Rheinuebung modified...

[sikitu]

The POD is that, as opposed to OTL, a German submarine is close to HMS Ark Royal during the hunt for the Bismarck, and it does have torps left. These do not sink the carrier, but damage it suffiently to cancel the air raids that in OTL damaged Bismarck, leading to her eventual defeat.

Bismarck makes it back to a French port, but needs some repairs, which are estimated to take some 4 to 6 weeks. Of course, Britain tries to bomb it, but success is doubtful.

What will happen next?

- Will the British come up with a different approach? Which? Or will they continue with bomber attacks only?
- Assume that Bismarck can be repaired. What will the KM do with it? Do not forget that Barbarossa is likely to happen as in OTL.
- Do you see any impact on the Med theater of war?
- Tirpitz is still in training...would the KM try to use it, especially after having learnt that the RN used Prince of Wales which was barely operational?

 

[JLCook]

Put BISMARCK in Brest and see Britain bend every effort

There would be a massive effort on the part of Great Britain to destroy BISMARCK in port. They migt possibly concentrate as many as 5-6 battleships, at night for purposes of bombardment, if they could get them close enough, within range, Vengeance for Hood would compel them to try!

 

[Tom_B]

The ETO of WWII was NOT a surface naval war

Repeat not a surface naval war.

Sorry guys.

The deestruction of Nazii Germany is probably not delayed by as much as 48 hours. There are two possibiliities for it would making a big difference but they require overcoming the notion of the ETO as a surface naval war.

- Will the British come up with a different approach? Which? Or will they continue with bomber attacks only? Churchill will likely insist on something "creative" to supplement the bombing campaign but for at least 60 days it will be bomb bomb bomb. Some people think Sperrle has enough strength to erect some of impenetrable air umbrella but I disagree. Some raids may get turned back. Some others will suffer heavy losses. But enough will get through to cause cumulative damage. Now this diversion of RAF assets from other targets might be helpful though my understanding is what they did to other targets was fairly modest in significance.

- Assume that Bismarck can be repaired. What will the KM do with it? Do not forget that Barbarossa is likely to happen as in OTL. Nothing that will have a material impact on the course of the war.

- Do you see any impact on the Med theater of war? A few more British subs will be deployed off France that would've been deployed in the Med. Rommel's flow of supllies might be a little bit better. Will this let him reach Egypt proper. If it does and it sets off first an Egyptian then a general Arab proAxis wave well that makes a big difference but even then I don't see Mazi Germany lasting long enough to get nuked.

- Tirpitz is still in training...would the KM try to use it, especially after having learnt that the RN used Prince of Wales which was barely operational Are they able to distinguish PoW from KGV? Even if it did it doesn't matter. Raeder already knows the RN has a different philosophy about shakedown.

Now possibility #2 for a significant difference is that Raeder's prestige is enhanced in Hitler's ideas and this allows him to oversome Goering's obstinancy and get dedicated air recon resources. This will make the U-Boat campaign more effective.

Repeat the ETO is not a surface naval war.

Tom

 

[Johnestauffer]

One of the concerns of the British is that the Bismarck would make it to a French port then join up with the battlecruisers Scharnhorst & Geisnau (bad spelling) that were already there. If all 3 sortied it would be a potent surface force.
I'm not so sure about disabling the Bismarck in port - the British tried to neutralize the S & G but never really succeeded, and eventually the S & G returned to Germany sailing up the English Channel.

 

[schrammy]

i have littel doudt that the british would eventualy detroy the bismarck
not doing so would just have to big of an impact upon the morale of there people.

but looses might verry well be verry high i for see lots and lots of british bombers and escorting fighters lost.

maybe they lose enough so that they are not able to keepup reinforcing malta and the german and italian airforce's succed into bomming it into oblivion secureing rommels supply line.

at the verry least they would have to step down or stop there bombing of germany for a month or 2

 

[sikitu]

Thank you for the interesting contributions. Tom, overall I agree with your judgement, but some butterflies might flap some wings...
Concerning Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, the big problem is that both ships are still being repaired in May 1941...so Germany has a Bismarck in port, but is stuck, as are all other BBs except Tirpitz, that still is in training. Hmmm.

 

[Archdevil]

The need for the British to keep Bismarck and the two twins bottled up might mean less forces available to interdict Tirpitz when it goes on its own cruise.

Or if Prinze Eugen joins up like in OTL, we might see another channel dash with Bismarck as an extra member.

In the end the Germans might do better, maybe even sinking one or two other RN capital ships besides Hood, but there is no real effect on the eventual end of the war. The Russians and Americans still meet on the Elbe in early 1945.