The Vietnamese declaration of independence was a copy of the American and OSS supported his group during WWII. Some have said it's American mismanagement that drove him into the communist camp. Is it in any way possible to having him joining the American camp or beeing neutral enough to avoid cold war problems?
Possibility Check: Ho Chi Minh in the American Camp
- Thread starter Berra
- Start date
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Well, you need the Frenchies to willingly give up Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh was more a nationalist than a Communist, went Commie to get USSR support. US would never support Vietnamese rebels over the French, so you really need to change the French.
Dan Reilly The Great
Banned
What if you had the dunkirk evacuation fail? If there are no free french forces in WWII then you have France even more idebted to the Allies than they were OTL. Maybe make them act pompous and arrogant in spite of those events and Truman and Ike might not really care about keeping the French happy. Honestly I'm not sure why there was such interest in keeping them happy in the first place, what were they gonna do? Go communist?
Perhaps someone is perceptive and sees that American support for colonial governments will give the Soviets a larger degree of influence with anti-colonial movements, which would be a bad thing in the long term.
Thing is, how to convince France to play ball?
Thing is, how to convince France to play ball?
It's unlikely given that the USA usually, if not always, supports a corrupt anti-communist government over a left wing nationalist movement.
We often see Ho Chi Minh as a nationalist turning to Communism because of lack of western support but this is only part of the picture. It was also a part of the infighting. Remember, Ho was still a member of the Communist International and the Viet Minh independence movement, which was the only major, organized, anti-Japanese resistance movement in Vietnam, was isecretly controlled by the stalinist Indochinese Communist Party.
A more reasonable PoD would be to have Ho Chi Minh more actively voice his opposition to the Soviet-German Non-Agression Pact (he didn't like it personally). You also need to change both the Indochinese Communist Party (to stop purging non-Stalinsts) and the Viet Minh (in OTL there were actually multiple rival 'Viet Minhs'). Loosen ICP control of the Viet Minh. Stop the infighting for both to include a more diverse front. If Communists are still dominant, then just allign with Yugoslavia or Western Communists rather than the Soviets.
FDR is also going to have to live longer and be more willing to piss off the French and British. Getting a more agressive, but Soviet-loyal, China will help immensely.
We often see Ho Chi Minh as a nationalist turning to Communism because of lack of western support but this is only part of the picture. It was also a part of the infighting. Remember, Ho was still a member of the Communist International and the Viet Minh independence movement, which was the only major, organized, anti-Japanese resistance movement in Vietnam, was isecretly controlled by the stalinist Indochinese Communist Party.
A more reasonable PoD would be to have Ho Chi Minh more actively voice his opposition to the Soviet-German Non-Agression Pact (he didn't like it personally). You also need to change both the Indochinese Communist Party (to stop purging non-Stalinsts) and the Viet Minh (in OTL there were actually multiple rival 'Viet Minhs'). Loosen ICP control of the Viet Minh. Stop the infighting for both to include a more diverse front. If Communists are still dominant, then just allign with Yugoslavia or Western Communists rather than the Soviets.
FDR is also going to have to live longer and be more willing to piss off the French and British. Getting a more agressive, but Soviet-loyal, China will help immensely.
Fearless Leader
Donor
Perhaps this could come about by having a personal fall out between FDR and De Gaulle? Let's say that someone offs General Giraud (The preferred American candidate for the leadership of the Free French) in 1942, leaving De Gaulle the sole candidate for leading the Free French. Now FDR isn't too happy about this and as a result is far less likely to support the restoration of French colonial rule in Indochina.
I think it was Truman who said he'd "rather sniff French shit for 10 years than eat Chinese shit for 100".
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=82030&highlight=vietnam+independance
Just get this original agreement to stay in effect, and the US can cheerfully support Uncle Ho against the Communist Chinese...
Just get this original agreement to stay in effect, and the US can cheerfully support Uncle Ho against the Communist Chinese...
Roosevelt detested De Gaulle, and IOTL, he actually did promise aid to Ho Chih Minh in the aftermath of the war. His death, however, prevented this from happening and put Truman, who ignored HCM's pleas for assistance, in power. So you probably either need Roosevelt to live longer (he's not going to have any qualms about pissing off the British or French on colonial problems), or for Truman simply to come to HCM's aid, rather than ignore him.