Raid on Panama canal

Gents,

Such a Japanese effort against the Canal only makes sense if the Japanese intend to invade Oahu and wish to delay the inevitable US Atlantic Fleet counter-attack on an invested Hawaii.

Surely a small Japanese carrier group, built around the old Hosho, might sail unmolested thru international waters outside of the banned US 12 mile limit ? In peacetime.

Considering the range of the Kate and Zero (I assume here, without checking, that Hosho could indeed operate both types ?) a surprise Dec.7 attack could be flown against the Gatun Dam without too much difficulty. History shows the US defenders of Oahu to have been quite complacent wrt any attack on their island bastion so I would think the US defenders of the Panama Canal to have been even more "relaxed".

A transport ship bomb, even if not discovered by US inspection teams (which included sniffer dogs after 1935), would at best, block only one side of the paired Canal locks. Transit times would be slowed for two or three months as the wreck was cleared and the damage repaired but ship traffic would continue thru the undamaged side of the lock even while repairs were underway.

Draining Gatun Lake however, by torpedoing several of the spillway gates of the Gatun Dam will drain away the multi-year stored rainwater needed for the operation of each and every lock. The Canal would be unusable for 2- 3 years after the repairs were completed, until the rains re-filled the reservoir.

A few thoughts.

The bit about an invasion of Oahu is probably moot for several reasons. Knocking out the Canal is a fairly major prize by itself, although the japanese do not have the resources to attempt an invasion of Hawaii.

It is also not as easy to imagine Hosho getting through undetected. Hosho was old and slow, but it was also a carrier. This combination meant that it's disappearance for a protracted time period would eventually be noted, while it was to slow to sprint across the Pacific. In addition, while the north pacific approaches to Hawaii were fairly empty (and Nagumo expected to have to fight his way in to some extent), while the approaches to the Panama canal are some of the most heavily trafficked waterways in the world. Not to mention their long course will cross some other shipping routes. In fact, do the japanese have the logistical capability to get Hosho (plus escorts?) to strike range of Panama? I tend to doubt it, especially if they have to use a roundabout course to evade detection, but I'm not an expert on that subject and can't seem to find my sources.

I agree that the gatun locks are the only viable target. Sinking a ship in the middle of the canal would be only a minor obstacle in the long run, and it seems unlikely that the canal locks could be destroyed. I suppose if you blew up enough explosives at the seaward side, you might manage something, but getting the explosives there would be hard. I suppose if the attack were delivered well, however, it could drain lake Gatun.

My personnal opinion is that an attack on the Panama canal is theoretically possible, but the odds of success, or of disabling the canal for any signifigant length of time are rather slim.
 

Markus

Banned
The use of a ship loaded with (mostly) fertilizer can work, until FDR closes the Canal to all japanese ships. After that finding a "neutral" vessel and getting timing right and equipment in place get´s challanging.


History shows the US defenders of Oahu to have been quite complacent wrt any attack on their island bastion so I would think the US defenders of the Panama Canal to have been even more "relaxed".

PH was deep at sleep, but I heard the forces in Panama were actually more alert. Maybe because of the "nazi airfields in the jungle"-paranoia?
 
Would this be possible on December 7th, 1941? Perhaps the Japanese decide to launch troop transports at it and then they jump the garrisons, but they can't hold the line and are forced to pull out after scorched Earthing the Canal?
Oh yeah!

So the Japanese:

1. Attack Pearl Harbor with their aircraft carriers.
2. Bring battleships within range and shell Pearl Harbor.
3. Sink a block ship at Pearl Harbor.
4. Use paratroopers to make suicide attacks on Pearl Harbor airfields.
5. Use special forces to attack Washington, D.C.
6. Inflict damage upon the Panama Canal.

Did I forget anything else?
 
Last edited:
So the Japanese:

1. Attack Pearl Harbor with their aircraft carriers.
2. Bring battleships within range and shell Pearl Harbor.
3. Sink a block ship at Pearl Harbor.
4. Use paratroopers to make suicide attacks on Pearl Harbor airfields.
5. Use special forces to attack Washington, D.C.
6. Inflict damage upon the Panama Canal.

Did I forget anything else?
A typica Robdab plan: So convoluted even the Japanese high command wouldn't consider it:rolleyes:
 
Oh yeah!

