REDUX: Place In The Sun: What If Italy Joined The Central Powers?

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Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

Banned
I will confess- the intricacies of Naval battles are not my area of expertise. I hope what I have written here is plausible. A chaotic mess? Certainly- this is by design and (I hope) fits into the tradition of almost accidental battleship clashes in which plans go to hell at the same speed with which a shell crosses the open ocean. Given the size of this update, I obviously wrote it in multiple sittings and didn't plan out every detail beforehand. What I like to think of as "spontaneity" may well come across as "disorganized", for which I apologize, and I'm willing to retcon anything too implausible or simply unclear. Feedback is always welcome, but especially here as it makes me a better writer and improves my grasp of the subject matter.

Thanks as always for reading, and a happy belated Thanksgiving to you all.

-Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth
 
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PGSBHurricane

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
I will confess- the intricacies of Naval battles are not my area of expertise. I hope what I have written here is plausible. A chaotic mess? Certainly- this is by design and (I hope) fits into the tradition of almost accidental battleship clashes in which plans go to hell at the same speed with which a shell crosses the open ocean. Given the size of this update, I obviously wrote it in multiple sittings and didn't plan out every detail beforehand. What I like to think of as "spontaneity" may well come across as "disorganized", for which I apologize, and I'm willing to retcon anything too implausible or simply unclear. Feedback is always welcome, but especially here as it makes me a better writer and improves my grasp of the subject matter.

Thanks as always for reading, and a happy belated Thanksgiving to you all.

-Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth
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Given that I'm even less of an expert on military history, let alone the intricacies of Naval battles, I would definitely say this is plausible to me. World War I was certainly a chaotic mess so it probably wouldn't be too far off. Also, happy belated Thanksgiving to you as well.
 
Reisen Storm

Reisen Storm

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
Bretagne, meant to be the pride and joy of the French Navy, in whom so many hopes had been placed during the long months of war, a symbol of French naval superiority over the hated Germans and perfidious Italians, was gone on day two of her first mission.
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Got to say, I sort of expected a midway-esque loss here for france. Other than that, all I have to say that it's literally over for the french. Now we must know how the british and german deal with this.
 

lukedalton

Reisen Storm said:
Got to say, I sort of expected a midway-esque loss here for france. Other than that, all I have to say that it's literally over for the french. Now we must know how the british and german deal with this.
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IMVHO, the German and the A-H will look at italian victory and will go for a try hoping to do the same and not desiring the latecomer getting all the glory, this will weight much more for the Austrian Navy due to the ehm messed up relations between the two nations; frankly the Austrian admirals will begin to receive pressure to launch an attack to not make the italians get all the honors.

The British in Malta will worried a lot as they are the next target even if is much more probable that the italians will 'merely' increase the number of bombers sortie against the island plus the occasional sub attack
 

Wedgekree

Oooh! The Regina Marina having a victory over the French! I mean, sure the French Navy has another five or six Dreadnaughts and the Royal Navy has a couple hundred or so up in the North Sea, so in theory it's not a huge change strategically! Not that the Regina Marina will have any more real heavy capital ships to throw into things or can you call what the Austro-Hungarians and Ottomans have real navies..

But, a victory like this will be a huge boost to Italian morale, hit the French hard, and also perhpas make the Germans want in on the glory and get a bit more aggressive iwth the Kaiserlichemarine. Or heaven forbid change thier cipher books.

But, if the Royal Navy has to send sufficient ships down to the Med to cover it, that's fewer than can be kept up in the North Sea. Presuming the RN thinks they need at least a 2:1 advantage in numbers (at minimum) to keep the Germans bottled/maintain the blockade, there's only so much they'll want to send on down. So diverting more than ahandful of ships will be tricky (much less whether somewhere like Malta or Alexandria is close enough to the Italian coast to serve as a base for naval operations in the Med for the technology of this time). So can the Royal Navy afford to send down a half dozen battleships and escorts to match what the Central Powers have in the region?

Without worrying about the Germans? Timing-wise not sure if Jutland has happened yet.
 

