Roman Timeline

DominusNovus

DuQuense said:
No Revolt, = No Temple Destroyed,= No Disporia,= No Jews in Europe Major. Those Butterflies arn't just kicking up a gentle Breeze, Whe are talking Full blown Hurricane here. :eek:
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lol, didn't the whole conquering parthia and most of Europe kill the possibility of a gentle breeze?

BTW, there're basicly two possibilities that this TL can head for:
1) With societies more interconnected and developed, scientific and industrial revolutions kick off very early (before or around turn of millenium), and we get modern day technology circa 2000... AUC (circa AD 1250).
2) Huns, Mongols, plagues, etc. manage to keep things in check and things proceed only a little quicker than OTL (less than one century). Big difference is that all of the important states of Europe (from the baltic to Spain) have romance languages.

Of course, all of this is still well in the future of the TL, and I may very well do both (as plan #1 would be disqualified for the ICN) if I'm feeling ambitious.
 
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DominusNovus

have another update guys, on the house.

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Quintus Flavius Severus would be the Western Roman Emperor from AD 204 until AD 225. Severus would be an effective emperor, though he was one of the most autocratic Rome ever saw.

Severus was a diehard Roman, who mistrusted those he viewed as barbarians, including the Gothonians (who were quite Romanized by this time), the Heruli, and even the provincials in the distant reaches of the Western Empire. This mistrust was shown clearly by his policies as emperor. He made citizenship harder to attain, increased the tax burdens of the provinces, and increased the size of the army, to quell any unrest.

These policies did not earn him any favor in the provinces, or in the city of Rome itself, which also suffered from high taxes. All in all, there were 7 official attempts on his life, each of which failed and only succeeded in making him more paranoid.

Starting in the year AD 225, Severus began to campaign against the Gothonians, a longtime ally of Rome. Severus made no attempt to hide his disdain for these longtime allies and saw them only as a powerful threat. This would be Severus' most unpopular action as emperor, and was most hated by the soldiers he was commanding, who didn't want to risk their lives fighting a longtime ally and friend. Vincentius sent several letters to Severus to try to dissuade him, but to no avail.

The first battle of the campaign was fought outside of Sciripolis, a Gothonian town on the mouth of the Vistula river. The battle began in the Romans' favor, mainly due to the fact that they outnumbered the Gothonians. However, Severus, not satisfied with his soldiers performance, rode up to the front lines, to rally his troops. At this point, his horse was hit with several arrows and collapsed. Severus fell off and was crushed under the weight.

As news of his death raced through the Roman lines, chaos overcame the Legionaries. Some commanders ordered their troops to retreat, some continued to fight, and some even surrendered to the Gothonians.

Severus would be succeeded by Gaius Julius Varus, one of his commanders. He lacked the skill of Severus, and the Legions did not have the same mixture of fear, awe, and respect of him as they had of Severus. Large portions of the invasion force deserted, some even defected, and Varus had to order a general retreat.

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MerryPrankster

Then by all means, let the wild rumpus start!

I imagine the Goths will take advantage of their victory and the death of the Emperor to pull a Manzikert and seize a good-sized portion of the Western Empire in the aftermath of the Empire's political implosion. Other tribes to the East (perhaps even those defeated by the Eastern Emperors and looking for something else to do) will want a piece of the action.

What about our "Mohammed"?
 

DominusNovus

Matt, you're about dead on with the Manzikert analogy, though the chunk the Gothonians take is relatively small (the Western Empire is too big to take a large chunk out of). "Mohammad" won't come around for a century or two, after mainstream christian sects (with political disintigration happening before christianization, one group won't automatically dominate) have established themselves pretty well.

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Gaius Julius Varus would rule the Western Roman Empire from AD 225 to AD 233. His reign would see the beginning of the disintegration of the Empire.

By the time Varus was able to restore order to the legions, things were looking grim. Over half of the readily available forces were gone, and the remainder were demoralized after losing their commander in a battle against an ally. The Gothonians had considerable momentum and were invading Roman territory across the Vistula.