So the Japanese:

1. Attack Pearl Harbor with their aircraft carriers.
2. Bring battleships within range and shell Pearl Harbor.
3. Sink a block ship at Pearl Harbor.
4. Use paratroopers to make suicide attacks on Pearl Harbor airfields.
5. Use special forces to attack Washington, D.C.
6. Inflict damage upon the Panama Canal.

Did I forget anything else?

You forgot that they ate three Shredded Wheat for breakfast.
 

Markus

Banned
A typica Robdab plan: So convoluted even the Japanese high command wouldn't consider it:rolleyes:

Let´s hope no Hollywood studio ever(!) hear of this. Otherwise we get a war movie that even makes "PH" look like a role model for historical accuracy.
 
One more weird idea. RDX (aka Hexogen) in it's pure form is very similar in appearance to sugar (small colourless crystals) and could be handled in much the same way. So, one doesn't need a ship with kamikadze crew, one just needs to ship some load of sugar from Brazil to SF and have some kind of radio detonator(s) placed in cargo in advance...
 

robdab2

Banned
Atreus, you wrote,
It is also not as easy to imagine Hosho getting through undetected. Hosho was old and slow, but it was also a carrier. This combination meant that it's disappearance for a protracted time period would eventually be noted, while it was to slow to sprint across the Pacific. In addition, while the north pacific approaches to Hawaii were fairly empty (and Nagumo expected to have to fight his way in to some extent), while the approaches to the Panama canal are some of the most heavily trafficked waterways in the world. Not to mention their long course will cross some other shipping routes. In fact, do the japanese have the logistical capability to get Hosho (plus escorts?) to strike range of Panama?

For all of the reasons that you listed any such a Gatun Dam torpedo air strike would have to be a "hide in plain sight" effort on Dec.7'41.

I suggested the Hosho because if lost on this high risk mission, she would be the least missed IJN carrier.

Some excuse for a peacetime "show-the-flag-cruise" to South America would have to have been devised well ahead of time so that Hosho and a small escort/tanker group had some plausible reason to already be over on the eastern side of the Pacific on that Sundau morning. Perhaps a greater Japanese diplomatic effort to buy oil etc from former trading partners there might (combined with press releases detailing a long distance cadet training cruise) have relaxed the inevitable US watchers ? A sea voyage from South America, north, for a shore visit to Mexico would be the only peacetime excuse to transit international waters close to Panama needed by Hosho & company.

The long range of the Kates (hastily painted in US colors/markings) might have allowed a treetop height overland approach along the Panama coast in an effort to elude US observation and warning of the attack. I do not know at this time if the Japanese knew of the two US radar warning sets that had been installed in Panama in the fall of 1940 but ...

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/guard-us/ch13.htm summarizes the state of Dec.'41 US defences at Panama against a surprise air attack:
"He did, however, call to the attention of the War Department certain deficiencies in the defenses of the Canal. In General Andrews' opinion, the commandant of the naval district did not have enough planes or vessels under his control to conduct an adequate reconnaissance. The Aircraft Warning Service in the theater, he reported, was totally inadequate in personnel to supervise the installation of detectors on hand as well as to man the equipment when installed. Only two detectors were installed and in operation in the Panama Canal Department. The harbor defenses had less than one complete manning detail available. The antiaircraft artillery had insufficient personnel to man the armament being installed in the Canal Zone and only enough ammunition for one minute of fire per gun for the 37-mm. guns. There were no barrage balloons. The Air Force, General Andrews continued, was totally lacking in night pursuit planes and in very-high-frequency radio equipment with which to direct pursuit in air. Only eight modern long-range bombers and twelve modern light bombers were available, and there were no 37-mm. cannons for the P-39's. "
[349]

One minute of AA fire hardly inspires confidence that a surprise air attack could be prevented from reaching good positions of attack on the Gatun Dam. A two phase air attack (torpedoes & bombs) which, based on the 1923 US exercise, might also have included a few Kates carrying the 800kg type AP bombs used on the USN battleline at Pearl Harbor, for use on the spilway behind the dam gates.​


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Problem_IX#cite_note-Wright-1 certainly indicates that the Americans were aware of the Gatun Dam vulnerability, as early as 1923.​

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CanadianGoose, you wrote,

One more weird idea. RDX (aka Hexogen) in it's pure form is very similar in appearance to sugar (small colourless crystals) and could be handled in much the same way. So, one doesn't need a ship with kamikadze crew, one just needs to ship some load of sugar from Brazil to SF and have some kind of radio detonator(s) placed in cargo in advance...

