groups that are growing completely unhindered in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

The Egyptian Army is a major factor however, the vast majority of their officers would rather fight a civil war before allowing the Muslim Brotherhood to take control. I would think they may try to appeal to the Soviet Union for assistance.