In the second battle of the Gothonian War, at Colonia Neposia, Varus' legions were defeated by the Gothonian army under the command of King Visimaris. After another defeat at Castra Aurelia, Varus came to the conclusion that he couldn't win. He negotiated a treaty with Visimaris that gave the Gothonians the provinces of Lemovia, Burgundia, and Vandalia, effectively pushing the Roman frontier back to the Viadrus.

Varus then returned to Rome to address the governance of the Empire. He faced an unruly military that didn't respect him and an overtaxed populace. The only way he could see to placate the military was to raise their funding, which meant higher taxes. This, of course, proved very unpopular, and Varus was assassanited by several Senators in AD 233. Upon Varus' death, the Senate proclaimed that the Republic was restored. The situation would not work out exactly as the Senate had hoped.

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MerryPrankster

"He negotiated a treaty with Visimaris that gave the Gothonians the provinces of Lemovia, Burgundia, and Vandalia, effectively pushing the Roman frontier back to the Viadrus."

It's been so long since we discussed the Vandal War that I'm not entirely sure where "Vandalia" is. Is Burgundia like OTL's Burgundy (near France)? Where's Lemovia? Is the Viadrus an OTL river, or is it a Latin/Roman name for one that, in our world, had a Germanic/Slavic name?

Excellent work on the TL so far...very interesting world.

While the West is collapsing, what's happening in the East? The Eastern Emperor is supposed to help out in the event of emergency, right? Or does he have his own problems?

The restoration of the Republic is an interesting idea. Something tells me the army, or at least a good-sized part of it, isn't going to cotton to the idea. "The situation would not work out exactly as the Senate had hoped" certainly sounds ominous.
 

DominusNovus

Matt Quinn said:
"He negotiated a treaty with Visimaris that gave the Gothonians the provinces of Lemovia, Burgundia, and Vandalia, effectively pushing the Roman frontier back to the Viadrus."

It's been so long since we discussed the Vandal War that I'm not entirely sure where "Vandalia" is. Is Burgundia like OTL's Burgundy (near France)? Where's Lemovia? Is the Viadrus an OTL river, or is it a Latin/Roman name for one that, in our world, had a Germanic/Slavic name?

Excellent work on the TL so far...very interesting world.

While the West is collapsing, what's happening in the East? The Eastern Emperor is supposed to help out in the event of emergency, right? Or does he have his own problems?

The restoration of the Republic is an interesting idea. Something tells me the army, or at least a good-sized part of it, isn't going to cotton to the idea. "The situation would not work out exactly as the Senate had hoped" certainly sounds ominous.
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The Viadrus is the Oder River. So Gothonia basicly is the baltic states and Poland. Burgundia is just basicly the middle region of the territory between the Viadrus and Vistula river (the northern region being Lemovia, and the southern region being Vandalia).

The Eastern Emperor does have its own problems, but its mainly interested in isolationism right now, screw the west (unless, of course, the east needed some help).

The restoration of the republic will work. Well, kinda. There's plenty of ambitious officers in the Legions right now, and little loyalty to Rome, which has been screwing over the provinces for over a generation.
 

DominusNovus

I think I'm making up for lost time. Well, here you guys go, the end of the Western Empire (it didn't last very long, did it?).

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In AD 233, the Roman Republic was restored with the assassination of Emperor Gaius Julius Varus. The Senate and the People of Rome would again rule.

Well, that was the idea, at least. However, there was trouble from the start. The Senate only had the loyalty of a fraction of the legions. To make matters worse, there were several charismatic and ambitious commanders in the military, just jumping at the chance to become the next Caesar.

The first general to rebel was Decius Crispus Agricola, who had the support of the African and Egyptian Legions. Meanwhile, in Hispania, the Legions supported Numerius Sidonius Trajanus. The Senate might have been able to quell these usurpers, had Trajanus been more ambitious. However, he was content to rule just Hispania and made an alliance with Agricola, preventing the Republic from playing the two commanders against each other. In addition, this treaty also prompted another general Oppius Helvetius Catus, who was supported by the legions in Germania (rougly between the Rhenus and Viadrus). Catus soon joined the new alliance, opening up yet another front on the civil war.