My source,http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/guard-us/ch12.htm indicates that, "Plans for protecting the Canal against sabotage during an international crisis of this sort had been drawn up in Panama and given constant study ever since the spring of 1936. Now, steps to put them into effect were quickly taken. Three basic measures had been provided for: first, the installation and operation of special equipment in the lock chambers, designed to detect underwater mines and bombs and to prevent damage from this cause; second, the restriction of commercial traffic to one side of the dual locks; and third, the inspection of all ships before they entered the Canal and the placing of an armed guard on vessels while in transit through it.21 These measures were instituted between 26 August, when the President gave Secretary Harry H. Woodring the signal to go ahead, and 1 September."

So even if successful, your bombship would only block one side of one dual lock Canal. Priority USN warships could still transit the Canal with no delay.​

Gatun Dam was the key Canal vulnerability, not the individual locks. Taking out Gatun knocks out the entire Canal for 2-3 YEARS, depending on local Panama rainfall totals from 1942 thru 1944.​
 
Oh yeah!

So the Japanese:

1. Attack Pearl Harbor with their aircraft carriers.
2. Bring battleships within range and shell Pearl Harbor.
3. Sink a block ship at Pearl Harbor.
4. Use paratroopers to make suicide attacks on Pearl Harbor airfields.
5. Use special forces to attack Washington, D.C.
6. Inflict damage upon the Panama Canal.

Did I forget anything else?

You forgot that they ate three Shredded Wheat for breakfast.

And two hard-boiled eggs.

*WHONK*

Make that three hard-boiled eggs.
 
So even if successful, your bombship would only block one side of one dual lock Canal. Priority USN warships could still transit the Canal with no delay.
We're talking about 2-3 kilotons blast, remember? Are you sure this wouldn't take the lock out? In Halifax, similar explosion reduced to rubble everything within kilometer from the blast site and caused tsunami 18 (eighteen) meters high. Would locks just shrug this off?
 
The point of the Japanese attack was to achieve their goals and then negotiate a settlement with the US, not guarantee a blood feud to the death with a nation vastly superior in ability and coming with an assortment of weaker but still dangerous allies.

Propose these ideas and someone in the IJN might have the bad taste to ask how the US was to be beaten in the war, as opposed to win the opening strike. Since no response ever was formulated...
 
AFAIK there were emergency dams in the locks to prevent the Gatun Lake from draining in the case of an emergency.

If you succeed in getting a ship there and if you succeed at blowing it up and if you succeed at destroying the locks, chances are pretty big any possible waterway for the water to drain through will also be obstructed.

If the waterway isn't obstructed, then most likely the dams will also still function and do their job as designed.
Especially since these dams were replaced in the '30s with dams which were at the bottom of the locks and could be raised in an emergency.

I found this a nice pic of said locks.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Gatun_locks,_dam_and_spillway.jpg
 

robdab

Banned
FlyingDutchman,

I believe that you confuse the Gatun Locks with the Gatun Dam spillway gates which are the gates that I propose be attacked via torpedo air strike.

If you would check http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5294557 you would see the semi-circular Gatun Dam spillway structure to the upper left of the photo with the Gatun Locks being seen to the upper right of that photo.

The spillway has no such anti-drain features as were installed in the locks.
 

robdab

Banned
Canadiangoose, you wrote,

In Halifax, similar explosion reduced to rubble everything within kilometer from the blast site and caused tsunami 18 (eighteen) meters high. Would locks just shrug this off?

The type of sabotage attack that you propose is exactly the one which the US security types would be looking for when they searched each ship before it was first allowed into the locks.

What makes you think the US inspectors of the day so incompetent that they would miss noticing a full ship load of explosives that was what they were assigned to find ?? Can you provide any source, other than your own wishful thinking, in support of your idea ? I think it unlikely, not impossible but VERY unlikely.
 
FlyingDutchman,

I believe that you confuse the Gatun Locks with the Gatun Dam spillway gates which are the gates that I propose be attacked via torpedo air strike.

If you would check http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5294557 you would see the semi-circular Gatun Dam spillway structure to the upper left of the photo with the Gatun Locks being seen to the upper right of that photo.

The spillway has no such anti-drain features as were installed in the locks.

Seems a bit shortsighted not to have defences of any kind for those spillways. Weren't there even torpedo-nets and the likes?