KingSweden24

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
I will confess- the intricacies of Naval battles are not my area of expertise. I hope what I have written here is plausible. A chaotic mess? Certainly- this is by design and (I hope) fits into the tradition of almost accidental battleship clashes in which plans go to hell at the same speed with which a shell crosses the open ocean. Given the size of this update, I obviously wrote it in multiple sittings and didn't plan out every detail beforehand. What I like to think of as "spontaneity" may well come across as "disorganized", for which I apologize, and I'm willing to retcon anything too implausible or simply unclear. Feedback is always welcome, but especially here as it makes me a better writer and improves my grasp of the subject matter.

Thanks as always for reading, and a happy belated Thanksgiving to you all.

-Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth
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I thought it was quite well done, especially the fate of the Bretagne which felt very true to reality. I didn’t quite understand one sequence of events though - did the French hit Menton on the 13th, leave towards Marseille, and then turn around and try to come back on the 14th? I’m trying to picture the route that gets them with the sun in their eyes
 
Jaenera Targaryen

Jaenera Targaryen

Kaiser Wilhelm: If the Italians can pull off a win against lopsided odds, then my navy sure as hell can as well!
Admiral von Pohl: Mein Kaiser, there is a huge difference between the French and the British...

*five minutes later*

Kaiser Wilhelm: *stares coldly as Ensign von Pohl is carted out having fainted from demotion to the bottom rank* How soon can you sail?
Admiral Scheer: With the tide.
 
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AntoniousTheBro

AntoniousTheBro

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
but Paris was not only newer, she was the product of a more advanced Navy with more budget than Italy could have dreamt of- to say nothing of the fact that she had not taken a scratch while Guillo Cesare had fought her sister ships.
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i would like to say one thing. the paris is courbet class. to not make too fine a point they were not very good ships to be as simple as possible the main dreadnought threat was the bregtagne but even then still limited to ten guns compared to the italians 13 or twelve for the Dante Alighieri but that is sunk by this point. this compared to the fact most french vessels could only fire 10 a broadside at one time. in short numbers of the dreadnoughts the french vessels can fire 50 rounds in a volley the italians with 4 can fire 52. so i rough number they are firing even but will very depending on engagement to take their first engagement this disparity would be 40-64 if you include dante alighieri.

i do like this update i just thought i would give some thoughts on it, though one benefit the paris would have in 2 of the 12 that couldn't fire on broadside could fire on another opposing ship
(something i found which is the dante alighieri ironically enough was fastest of the 5 ships italy had in 1915 just some food for thought).
 
pls don't ban me

pls don't ban me

Monthly Donor
Finally, Italy bringing some glory to it's navy.
i can only imagine the moment of full pride inside the hearts of every Genoese, Venetian, Pisan, Amalfitan and every other maritime city when the news of vicotry will arrive
 

anyone

How cautious could it be expected for the Italians to be from now on? Considering the numbers they’re operating with, they simply can’t afford to keep fighting this way. However hopefully this will scare the French away from trying to shell mention again.
 

MonarchistCanuck

The only person at the top of my head that could comment on naval plausibility is Astrodragon (I know there's others but drawing a blank) but otherwise a good update. It hurt seeing the Marine Nationale mauled so but history has plenty of examples of leaders throwing away their advantages and sailing into defeat.

So in short this doesn't scream ASB to me and read more as France losing the battle rather than Italy winning the battle which seems plausible
 
Albidoom

Albidoom

Nice writing, as usual, I got only a minor nitpick:

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
One of the few advantages men in the trenches enjoyed- perhaps the only one- was immunity from drowning.
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Granted, the weather around the Mediterranean is by and large much drier than in Flanders, but drowning in or near the trenches, while usually not likely, did occasionally happen upon some unfortunate soldiers.
 

lukedalton

anyone said:
How cautious could it be expected for the Italians to be from now on? Considering the numbers they’re operating with, they simply can’t afford to keep fighting this way. However hopefully this will scare the French away from trying to shell mention again.
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Yep Regia Marina know that a battle of attrition is out of the question even against Marine Nationale, so she has only two real choice now:
- return to a defensive stance to protect the italian coast, know that now the French will be much more...prudent in launching another attack
- try to lure MN in a decisive battle but even if he deal with the French succesfully there is the Royal Navy and coordination with the Austrian...is difficult, so it's an option only for very desperate time.
So IMVHO Regia Marina to keep the momentum gained by this victory will step up the use of MAS and submarine to conduct raid against the French and the British as they are easier to replace
 
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