regan dies from assasination, john lennon lives.

[AMBOMB]

Michael Jackson is NOT actually a Space Alien!

Could've fooled me!

The USSR went broke, in large part, trying to keep up with the U.S. military build-up in the 1980's. Reagan was possibly the only politicial who could have pulled off the peaceful resolution of the Cold War, thanks, in no small part, to his personal relationship with Gorbachev.

The decline of the Soviet economy had to do not so much with the arms race as with the flawed nature of communism. Besides,the big Soviet strategic nuclear buildup actually started in 1975. Had the arms race continued, the Soviets might eventually have been unable to afford to continue it and felt compelled to call for a treaty ending it. In which case we would've been in a position to ask for large concessions from them (eg the disbanding of the Warsaw Pact). But it didn't have time to have that effect.

 

[radical_neutural]

Hey! Hey! Don't bash Reagan. In my opinion, he was a great president.

you are a neo-nazi if you believe that.

 

[radical_neutural]

Please do. Add a few (make that a LOT) of FACTS.

Wow.

Sure it wasn't the Israeli's? That seems to be the other loony tune version of blaming the victims for Terrorism.

Maybe it was Israel, the U.S. Jewish conspiracy (led by the Famous Jewish POTUS G. W. Bush), and the media. (It actually didn't happen! Wag the Dog!!!)

osama bin laden works for the republician party, both have the same goals, and are linked economicly.

 

[Floid]

R_N, don't you realise quite a lot of people here already see you as a joke? Don't play into that, no need to make statements like the above.

 

[radical_neutural]

R_N, don't you realise quite a lot of people here already see you as a joke? Don't play into that, no need to make statements like the above.

no need to mock what i belive in. this is the truth. with out 9/11, no iraqi oil of afgan pipeline.

 

[CalBear]

Could've fooled me!



The decline of the Soviet economy had to do not so much with the arms race as with the flawed nature of communism. Besides,the big Soviet strategic nuclear buildup actually started in 1975. Had the arms race continued, the Soviets might eventually have been unable to afford to continue it and felt compelled to call for a treaty ending it. In which case we would've been in a position to ask for large concessions from them (eg the disbanding of the Warsaw Pact). But it didn't have time to have that effect.

The build-up did start well before 1980. However, it was the unveiling of Stealth & Brilliant weapons in the early-mid 80's that exposed the USSR's massive spending on Air Defense as a total waste (of course the German kid who landed his puddle jumper in Red Square helped!).

To attempt to rebuild a defense structure that could prevent the destruction of the Soviet leadership (which was all the Politburo cared about) was beyond the Sov's ability. Things could have gone very bad at that point, but Ronnie & Gorbie managed to find common ground and let the air out of the balloon slowly. Thank God!

 

[Phenabob]

In this timeline, George Sr. (a former head of the CIA) would be president at the same time Yuri Andropov (a former head of the KGB) leads the Soviet Union. That would be an interesting Summit.

 

[oberdada]

And of course the German green party would not have the song "Wir wollen Sonne , statt Reagan, ohne Rüstung leben..."
in the 1984 European Elections.
What a major impact!

 

[AMBOMB]

The build-up did start well before 1980. However, it was the unveiling of Stealth & Brilliant weapons in the early-mid 80's that exposed the USSR's massive spending on Air Defense as a total waste (of course the German kid who landed his puddle jumper in Red Square helped!).

To attempt to rebuild a defense structure that could prevent the destruction of the Soviet leadership (which was all the Politburo cared about) was beyond the Sov's ability. Things could have gone very bad at that point, but Ronnie & Gorbie managed to find common ground and let the air out of the balloon slowly. Thank God!

The existence of stealth aircraft wasn't revealed until 1988. The cold war was over by then.

 

[Wendell]

no need to mock what i belive in. this is the truth. with out 9/11, no iraqi oil of afgan pipeline.

Your statement may be slightly more coherent than Michael Moore's drivel, but that does not mean it makes sense.

 

[Floid]

The existence of stealth aircraft wasn't revealed until 1988. The cold war was over by then.

The existence wasn't made public until then, but you can be sure that Soviet intelligence knew about it.

 

[CalBear]

Your statement may be slightly more coherent than Michael Moore's drivel, but that does not mean it makes sense.

At least Moore can spell!

He can also lie better than any non politician I have ever heard about!

 

[Wendell]

At least Moore can spell!

He can also lie better than any non politician I have ever heard about!

Point taken

 

[Glen]

i think this would be a better world,

I disagree.

but i'm not sure what the result would be. who was regan's VP?

That would be George Bush, Sr.

still a world with john lennon still alive would be a better place, maybe he could help with live aid? still a world without regan.

I'm not quite certain how John Lennon living would make the 'world' a better place. For him it would obviously be better....

 

[Glen]

regan dies= weakened republician party=no 9/11

What?

