Question: How would the Papacy react to a Heretical Christian Sect retaking Iberia from the Moors?

[Ellis MacVey]

Okay, so this is sort of a weird fucking question to ask, but I was playing Crusader Kings 3 as Waldensians in Iberia (I'm not good, I didn't even come close to taking anything over), and I sort of started wondering something

If this were real life and not a game with a set of programmed but somewhat randomized responses, how would the Papacy and the Catholic Church react if a Heretical sect of Christianity somehow managed to retake Iberia from the Moors? Something like Catharism or Waldensianism or Arnoldists (yes, I did get this list from Wikipedia, and I specifically avoided heretical movements far away from Iberia (such as Tondrakians) or localized in their goals (Lollards)). I know it'd be very different based on which heretical sect took over Iberia, but I'm asking what the general feeling would be likely to be

Also, I do know that this is insanely unlikely, to the point of being borderline ASB, but this is a question out of curiosity if something like this did happen, an AHC as to how this realistically could occur.

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

I can see the Pope telling them "Bravo! Bravo! Now leave us the Iberian Peninsula and start again in North Africa as far as Jerusalem." 😛

 

[Abd ar-Rahman II]

Okay, so this is sort of a weird fucking question to ask, but I was playing Crusader Kings 3 as Waldensians in Iberia (I'm not good, I didn't even come close to taking anything over), and I sort of started wondering something

If this were real life and not a game with a set of programmed but somewhat randomized responses, how would the Papacy and the Catholic Church react if a Heretical sect of Christianity somehow managed to retake Iberia from the Moors? Something like Catharism or Waldensianism or Arnoldists (yes, I did get this list from Wikipedia, and I specifically avoided heretical movements far away from Iberia (such as Tondrakians) or localized in their goals (Lollards)). I know it'd be very different based on which heretical sect took over Iberia, but I'm asking what the general feeling would be likely to be

Also, I do know that this is insanely unlikely, to the point of being borderline ASB, but this is a question out of curiosity if something like this did happen, an AHC as to how this realistically could occur.

i kind of see the Papacy seeing the Heretical Christian sect Iberia as more threatening than the moors because they would actually be political rival for them but that just my opinion and i’m no expert

 

[CastIron]

If a heresy got so widespread that it not only converted enough of the nobility and clergy to effectively replace the Catholic Church in any part of Medieval Christendom, let alone conquering Iberia, I think you'd be looking at something similar to the Reformation or Great Schism, depending on the heresy. If it is one that is interested in reforming the Church, a Reformation-esque event may happen where Iberia is a center for a wider movement to challenge the Catholic Church, but may end up creating a break in Christianity. Even with the prestige and resources of Iberia they would be against essentially fighting the rest of the Catholic world.

If they are more concerned with internal affairs, i.e. ensuring the morality and piety of their realm, I'd wager that they would be isolated from assistance and once the Moors regrouped in Morocco under one of the more zealous dynasties (think the Almohads) they would face a serious challenge from the south. Without any assistance from the rest of the Christian world, I don't know how long a heretical Iberia would last, especially if it started to lose significant territory to a resurgent Moorish dynasty. The French may look to expand across the Pyrenees, too.

 

[Ellis MacVey]

If a heresy got so widespread that it not only converted enough of the nobility and clergy to effectively replace the Catholic Church in any part of Medieval Christendom, let alone conquering Iberia, I think you'd be looking at something similar to the Reformation or Great Schism, depending on the heresy. If it is one that is interested in reforming the Church, a Reformation-esque event may happen where Iberia is a center for a wider movement to challenge the Catholic Church, but may end up creating a break in Christianity. Even with the prestige and resources of Iberia they would be against essentially fighting the rest of the Catholic world.

If they are more concerned with internal affairs, i.e. ensuring the morality and piety of their realm, I'd wager that they would be isolated from assistance and once the Moors regrouped in Morocco under one of the more zealous dynasties (think the Almohads) they would face a serious challenge from the south. Without any assistance from the rest of the Christian world, I don't know how long a heretical Iberia would last, especially if it started to lose significant territory to a resurgent Moorish dynasty. The French may look to expand across the Pyrenees, too.

Making Iberia into a perpetual war between Muslims and Christians that can never and will never resolve to own the Waldensians

 

[Dan Handsome]

Papacy applauds them, then calls a crusade a century later. This is assuming they're not threatening to the papacy. They could threaten Rome, however, seeing as how their crusade succeeded where the Pope's failed.

 

[Ellis MacVey]

Papacy applauds them, then calls a crusade a century later. This is assuming they're not threatening to the papacy. They could threaten Rome, however, seeing as how their crusade succeeded where the Pope's failed.

So the opposite of what happened with the Orthodox?

 

[Falecius]

Keep in mind that, in a sense, the Moors were the heretical Christian sect taking over Iberia in the perspective of many in the Medieval Roman Curia.

 

[Osman Aga]

Okay, so this is sort of a weird fucking question to ask, but I was playing Crusader Kings 3 as Waldensians in Iberia (I'm not good, I didn't even come close to taking anything over), and I sort of started wondering something

If this were real life and not a game with a set of programmed but somewhat randomized responses, how would the Papacy and the Catholic Church react if a Heretical sect of Christianity somehow managed to retake Iberia from the Moors? Something like Catharism or Waldensianism or Arnoldists (yes, I did get this list from Wikipedia, and I specifically avoided heretical movements far away from Iberia (such as Tondrakians) or localized in their goals (Lollards)). I know it'd be very different based on which heretical sect took over Iberia, but I'm asking what the general feeling would be likely to be

Also, I do know that this is insanely unlikely, to the point of being borderline ASB, but this is a question out of curiosity if something like this did happen, an AHC as to how this realistically could occur.

The Pope would send the French to fight the heretics rather than fighting Saracens. Assuming they grow fast in Iberia. If they remain small and irrelevant they will support them in hope to bring them within the fold of the Roman Church.