Still, there was hope for the Republic in the Eastern Roman Empire. They were, after all, bound by treaty to defend the Western Roman Empire. However, the Emperor of the East, Herius Asinius Caspar, supported yet another general, Decius Tadius Balbus, popular in Thracia, Pannonia, and Dacia.

Assaulted on all sides, the Roman Republic lost battle after battle. By AD 235, Gallia was under the control of the rebels, cutting off Britannia from Italia. Cut off from Republican authority and support, the Britannic Isles became more and more autonomous, eventually declaring its own independence in AD 238.

However, the Roman Republic would be save from extinction by an unlikely ally, the Gothonian King Visimaris. With the Gothonians in the war, the war stabilized. On one side, there were the rebels, Agricola, Trajanus, and Catus. Then there was Balbus, with the backing of the eastern empire. Last, but not least, were the Roman and Britannic Republics, allied with the Regnum Gothonia.

The Civil War would drag on for another 5 years, without much change on any front of the war. It was at this time that the so called "Imperatoris Pacum" (Generals of Peace). These commanders arose by appealing to the people's hopes for independence and an end to the war . The first country to rebel was Aegyptus, followed Gallia. The rebels' position seemed to be weakening, with revolts in their respective core regions. Balbus was about to press his advantage when he face similar revolts in Pannonia and Dacia.

The Imperatoris Pacum quickly made peace with the Republicans. Those in rebel land made peace with Balbus, those in Balbus' land made peace with the rebels. The rest of the war was simply a winding down as various factions stopped fighting. The official end came in AD 247, when Aegyptus made peace with Agricola's African Empire. As the dust settled, the map of Europe was now divided into several new states.

From east to west, there was the Britannic Republic, African Empire, Hispanian Empire, Gallic Kingdom, Germanian Empire, Roman Republic (composed of Italia, Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily, Greece, and Crete), Pannonian Kingdom, Gothonian Kingdom, Dacian Kingdom, Thracian Empire, and the Egyptian Kingdom. The Western Roman Empire was, to put it mildly, dead (though the Roman Republic would claim to be the successor, as would the Thracian Empire).

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This leaves Europe basicly in the situation of the middle ages, except that the varying states are relatively urban nations, compared to OTL. They're also almost purely Roman, except for Gothonia, with is a Romano-Germanic nation (they were incorporating much of Roman culture on their own, then they conquered heavily Romanized territory). I'll give you guys a map in a bit.

Of course, I'm open to and interesting in any thoughts or ideas you guys have.
 

MerryPrankster

Excellent Work

Excellent work, Dominus. It seems you've collapsed the entire Roman Empire in just a few years, all triggered by one unlucky Emperor being squashed by his horse.

Bravo!

Whither Christianity? When times get nasty, people start questioning their established assumptions. I imagine with all these wars and social breakdowns, Christianity would be spreading like wildfire.

Other "Eastern mystery cults" (Mithras, Isis, Bacchals, etc) might spread quickly as well--without the brownie points (and on occasion, physical backing) from being the "official religion of the Roman Empire," Christianity might face more competition in this TL.

Plus we've got our "Mohammed" waiting in the wings...
 

DominusNovus

Matt Quinn said:
Excellent work, Dominus. It seems you've collapsed the entire Roman Empire in just a few years, all triggered by one unlucky Emperor being squashed by his horse.

Bravo!

Whither Christianity? When times get nasty, people start questioning their established assumptions. I imagine with all these wars and social breakdowns, Christianity would be spreading like wildfire.

Other "Eastern mystery cults" (Mithras, Isis, Bacchals, etc) might spread quickly as well--without the brownie points (and on occasion, physical backing) from being the "official religion of the Roman Empire," Christianity might face more competition in this TL.

Plus we've got our "Mohammed" waiting in the wings...
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Thanks. Christianity will become the dominant religion, but, with a less centralized region, it will be a decentralized religion in the beginning. It'll try to centralize itself when order is restored, but it won't quite work.
 

DominusNovus

Here's whats happening in the east, btw. Not nearly as interesting, of course.

