Roman representative democracy

[octoberman]

Roman Republic was a direct democracy. Legislation could only be voted by the general public. The votes could only be cast in Rome's pomerium. This caused a concentration of power in to those rich enough to travel to Rome to vote. This led to the fall of the Republic

What if Rome people in regions away to locally elect representatives who would represent them in Rome

 

[Analytical Engine]

Roman Republic was a direct democracy. Legislation could only be voted by the general public. The votes could only be cast in Rome's pomerium. This caused a concentration of power in to those rich enough to travel to Rome to vote. This led to the fall of the Republic

What if Rome people in regions away to locally elect representatives who would represent them in Rome

These representatives would be dis-proportionally rich or the cronies of the rich.

Honestly, I don't see all that much changing. The Roman voting system in the Centuriate Assembly was massively biased in favour of the rich anyway.

 

[Chapman]

These representatives would be dis-proportionally rich or the cronies of the rich.

Honestly, I don't see all that much changing. The Roman voting system in the Centuriate Assembly was massively biased in favour of the rich anyway.

Yeah, if the issue is the cost of traveling to Rome then electing representatives won’t do much unto itself. The candidates will either be the same rich people as before (albeit fewer of them perhaps) or the people who suck up to them enough to have a campaign and their travel expenses paid for.

 

[Sceonn]

So like local Tribunes who would then travel to Rome to form a senate? Perhaps more manageable will be regional Senates formed from those Tribunes at a regional capital who would then elect Tribunes to represent their province in Rome? Travel expenses taken from the provincial coffer.

 

[Analytical Engine]

So like local Tribunes who would then travel to Rome to form a senate? Perhaps more manageable will be regional Senates formed from those Tribunes at a regional capital who would then elect Tribunes to represent their province in Rome? Travel expenses taken from the provincial coffer.

Each province choosing a certain number of members, probably depending on population and/or tax receipts?

 

[Sceonn]

Each province choosing a certain number of members, probably depending on population and/or tax receipts?

Which might then incentivize each Province towards growth, likely through competitive laws targeting internal migration and economic activities.

 

[Lalli]

I don't see this changing system any better. Like stated it would be still rich people who can firstly campaign and then travel to Rome. There wouldn't be much of connections between representatives and their provinces/districts due distances. So corruption and incapacity would remain still as problem.

Furthermore how much there was even Roman citizens outside of Italy since citizenship wasn't automatic thing?

 

[Analytical Engine]

Furthermore how much there was even Roman citizens outside of Italy since citizenship wasn't automatic thing?

It changed over time. Besides, individual cities could have their own system of citizenship as well, depending on the time period.

Collections: The Queen’s Latin or Who Were the Romans, Part II: Citizens and Allies

This is the second part (I, II, III, IV, V) of a series asking the question ‘Who were the Romans?’ How did they understand themselves as a people and the idea of ‘Roman’ as …

acoup.blog

 

[Name123]

So like local Tribunes who would then travel to Rome to form a senate? Perhaps more manageable will be regional Senates formed from those Tribunes at a regional capital who would then elect Tribunes to represent their province in Rome? Travel expenses taken from the provincial coffer.

I would not use the word senate here. The senate as Romans understood it was fundamentally unrepresentative and unelected body composed of former officials whose job was to direct executive magistrates.

 

[Alamannicus]

A very unpleasant elephant in the room are the Socii and the risk of the Social Wars still happening in this ATL. Roman Conservatives won't like giving more access to governance to the Latin lower classes, but they are more than likely going to be berserk at the notion of granting direct democracy to Italic peoples not seen as fully Roman.

 

[Codae]

A very unpleasant elephant in the room are the Socii and the risk of the Social Wars still happening in this ATL. Roman Conservatives won't like giving more access to governance to the Latin lower classes, but they are more than likely going to be berserk at the notion of granting direct democracy to Italic peoples not seen as fully Roman.

This makes me wonder if such a system would be a reasonable outcome of Roman defeat in (some analog to) the Social War. Perhaps a triumphant league of allied city-states would stop short of dissolving their ties to Rome but redefine "Rome"; that is, make responsibility for administering its treaty obligations vested no longer in the senate and people of Rome, but in a board appointed by the various communities beyond the city.

 

[Band in China]

Roman Republic was a direct democracy. Legislation could only be voted by the general public. The votes could only be cast in Rome's pomerium. This caused a concentration of power in to those rich enough to travel to Rome to vote. This led to the fall of the Republic

What if Rome people in regions away to locally elect representatives who would represent them in Rome

So the issue with a lot of these is both political and economic, one there isn't exactly a belief in basic equality as we understand it and the need for universal suffrage as we understand it, two there was a lot of wealth accumulation-the Roman empire and Republic ran on patronage while the culture emphasized loyalty to your patron.

 

[piratedude]

This makes me wonder if such a system would be a reasonable outcome of Roman defeat in (some analog to) the Social War. Perhaps a triumphant league of allied city-states would stop short of dissolving their ties to Rome but redefine "Rome"; that is, make responsibility for administering its treaty obligations vested no longer in the senate and people of Rome, but in a board appointed by the various communities beyond the city.

I have mused on a Socii victory meaning adding a third consul that has to be not from Rome, and an increased power/importance of the tribal assembly (as well as reforming it to be purely geographic instead of partly hereditary).

Itd be slightly more representative geographically though would still favor the the local elites.

 

[Analytical Engine]

I have mused on a Socii victory meaning adding a third consul that has to be not from Rome, and an increased power/importance of the tribal assembly (as well as reforming it to be purely geographic instead of partly hereditary).

Itd be slightly more representative geographically though would still favor the the local elites.

Rome would probably demand having the biggest representation as a compromise, even if, technically, it can be outvoted by a sufficiently large bloc of the other cities

 

[piratedude]

I mean, that was the case otl too, no? The city of Rome had 4 tribal voting blocks vs every one else having one

Rome would probably demand having the biggest representation as a compromise, even if, technically, it can be outvoted by a sufficiently large bloc of the other cities

 

[Analytical Engine]

I mean, that was the case otl too, no? The city of Rome had 4 tribal voting blocks vs every one else having one

That only applied to the Tribal Assembly. The Centuriate Assembly approved the laws proposed by Senate

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

This is not ASB, but the English Parliament summoned in 1265 seems to be the first representative assembly. That is a long way away from the Roman Republic.

I could see an Emperor maybe interested in consulting with representatives of the provinces and cities, in an attempt to raise more taxes from them (the real reason representative assemblies were created). But the oligarchs in the republican period? Not a chance.

 

[octoberman]

The Roman voting system in the Centuriate Assembly was massively biased in favour of the rich anyway.

Yet the Plebeian Council wasn't and it's power was equal to the Centuriate Assembly after Lex Hortensia was passed

 

[octoberman]

The candidates will either be the same rich people as before (albeit fewer of them perhaps) or the people who suck up to them enough to have a campaign and their travel expenses paid for.

Travel expenses can be paid for by taxes

 

[octoberman]

There wouldn't be much of connections between representatives and their provinces/districts due distances.

Wasn't the case with the parliament