Presidents of the Confederate States

[Darth_Kiryan]

indeed, you don't become a general without having some kind of political instincts. Lee, for whatever his personal dislike of politicians, had political instincts, indeed, he might have even entered post-bellum confederate politics as the only alternative to a true politician like Breckinridge.

Even Washington played politics. Hell, he had to, hell he was playing politics in 1754 just to get a damn red coat commission. and although Lee revered Washington to the bone, and tried to emulate him in everyway, even i do not see him as taking the Presidency.

After the war he wanted to fade away, which is why he accepted the Washington college position.

 

[AdmiralBlake]

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[Fiver]

Lee is highly unlikely as the second president of the CSA. He was not only disinterested in politics, but was tired after the war and would probably have just wanted to enjoy his retirement.

Also, if the Confederacy gains independence, it will almost certainly need to produce at least one general who equals or exceeds Lee in battlefield success. Rather Lee being than clear standout, credit for success will be divided or might even go to another man.

Breckinridge is a far more likely candidate as Davis's immediate successor..

He's probably the best choice as well.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Also, if the Confederacy gains independence, it will almost certainly need to produce at least one general who equals or exceeds Lee in battlefield success. Rather Lee being than clear standout, credit for success will be divided or might even go to another man.

True. My bets are its spread amongst men like Jeb Stuart, Jackson, Albert S. Johnston (if he survives, and if he does that's a plus for the Confederacy) and James Longstreet.

If Lee was going to put his skills to good use anywhere in a surviving Confederacy it would be teaching the new generation of officers.

He's probably the best choice as well.

He also has the incalculable advantage of being a successful politician, has a flair for speaking, organization, and pre-existing popularity in the South from before the war.

He also won almost every state which would secede save for Tennessee and Virginia in 1860, I think that gives him a bit of an advantage.

 

[AdmiralBlake]

ok then, so its

1861-1868: Jefferson Davis (Democrat)
1868-1873: John C. Breckinridge (Democrat)
1873-1874: Unknown (Democrat)
1874-1880: Unknown (Democrat)
1880-1886: James Longstreet (Whig)

id think Breckinridge would probably die a couple of years earlier than OTL, the stress of being president would probably shorten his life a little

what next then? who would be Breckinridges veep? and who would serve 1874-1880?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

ok then, so its

1861-1868: Jefferson Davis (Democrat)
1868-1873: John C. Breckinridge (Democrat)
1873-1874: Unknown (Democrat)
1874-1880: Unknown (Democrat)
1880-1886: James Longstreet (Whig)

id think Breckinridge would probably die a couple of years earlier than OTL, the stress of being president would probably shorten his life a little

what next then? who would be Breckinridges veep? and who would serve 1874-1880?

I'd think he would probably live on, he handled the stress of war and exile pretty well, it might even avoid the strained health that killed him. Though for his VP my bet would be Reagan since he was one of Davis's most capable Cabinet members, and being from the West he avoids the impression that Davis cabinet made of being pro-Eastern states. Though then again he might adopt a Virginian to stop looking pro-West.

After him I guess it would depend on the political situation, the fire eaters would certainly feel marginalized by this point so they'd try to make a come back. Maybe they'd put up Beauregard as a candidate? Or John Pettus, he was a fairly successful politician with some not awful credentials. Though they could also try Edmund Pettus, he had a nasty reputation and fit their sort of profile perfectly.

 

[AdmiralBlake]

I'd think he would probably live on, he handled the stress of war and exile pretty well, it might even avoid the strained health that killed him. Though for his VP my bet would be Reagan since he was one of Davis's most capable Cabinet members, and being from the West he avoids the impression that Davis cabinet made of being pro-Eastern states. Though then again he might adopt a Virginian to stop looking pro-West.

After him I guess it would depend on the political situation, the fire eaters would certainly feel marginalized by this point so they'd try to make a come back. Maybe they'd put up Beauregard as a candidate? Or John Pettus, he was a fairly successful politician with some not awful credentials. Though they could also try Edmund Pettus, he had a nasty reputation and fit their sort of profile perfectly.

there would probably be a Virginian in there somewhere, seeing as it was the wealthiest and largest (as there is no west Virginia) state in the confederacy

what capable Virginians in the 1870s are there?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Well you've got civil war veteran James L. Kemper (who governed Virginia from 1874-1878 OTL) civil war veteran and long time political success story William Smith who lead his state to secession. Then there's Robert Hunter who was the pro tempore of the Confederate Senate amongst other postings.

 

[AdmiralBlake]

Well you've got civil war veteran James L. Kemper (who governed Virginia from 1874-1878 OTL) civil war veteran and long time political success story William Smith who lead his state to secession. Then there's Robert Hunter who was the pro tempore of the Confederate Senate amongst other postings.

all good possibilities

are their any other Virginians who would likely become president (any time not, not just 1868-80)?

ive got Fitzhugh Lee, Woodrow Wilson and Harry F. Byrd down so far

 

[Anaxagoras]

indeed, you don't become a general without having some kind of political instincts. Lee, for whatever his personal dislike of politicians, had political instincts, indeed, he might have even entered post-bellum confederate politics as the only alternative to a true politician like Breckinridge.