Some excuse for a peacetime "show-the-flag-cruise" to South America would have to have been devised well ahead of time so that Hosho and a small escort/tanker group had some plausible reason to already be over on the eastern side of the Pacific on that Sundau morning. Perhaps a greater Japanese diplomatic effort to buy oil etc from former trading partners there might (combined with press releases detailing a long distance cadet training cruise) have relaxed the inevitable US watchers ? A sea voyage from South America, north, for a shore visit to Mexico would be the only peacetime excuse to transit international waters close to Panama needed by Hosho & company.
I doubt the Americans would be enthusiastic about this as this would collide with their Monroe doctrine.

When the Germans attempted to gain influence in South-America in the thirties with favorable offers to build up local (civilian) airforces, the Americans went to great expenses to counter these influences.

Ernest K. Gann described this in his book 'Fate is the hunter'; the Americans were if anything extremely paranoid about other powers meddling in the America's, such as Germany but this would also include Japan, because of said Panama canal.
So any Japanese attempts at a portvisit will only raise American suspicion, instead of lowering it.

Any increase in Japanese interest in South or Central-America compared to OTL, will have consequences which you can't predict, butterfly etc.
Who knows how the US would have responded to such a Japanese drive?
 
What makes you think the US inspectors of the day so incompetent that they would miss noticing a full ship load of explosives that was what they were assigned to find ??
Said explosives look exactly like sugar (RDX could even be mixed with sugar without losing an ability to detonate). It would take chemical testing (or human tasting, RDX tastes like bitter sh...t) of every sack to get the difference. Yes, such an attack is crazy idea.

Can you provide any source, other than your own wishful thinking, in support of your idea ?
RDX posing like sugar? Yep, no problemo. No matter who did it (I'm very skeptical of "Putin's minions" version, pushed by very aggressive group of conspiracy theorist editors), they packed RDX in sacks marked "sugar" and nobody saw the difference. In fact, I got my idea from those events.
 

robdab

Banned
FlyingDutchman, you wrote,

Weren't there even torpedo-nets and the likes ? - Much like at Pearl Harbor, none that I have been able to find any proof of. AA guns with little ammo and fighters posted miles away etc., etc. A non-functional radar air warning system. Even though the British air strike on the Italian fleet at Taranto was known, it seems that the US felt that the Japanese didn't have the technology/training/aircraft needed to repeat it elsewhere. Plus, Panama is so far from Japan. Just like with 9/11 (using hijacked suicide airliners) our hindsight now is easy but in Dec.'41, before the Japanese had hit Pearl Harbor by air, any such air attack on Panama would have been an equally nasty and probably total, surprise. IMO.

So any Japanese attempts at a portvisit will only raise American suspicion, instead of lowering it. Yet historicay such happened. When the embargo was slapped on the Japanese tried to source raw materials elsewhere, notably from South America. The US itself allowed several repatriation liners to vist the US West Coast via Honolulu. IJN training flotillas had been going on round-the-world cruises for years to give each year's class of new navy recruits their first taste of life at sea.

I don't forsee any greast amount of "butterfly" type effects since I'm not talking about that great an increase in Japanese efforts over and above the OTL. So an IJN carrier goes along on the trip instead of the OTL heavy cruiser ? News of this level of substitution would not start a war immediately. Considering the low number of warplanes carried by Hosho I'd expect the over-confident Americans to believe that their newly Panama based P-36s could handle any possible threat. Remember that the US armed forces didn't know much at all about the newish Zero's capabilities in Dec.'41.

FDR knew that America wasn't yet ready for war and didn't want to antagonize the Japanese too too much. He had to do something to signal US displeasure but even his oil embargo was "accidental" in that he only intended to ban high octane avgas from sale to Japan. His bureaucrats though, led by one Dean Acheson (sp ?), made it a total ban on all oil products and forced a war before the US was anywhere near ready to fight.

Who knows how the US would have responded to such a Japanese drive ? - Historically we know that the US was largely asleep at the wheel and did not much of anything militarily in response to the OTL Japanese efforts. Diplomatic discussions with several Central and South American governments were more than enough to ensure that the Japanese didn't get the oil and minerals that they searched for but in my scenario the Japanese effort is just a cover for the presence of a small carrier in the Eastern Pacific, anyway. Neither the Japanese nor I expected any real successes in buying South American oil but they had to try, even if just as a cover for their preparations to seize the NEI oil production areas.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CanadianGoose, you wrote,

It would take chemical testing (or human tasting, RDX tastes like bitter sh...t) of every sack to get the difference. - More likely, one 5 minute pass thru the ship's cargo hold by a trained "sniffer" dog.