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Appius Claudius Vincentius would rule the Eastern Roman empire from AD 204 to AD 228. His 24 years as emperor were relatively peaceful, virtually nothing eventful happening.

Vincentius did try to stop Severus from invading Gothonian territory, but was unsuccessful. While he bound by treaty to defend the western empire against its enemies, Vincentius did not send any assistance, as Severus was clearly the aggressor.

Vincentius would die of old age in AD 228, after a long and uneventful reign. He would be succeeded by his son, Appius Claudius Diodorus.

Diodorus would also rule for a long time, from AD 228 to AD 249. It was during his reign that the Western Civil War occured and organized persecution of Christians began.

When the war broke out, Diodorus was torn, as he did not support the Republic, seeing it as an unstable institution. He also didn't support Agricola, simply because the two did not get along at all. So, Diodorus found a commander who he felt he could control, Balbus. By supporting Balbus, Diodorus effectively eliminated any chance that the civil war would end quickly.

Diodorus had planned assisting Balbus in the war, but the Kushans to the east were again causing trouble, forcing him to downscale the support he could provide. The end of the war was a disappointment to Diodorus, though he was comforted by the fact that none of the opposing sides really won.

The other noteworthy aspect of Diodorus' reign was his unprecedented persecution of Christians. There were major Christian sects in Anatolia and Syria, as well as smaller ones in Armenia and Mesopotamia. Diodorus was suspicious of them and began massive persecutions against the Christians. While the number of executions is often exaggerated, it is known that Josephus IV, king of Judea (which had long persecuted Christians as heretics), was appalled and provided refuge to some.

The persecutions drove many Christians out of the Empire, though some simply went to Anatolia, where Christians were actually becoming a sizable minority (estimates run to about 30-40%). By the time of Diodorus' death, Anatolia was in open revolt.

Diodorus died in AD 249, leaving the Eastern Empire to his son, Sextus Claudius Sophus.

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MerryPrankster

What happens to Anatolia? Does it successfully sever itself from the Eastern Empire, or is it put down gorily? What happens to Christianity as a result of this? If it's gorily put down, does that mean that pacifism becomes a bigger part of Christianity or, if successful, do they establish a theocracy and the theocratic elements come to dominate?
 

DominusNovus

Matt Quinn said:
What happens to Anatolia? Does it successfully sever itself from the Eastern Empire, or is it put down gorily? What happens to Christianity as a result of this? If it's gorily put down, does that mean that pacifism becomes a bigger part of Christianity or, if successful, do they establish a theocracy and the theocratic elements come to dominate?
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They are going to go independent, but remember, the Christians are just a large minority in Anatolia at the time, and they need the support of the other Anatolians. So, they won't have a theocracy, but I'm sure most of the leaders will be Christian.
 

MerryPrankster

Dominus,

Cool. What's Anatolia going to be? A republic, a monarchy (absolute or otherwise), or something else? And what will they call it? It certainly won't be Turkey.

By the way, is there a map coming? I recall you said something about it earlier, and I'm a bit confused about Dacia and Thracia. Thracia is OTL Thrace near Greece, I assume, while Dacia's up in Romania, right? Did they get seized by minor "Generals of the Peace" who weren't able to grab big territories like Egypt? Or am I totally wrong and Dacia and Thracia are other things?
 

DominusNovus

Matt Quinn said:
Dominus,

Cool. What's Anatolia going to be? A republic, a monarchy (absolute or otherwise), or something else? And what will they call it? It certainly won't be Turkey.

By the way, is there a map coming? I recall you said something about it earlier, and I'm a bit confused about Dacia and Thracia. Thracia is OTL Thrace near Greece, I assume, while Dacia's up in Romania, right? Did they get seized by minor "Generals of the Peace" who weren't able to grab big territories like Egypt? Or am I totally wrong and Dacia and Thracia are other things?
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Anatolia will probably be a monarchy of some form. And they'll probably call it the Regnum Anatolia.

I'll get a map up soon, but, as a rule of thumb, any of the kingdoms in Europe were created by the Generals of Peace, with the Empires being the regions ruled by generals who failed in their bid to become Emperor of the West.
 
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