Rewrite the Star Wars Expanded Universe

[Thande]

I kind of like the idea that Jacen has seen every other derivation of the Force from touring the galaxy and falls into the Dark Side out of curiosity of the last frontier. And I also like the idea that once he's trapped in it, he starts regressing to cartoonish evil until he ends up as a pale shadow of the man he was - that's quite a Tolkienian idea, villain motive decay not due to lazy writing but due to the deliberate fact that evil makes you grow ever more simplistic and forget what you were ever doing it for. But it was so poorly executed in the books.

 

[lord caedus]

Ah, Legacy of the Force. Must you make me rant about you at every opportunity on multiple sites?


I have to vehemently agree that LOTF was a giant waste of paper and potentially good characters. Now, a large part of that is my being a Jacen fan, and I can't stand how badly he was written. Don't get me wrong, the him falling to the Dark Side thing isn't necessarily a bad idea, it was just very poorly written and handled. It does make sense, a little, when you take into account Vergere's idea that the Force was one and that it was personal moral flaws that caused people to fall, rather than an addiction to the Dark Side. Indeed, before his contact with Vergere, Jacen's more paralyzed by fear of the Dark Side and terrible consequences tha either of his siblings. It's not until Vergere teaches him the "Choose and Act" and "Be the Gardener" ideas that he starts to think there's a way around the orthodox idea. So, the basic idea makes sense, and combined with a fear of losing his secret family(ironic echoes of Anakin not entirely bad in this case) should have turned him into a more Lawful Evil type of person to try and head off the conflict.

They should have made him harsh, but with the paramount goal of order, not senseless villainy like burning Kashyyk. We should have seen those good intentions gradually slip away with the Dark Side, proving his view of the Force wrong(I don't actually like that idea, but the majority seems to). Above all, make him competent and an actual threat when the Jedi turn against him, or, hell, bring some Jedi to follow him as well considering his influence after the Vong War. No getting pantsed by illusion Luke starfighter or the Mandos. Finally, don't have everyone immediately turn their backs on him as "too far gone" like they did early in the actual series, he's far better than Vader at the time and he's apparently beyond redemption? Really? Basically, it should have been a reminder of the evils of the Dark Side can turn even the best after so long fighting an enemy outside of the Force, a terrible reminder of the Jedi's own vulnerability. I'll leave more detailed plotlines to other people.

That was another annoying part: the fact that everyone basically gave up on Jacen/Caedus as irredeemable after they'd realized he'd fallen. It's not like 3 of the Jedi Council members (Kyp, Luke and Mara) had previously been Dark Jedi/Sith acolytes who were redeemed, and it's especially not like the Grand Master's own father was a former Sith Lord who he redeemed even after said father had been committing war crimes and repressing the galaxy for 20-odd years without showing even the slightest sign of regret or remorse for his actions until near the very end.

I mean, for God's sake, Jacen/Caedus snaps his subordinate's neck in a fit of grief-stricken rage after his daughter (the only person he felt still loved him) was taken away from him and he's suddenly viewed as insane by the GA military & Niathal (who, despite being the only "sane" CoS, still is only able to get 1/3 of the fleet at Fondor to her side, the rest preferring the "insane" Sith Lord to the "sane" Mon Cal admiral), and when he later puts a blood trail on Jaina after she attacked him at Roche, she comes to the conclusion that he must be irredeemable.
Meanwhile, Darth friggin' Vader, the guy who snapped any subordinate's neck who failed him, displeased him or even sassed back to him, who cut off his own son's arm and tortured his friends (and, unknowingly, his own daughter) and was responsible or party to over two decades of war crimes, establishing a galaxy-wide totalitarian dictatorship and other horrific crimes, was redeemable because Luke knew there was good in him.

I'm not going to even go into how stupid the events of Invincible and the whole way Jaina-vs.-Jacen arc was played out, and planned.

 

[crackersncheese]

Statistics!

Marginally on-topic: Can anybody give me a somewhat reasonable asspulled number for the standard deviation of a Star Wars human's lifespan? I'm thinking of a mean of 125 years, but I need the freaking sigma. If you perchance know the modern standard deviation, I'll take that too.

It's important.

 

[BlackWave]

Marginally on-topic: Can anybody give me a somewhat reasonable asspulled number for the standard deviation of a Star Wars human's lifespan? I'm thinking of a mean of 125 years, but I need the freaking sigma. If you perchance know the modern standard deviation, I'll take that too.

It's important.

I think 125 years sounds about right, but I don't think it's ever been clearly stated. If in doubt, just make it up.

 

[teg]

I'd probably rewrite the whole sorry Star Wars universe, movies and all...

 

[Spengler]

Ah, Legacy of the Force. Must you make me rant about you at every opportunity on multiple sites?