RDX posing like sugar? Yep, no problemo. No matter who did it (I'm very skeptical of "Putin's minions" version, pushed by very aggressive group of conspiracy theorist editors), they packed RDX in sacks marked "sugar" and nobody saw the difference. In fact, I got my idea from those events. - Sorry, my fault for not specifying a 1941 source that details Japanese use/production of RDX in large tonnage quantities back then. The record of a 1999 attack in Russia, some 58 years later, hardly proves the possibility of a 1941 Japanese sabotage attack with RDX in Panama.

By your logic the Panama Canal could have been blown up in Dec.'41 by a Russian atom bomb, based on 1947 Russian a-bomb test reports. Try again.

Japanese shipping was banned from the Panama Canal long before Dec.'41 so you'll have to use a neutral ship to carry your "surprise package" thru Panama. What happens if one of those civilian crewmen/officers notices some unusual wiring coming out of the piles of "sugar" sacks in the hold ? What happens should a rat chew through one of those fuse wires during the long voyage ? What if one of your detonator batteries goes "flat" ? Could a lightning strike on the freighter set off the RDX ? Perhaps a shift in the cargo pulls on the detonator wires and breaks the firing circuit ? What if one of the armed US Marine guards put on board every ship transitting the Canal should notice an odd wire or two or even object to a crewman entering a cargo hold during the transit ? There is no good reason for any crewman to so enter and a loaded rifle adds authority to any "stop where you are" demand.

The US Marines were authorized (and in the OTL known to) lock unco-operative captains and their crews in their cabins for the transit, should such seem advisable to the US Lt. in charge of the secruity team on board.

You have yet to prove that the Japanese had the quantites of RDX needed and IF they did, how would you convince the IJN battleship admirals to give up large tonnage quatities of their best explosive, just as a war for national survival is about to start ? When just a few conventional torpedoes (about 8, or 10 with spares included) can get the job done instead.

Too many failure possibilities, even without a sniffer dog or two, don't you think ?
 
More likely, one 5 minute pass thru the ship's cargo hold by a trained "sniffer" dog.
Honestly, I don't know. Would RDX smell different? Did Americans have habit of sending sniffer dog team to each and every freighter. What are chances of dog sniffing RDX hidden under 2-3 layers of sugar-filled sacks (nobody said that all cargo should be RDX, jusy 90% of it :D)?
Sorry, my fault for not specifying a 1941 source that details Japanese use/production of RDX in large tonnage quantities back then. The record of a 1999 attack in Russia, some 58 years later, hardly proves the possibility of a 1941 Japanese sabotage attack with RDX in Panama.
I said that idea was crazy. However, unlike nukes, RDX had been known and mass-produced since pre-WWII. I'm not sure about Japanese production, though.
Japanese shipping was banned from the Panama Canal long before Dec.'41 so you'll have to use a neutral ship to carry your "surprise package" thru Panama.
Yes, I said "Brazilian".
What happens if one of those civilian crewmen/officers notices some unusual wiring coming out of the piles of "sugar" sacks in the hold ? What happens should a rat chew through one of those fuse wires during the long voyage ? What if one of your detonator batteries goes "flat" ? Could a lightning strike on the freighter set off the RDX ? Perhaps a shift in the cargo pulls on the detonator wires and breaks the firing circuit ? What if one of the armed US Marine guards put on board every ship transitting the Canal should notice an odd wire or two or even object to a crewman entering a cargo hold during the transit ?
You are asking a lot of valid questions. However, I would not over-estimate chances of Americans detecting something wrong without being tipped in advance. Cargo ships are awfully big and messy things.
 

robdab

Banned
Canadiangoose, you wrote,

Yes, I said "Brazilian". - But it seems that Brazil didn't supply sugar to the US in 1941, at least in any quantity.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,766349,00.html?iid=digg_share tells me that sugar is needed for alcohol which was needed for USN firing powders.

I didn't know that.

Yet another good reason for the Japanese to take Hawaii away from the Americans in Dec.'41 since http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,802297,00.html shows where the US sugar supply came from at the time. Hawaii falling would also cut off the additional large portion of US sugar supply coming from the Phillipines. The US couldn't be the "arsenal of democracy" without enough sugar. Who knew ?
 
Top