Okay, there might not be a 9/11 simply due to butterflies, but how do you figure that a weakened Republican Party leads to no 9/11?

Are you saying that with a weakened Republican Party, we get no Kuwait War, no US troops in the Arabian Peninsula, and thus Bin Laden's Al Queda focuses elsewhere for a while?

I think the US and Al Queda would have butted heads sooner or later. You might see such an attack delayed, but not aborted just from a weakened Republican Party...

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Some Quick Thoughts...

Consider the following ideas:

-First, consider the idea that there would have been no "Star Wars" SDI System approved in 1983. One thing George H.W. Bush would point out is the "financial boondogle", the entire measure would be. This would have certainly saved at least $100 billion in the U.S. budget based on spending for the now defunct program...

-Second, one idea that would have happened would have been John Lennon's participation in Live Aid! in 1985. One can already imagine him kicking off the concert with Paul McCartney with the song "Dancing in the Streets!" (in OTL, this musical duet was done by David Bowie and Mick Jagger, two major musical rivals). This single would certainly be in the top ten singles according to Billboard magazine and MTV....

-Another major change, consider the idea of John Lennon being knighted by Queen Elizabeth II by 1992. Consider that Paul McCartney, George Harrison, and Ringo Starr all received knighthoods. This alone wouls be seen as a greater legitimacy for various liberal causes worldwide...

 

[Glen]

A couple of my own random thoughts.

Imagine the effect of a Presidential assassination just three months into a new presidency on the psyche of the USA for the next several years.

I think George Bush would have done well as president at that time overall, though he would ironically again face a recession in his first year in office.

Would George Bush have pulled out of Lebanon after the Bombing of the Marine Barracks? If we look at his record during his one term in office, he had a tendency to use military muscle...I also wonder if he would have been more agressive with Ghaddafi (yet ironically, more diplomatic with our allies in doing so).

He may or may not have lost reelection in 1984. Remember, he was up against Mondale, and there is no strong third party bid. It wouldn't have been a Reagan landslide, but he could have won reelection.

Quite likely that the USSR lingers for a longer time, but with similar results in the end.

As for John Lennon...he'd have a longer, and I am certain, interesting bio for these added years. But I don't think it would change the world (though that speculation about him entering Labour party politics was an interesting one).

 

[AMBOMB]

A couple of my own random thoughts.

Imagine the effect of a Presidential assassination just three months into a new presidency on the psyche of the USA for the next several years.

I think George Bush would have done well as president at that time overall, though he would ironically again face a recession in his first year in office.

Would George Bush have pulled out of Lebanon after the Bombing of the Marine Barracks? If we look at his record during his one term in office, he had a tendency to use military muscle...I also wonder if he would have been more agressive with Ghaddafi (yet ironically, more diplomatic with our allies in doing so).

He may or may not have lost reelection in 1984. Remember, he was up against Mondale, and there is no strong third party bid. It wouldn't have been a Reagan landslide, but he could have won reelection.

Quite likely that the USSR lingers for a longer time, but with similar results in the end.

As for John Lennon...he'd have a longer, and I am certain, interesting bio for these added years. But I don't think it would change the world (though that speculation about him entering Labour party politics was an interesting one).

George Bush would've been elected in 1984 because of the 6% rule. USSR breaks up at the same time it did on OTL.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Not Necessarily...

George Bush would've been elected in 1984 because of the 6% rule. USSR breaks up at the same time it did on OTL.

-Consider that only Reagan could have finessed the issue of the "Iran-Contra Affair" c.1984. With George H.W. Bush, there is already the added suspicion created by the fact that he was former head of the CIA...

-Another problem to consider was the fact President George H.W. Bush would be faced with a nuclear crisis on September 26, 1983. Lt. Col. Stanislav Petrov, the officer in charge of Serpukhov-15, the secret bunker from which the Soviet Union monitored its early-warning satellites, indicated that the new system reported the launch of several missiles from the U.S. continental missile fields. Petrov had been told repeatedly that the United States would launch a massive nuclear strike designed to overwhelm Soviet forces in a single strike.

 

[Glen]

-Consider that only Reagan could have finessed the issue of the "Iran-Contra Affair" c.1984. With George H.W. Bush, there is already the added suspicion created by the fact that he was former head of the CIA...

However, with a new President, things might change a bit over time, and we might not see an Iran-Contra Affair...at least not until after the 84 election...

-Another problem to consider was the fact President George H.W. Bush would be faced with a nuclear crisis on September 26, 1983. Lt. Col. Stanislav Petrov, the officer in charge of Serpukhov-15, the secret bunker from which the Soviet Union monitored its early-warning satellites, indicated that the new system reported the launch of several missiles from the U.S. continental missile fields. Petrov had been told repeatedly that the United States would launch a massive nuclear strike designed to overwhelm Soviet forces in a single strike.

Well, this sounds interesting...and I've never heard of it. What are you suggesting would be different with Bush instead of Reagan in this event?