I have to vehemently agree that LOTF was a giant waste of paper and potentially good characters. Now, a large part of that is my being a Jacen fan, and I can't stand how badly he was written. Don't get me wrong, the him falling to the Dark Side thing isn't necessarily a bad idea, it was just very poorly written and handled. It does make sense, a little, when you take into account Vergere's idea that the Force was one and that it was personal moral flaws that caused people to fall, rather than an addiction to the Dark Side. Indeed, before his contact with Vergere, Jacen's more paralyzed by fear of the Dark Side and terrible consequences tha either of his siblings. It's not until Vergere teaches him the "Choose and Act" and "Be the Gardener" ideas that he starts to think there's a way around the orthodox idea. So, the basic idea makes sense, and combined with a fear of losing his secret family(ironic echoes of Anakin not entirely bad in this case) should have turned him into a more Lawful Evil type of person to try and head off the conflict.

They should have made him harsh, but with the paramount goal of order, not senseless villainy like burning Kashyyk. We should have seen those good intentions gradually slip away with the Dark Side, proving his view of the Force wrong(I don't actually like that idea, but the majority seems to). Above all, make him competent and an actual threat when the Jedi turn against him, or, hell, bring some Jedi to follow him as well considering his influence after the Vong War. No getting pantsed by illusion Luke starfighter or the Mandos. Finally, don't have everyone immediately turn their backs on him as "too far gone" like they did early in the actual series, he's far better than Vader at the time and he's apparently beyond redemption? Really? Basically, it should have been a reminder of the evils of the Dark Side can turn even the best after so long fighting an enemy outside of the Force, a terrible reminder of the Jedi's own vulnerability. I'll leave more detailed plotlines to other people.


Exactly. He should have been shown as sympathetic and slowly losing control, not immediately cackling and killing everyone who dares oppose him.

All of this basically covers my thoughts on LOF. And I was just reading excerpts and plot summary's.

 

[Readman]

I liked the Thrawn Trilogy, there was a few books I think by Bantam I liked. most of the newer stuff ain't so great though, I've been going through the Fate of the Jedi, pretty meh, lots of Mandos and stuff I guess but nothing gripping or really that exciting.

 

[Thande]

Marginally on-topic: Can anybody give me a somewhat reasonable asspulled number for the standard deviation of a Star Wars human's lifespan? I'm thinking of a mean of 125 years, but I need the freaking sigma. If you perchance know the modern standard deviation, I'll take that too.

It's important.

The only book I know of that gives firm numbers is The Truce at Bakura, which says that 160 or so is the rough equivalent of a hale 65-80 for us. A plot point is that a woman 'only' in her 120s seems to have premature old-age dementia - it turns out that it's actually the result of brain damage from being tortured by the Empire.

 

[Rogue Shadows]

The only book I know of that gives firm numbers is The Truce at Bakura, which says that 160 or so is the rough equivalent of a hale 65-80 for us. A plot point is that a woman 'only' in her 120s seems to have premature old-age dementia - it turns out that it's actually the result of brain damage from being tortured by the Empire.

On the other hand, in Milennium Falcon, a doctor points out that even with replacement organs and the best medicine money can buy, they still can't get humans to live much longer than 150, and that's only the insanely wealthy that can afford it.

 

[BlackWave]

On the other hand, in Milennium Falcon, a doctor points out that even with replacement organs and the best medicine money can buy, they still can't get humans to live much longer than 150, and that's only the insanely wealthy that can afford it.

Might depend on the planet then.

 

[counterblitzkrieg]

I don't know if someone had bring this up already (too lazy to read the whole thread) but I'd rather have the Star Wars books be more like Star Trek. Non-canon period. This is so we don't have so much big conflicts happened over and over again in the span of decades because the writers want to write the same story, with the same characters, and still worry about continuity issues.

 

[crackersncheese]

Here's some licensed material that ought to stick around.

This too.

But this is a big no-no.

 

[anon_user]

I'd like it if the old Decipher Star Wars CCG stuck around. Sure, the rules were crazy-complex, but I liked it quite a bit.

 

[Jcoggins]

I don't know if someone had bring this up already (too lazy to read the whole thread) but I'd rather have the Star Wars books be more like Star Trek. Non-canon period. This is so we don't have so much big conflicts happened over and over again in the span of decades because the writers want to write the same story, with the same characters, and still worry about continuity issues.

no just no. in the immortal words of linkara "we like continuity"

 

[TheSevenLeggedFallyDowner]

I like having a continuity. That way when you pick up a book you have some idea what's going on. Instead of picking up a book and wondering if this guy completetly re-wrote the last 20 years in his head without telling you.

 

[Faeelin]

Step one. Remember this is a world with thousands or millions of worlds. Not everything happens on Coruscant, and you can do a plot to free world X from Moff Y in a unique way even if it's set after Endor. But overarching glaactic threats? Those are rare.