Lee admired Breckinridge enormously and thought he was one of the great men of the Confederacy. He would have had no desire to serve as an "alternative" to him.

 

[AdmiralBlake]

Lee admired Breckinridge enormously and thought he was one of the great men of the Confederacy. He would have had no desire to serve as an "alternative" to him.

i didn't know that, thanks for telling me

ill have Breckenridge win in 1867 though

but i still need ideas for the whole 1874-1934 period, anyone?

 

[AdmiralBlake]

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[Fiver]

True. My bets are its spread amongst men like Jeb Stuart, Jackson, Albert S. Johnston (if he survives, and if he does that's a plus for the Confederacy) and James Longstreet.

Longstreet was one of the Confederacy's best, but he was also beaten by Burnside. Jackson could be very good, but he could also be very bad, like during the Seven Days. AS Johnston was out of his depth at Shiloh; I consider him one of the most over-rated generals of the war. Stuart did well commanding infantry when Jackson was wounded.

My bets would be spread among Stuart, Longstreet, Nathan Bedford Forrest, PGT Beauregard, Wade Hampton, DH Hill, Richard Ewell, and John Breckinridge.

He also has the incalculable advantage of being a successful politician, has a flair for speaking, organization, and pre-existing popularity in the South from before the war.

He also won almost every state which would secede save for Tennessee and Virginia in 1860, I think that gives him a bit of an advantage.

And in a timeline with successful Confederate independence, Breckinridge probably has a track record of military success.

 

[AdmiralBlake]

And in a timeline with successful Confederate independence, Breckinridge probably has a track record of military success.

yes, given more consideration, I think he would be the most likely candidate in 1867

 

[Jonathan]

How about for the 1873-1874 post having General George Pickett, who is famous for the Pickett Charge which many say, helped the south win Battle of Gettysburg.

However a year and a half into office he died of a liver abscess, although whether it was amoebic or bacterial is not clear, but the President Physician said that the stress of the war and office caused the abscess to rapture early.
Succeeded by his Vice President John H. Reagan, Former Confederate States Secretary of the Treasury and Senator for Texas.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Article II, Section 1, Clause 7 of the Confederate States Constitution could be a bit problematic for Breckinridge:

No person except a natural-born citizen of the Confederate States, or a citizen thereof, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, or a citizen thereof born in the United States prior to the 20th of December, 1860, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the limits of the Confederate States, as they may exist at the time of his election.

Breckinridge wasn't "fourteen years a resident within the limits of the Confederate States" in 1867, as he remained loyal to the Union at first and didn't flee to the Confederacy until late 1861.

This is one of those things that might be ignored, but it also might be brought up by a political opponent who didn't want to see Breckinridge elected (and there would have been some among the Fire-Eaters).

Spoiler alert: This is a minor subplot of House of the Proud, which is the sequel to Shattered Nation that I am currently working on.

 

[bguy]

Breckinridge wasn't "fourteen years a resident within the limits of the Confederate States" in 1867, as he remained loyal to the Union at first and didn't flee to the Confederacy until late 1861.

That clause seems to mean that you have to have 14 years of residency within one of the states that makes up the Confederate States. (Otherwise no one would be eligible to be elected Confederate President in 1867.) And the Confederates considered Kentucky to be one of the Confederate states. As such unless they specifically abandon their claim on Kentucky as part of the peace treaty with the US, Breckinridge should be eligible. He was born in the United States before December 20, 1860, he's over 35, and he has 14 years as a resident of Kentucky which would be considered (by the Confederates at least) to be within the limits of the Confederate States in 1867.

 

[AdmiralBlake]

That clause seems to mean that you have to have 14 years of residency within one of the states that makes up the Confederate States. (Otherwise no one would be eligible to be elected Confederate President in 1867.) And the Confederates considered Kentucky to be one of the Confederate states. As such unless they specifically abandon their claim on Kentucky as part of the peace treaty with the US, Breckinridge should be eligible. He was born in the United States before December 20, 1860, he's over 35, and he has 14 years as a resident of Kentucky which would be considered (by the Confederates at least) to be within the limits of the Confederate States in 1867.

yes, ive got Kentucky as a confederate state, and re-reading that clause, I would interpret it as meaning he is eligible to stand, but I could see why you could interpret it either way

he would be the most accomplished politician in the confederacy though, and practically all of the south voted for him in 1860 anyway, so he would have political legitimacy as a candidate

 

[AdmiralBlake]

How about for the 1873-1874 post having General George Pickett, who is famous for the Pickett Charge which many say, helped the south win Battle of Gettysburg.

However a year and a half into office he died of a liver abscess, although whether it was amoebic or bacterial is not clear, but the President Physician said that the stress of the war and office caused the abscess to rapture early.
Succeeded by his Vice President John H. Reagan, Former Confederate States Secretary of the Treasury and Senator for Texas.

trouble is pickett is a soldier not a politician, and never seems to have shown the slightest interest in politics.

 

[AdmiralBlake]

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